RE: HEALTH CARE (Full Version)

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Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/27/2009 6:38:16 PM)

I remember reading this story last year.

August 4, 2008, 9:15 AM ET

Los Angeles Bars Hospitals from Dumping Homeless Patients
Health insurers aren’t the only ones whose behavior is under a microscope in California. In Los Angeles, a new city ordinance makes it a misdemeanor for health facilities to transport a patient to a place other than his or her residence without written consent, the WSJ reports.

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/08/04/los-angeles-bars-hospitals-from-dumping-homeless-patients/






mcbride -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/27/2009 7:24:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride


No, willbeurdaddy, I won't. I'm putting up facts, and correcting your errors, for the sake of Americans who may be a bit uncertain, not for you. You're obviously not even reading the material you're posting, let alone the simple facts I've pointed out. 

You evidently think readers will be confused if you obfuscate. I'm happy to let them decide.



Look, mcwhatever. Your numbers are wrong, period.



Mcwhatever?  Ho, ho, ho. You wit, you.
  Anyone with an open mind on health care will see that my numbers, and all the other real numbers, show the serious disparity between the two countries.   Were you thinking that anyone who’s looking for the facts on health care will disregard evidence simply because someone with your track record announces that it’s “wrong”?
  I’m not sure they’ll find that very helpful in moving the United States toward a decent, equitable health care system.
  Every time someone posts more simple evidence of the disparities, (did we mention that some of India’s poorest states have better infant mortality than the US? Oh, yes, we did.) you try to draw the debate into some obscure little backwater.
  While you’re there, could you post some numbers, or any evidence at all, on your assertion blaming those awful infant mortality stats on pre-natal care?  I know Arpig is curious.



mcbride -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/27/2009 7:37:51 PM)

By way of comparison...

It's not that we're any better...it's that we lucked into a better system, in which it makes sense to see to it that everyone gets care....as reported by American media.

Caring for homeless helps Canada hold down health care costs
http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1019809.ece



Arpig -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/27/2009 7:56:04 PM)

I think the real issue that needs to be discussed is not if the Canadian (or Norwegian, or Botswanan) health care system is better or worse, what should be at issue is if the present plan before Congress is any good. As much as I favour the single-payer model, I think it would be better to not pass a bill that will only further entrench the insurance companies' stranglehold over the delivery of health care in the US. The fact that they are supporting the present bill should give everyone pause....if they are for it, then how on earth can it be good for the consumer? If they support this bill, it is because they see in it the opportunity for more profits, otherwise they would oppose it like they have done every time this issue is addressed.
The more I learn about how the US government works, with its K street payoffs and strong-arm tactics, the more I realise that nobody has the goods on the US when it comes to political corruption. What a crazy ass system!



willbeurdaddy -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 11:57:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
That only goes to show how little you know about health care. Of course it costs money to go to an ER! I think the average ER bill is around $800 or so.


And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.

What law would that be Willbeur?

The laws of 50 states.


Nope, sorry.

What law says you do not have to pay for ER treatment?



I repeat, every state has such a law. EMTALA also prohibits it.



Lorr47 -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 11:59:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
It's infected now. I don't have the money to go to the ER any more than I did a month ago.

It doesnt cost any money to go to the ER.


That only goes to show how little you know about health care. Of course it costs money to go to an ER! I think the average ER bill is around $800 or so.




Willbuerdaddy do you live in the US? 

Yes, those who do not have a family doctor can routinely go to a emergency room.  Is it free?  No.  In fact, many times it is more expensive.  But, who pays the bill.  If a person goes to the emergency room with the intention of not paying  the bill and is not collectible, yes the hospital or whatever eats the bill.  However, if a person is collectible, the hospital will sue him for services rendered.

What really burns me up is the amount billed to a person versus an insurer.  My wife went to the emergency room.  The medical care generated a series of bills that totaled about $80,000.  I proved that the bills were in fact  covered by insurance.  The hospital sent me copies of the payments from the insurance company that satisfied the line items  in the original bill.

The $40,000 portion owed to the hospital as a hospital was satisfied by a payment of $9,000.  A important doctor's bill of $20,000 was satisfied by a payment of $4,000.  And according to nurses, this goes on all the time.  Hospitals and insurers bill and accept payments in amounts that are substantially less than what an uninsured person sees.  If an insurer crows, we paid $250,000 for your medical care it usually has not paid even $100.000.  The big bills are only seen by the patient.  It is an entirely different world between hospital and insurer.  Insurers hate to see me coming.  I sue them for the amount billed.  If the patient wins I insist that the monies be disbursed by me.  Oh, they squeal.  Several of the insurers went to the hospitals asking that they be paid the difference between the amount I sent the hospital and the amount they usually paid.  The hospitals refused.  I guess that there is no honor among thieves  I do not know if this happens elsewhere but up here it pisses me off.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 12:09:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
That only goes to show how little you know about health care. Of course it costs money to go to an ER! I think the average ER bill is around $800 or so.


And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.

What law would that be Willbeur?

The laws of 50 states.


Nope, sorry.

What law says you do not have to pay for ER treatment?



I repeat, every state has such a law. EMTALA also prohibits it.


Then it shouldn't be that difficult for you to find just one link to a law that says people are not required to pay for emergency care.

Or, you could just man up and admit you had no clue what you were talking about. Again.



rulemylife -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 12:38:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

I repeat, every state has such a law. EMTALA also prohibits it.


Well, stop repeating yourself, you'll just wear out your keyboard.

How about some proof for a change.

Here, I'll help you out.

This is the full text of EMTALA, so show me where it says that ER patients are not responsible for their medical bills.

Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act -- EMTALA Full Text



Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 12:41:31 PM)

He can’t do it because there are no links. I just looked and I can’t find any and I’m not wasting any more time looking for something that doesn’t exist.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 1:46:36 PM)

Perhaps you should both read what I wrote, instead of looking for strawmen to tear down.

I said you cannot be denied treatment because of inability to pay. I didnt say that you arent repsonsible for your bills after the treatment is given. Now if you really need me to connect the dots, as liberals are so fond of saying, if you got the care and truly are unable to pay, then being "responsible for your bills" is meaningless, unless they reinstated debtors prisons while I wasnt looking.

"Hospital officials and physicians we interviewed generally agreed that
EMTALA has an important purpose—to ensure that no one is denied
emergency medical care because of lack of insurance or an inability to
pay. Hospitals and physicians told us that EMTALA has helped to ensure
access to emergency services by reducing the incidence of patient
dumping. In addition, they said EMTALA has made it easier for hospitals
to ensure that physicians who participate in on-call panels come to the
hospital when asked and enabled managed care beneficiaries to receive
care without waiting for hospitals to seek prior authorization."

GAO Report to Congress on EMTALA

oregon

new york

california

Texas




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 1:57:44 PM)

quote:

And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Perhaps you should both read what I wrote, instead of looking for strawmen to tear down.

I said you cannot be denied treatment because of inability to pay. I didnt say that you arent repsonsible for your bills after the treatment is given.


Yeah you did.

quote:

And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 2:02:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Perhaps you should both read what I wrote, instead of looking for strawmen to tear down.

I said you cannot be denied treatment because of inability to pay. I didnt say that you arent repsonsible for your bills after the treatment is given.


Yeah you did.

quote:

And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.





Still cant connect the dots eh? One more time...if you dont have the inability to pay, the law cant make you pay.



Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 2:03:29 PM)

Susan Bayh an issue in fight over health care

In 2 years, she earned $2.1M on health company boards

http://www.indystar.com/article/20090726/NEWS05/907260351/Susan%20Bayh%20an%20issue%20in%20fight%20over%20health%20care



rulemylife -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 2:15:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Perhaps you should both read what I wrote, instead of looking for strawmen to tear down.

I said you cannot be denied treatment because of inability to pay. I didnt say that you arent repsonsible for your bills after the treatment is given.


Perhaps you should.

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
That only goes to show how little you know about health care. Of course it costs money to go to an ER! I think the average ER bill is around $800 or so.


And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.



rulemylife -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 2:21:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Still cant connect the dots eh? One more time...if you dont have the inability to pay, the law cant make you pay.


Yes, one more time, the inability to pay (which by the way is yet another sidestep from your original claim) has nothing to do with your legal obligation to pay it.

And you can bet your ass that the laws will support the doctors and hospitals in their collection efforts and any subsequent lawsuits if they think there is a chance of collecting.



Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 2:23:24 PM)

The Baucus Bill's Bad Math
by Nate Silver @ 10:16 PM

So there's not a public option in the Finance Committee's bill -- which should come as no great surprise to anyone who's been following this debate. Instead, there's Kent Conrad's plan for regional, non-profit cooperatives. The real fight over the public option will take place when the HELP Committee's bill, which does include a public option, is reconciled with the Finance Committee's version, and/or when the Senate's version is ultimately reconciled with the House version.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/07/baucus-bills-bad-math.html



Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 2:41:24 PM)

Health Policy Is Carved Out at Table for 6 　
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN and ROBERT PEAR

Published: July 27, 2009

WASHINGTON — On the agenda is the revamping of the American health care system, possibly the most complex legislation in modern history. But on the table, in a conference room where the bill is being hashed out by six senators, the snacks are anything but healthy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/us/politics/28baucus.html?_r=1&th&emc=th



Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 2:53:07 PM)

Jury Finds for Florida Hospital in Case of Guatemalan Patient - NYTimes.com

By DEBORAH SONTAG
A Florida jury said a hospital did not act unreasonably when it repatriated a brain-injured Guatemalan patient.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/us/28deport.html?th&emc=th



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 3:18:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Perhaps you should both read what I wrote, instead of looking for strawmen to tear down.

I said you cannot be denied treatment because of inability to pay. I didnt say that you arent repsonsible for your bills after the treatment is given.


Yeah you did.

quote:

And an individual isnt required to pay for it by law.





Still cant connect the dots eh? One more time...if you dont have the inability to pay, the law cant make you pay.


"Make" you? In what sense? Hold a gun to your wife's head and threaten to blow her brains out if you don't pay?

No, you're right. They can't do that. But you are legally liable to pay the bill. So your claim that the individual isn't required to pay is complete bullshit.



Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/28/2009 4:26:15 PM)

In case anybody missed this, it’s hilarious and at the end he talks about healthcare.



Real Time with Bill Maher New Rules July 24 2009


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1pP8WBY-x0&feature=PlayList&p=8AF302ADE03C97C3&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=3#




Overtime July 24 2009 Bill Maher Real Time 09 07


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7B5OKLllAw&feature=PlayList&p=8AF302ADE03C97C3&index=4&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL


Bill Maher for his radical movement


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06hUOuHuRuI&feature=PlayList&p=8AF302ADE03C97C3&index=5&playnext=3&playnext_from=PL



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