RE: Life on Lifes Terms

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: Life on Lifes Terms

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Life on Lifes Terms

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/20/2009 6:00:39 PM

slavegirlbc

Posts: 22
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline

i think it is great post, Steel, and a great springboard for discussion

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Profile

Post #: 21

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/20/2009 6:19:57 PM

krikket

Posts: 1183
Joined: 11/17/2004
From: Washington, DC Metro Area
Status: offline

..and cows remind me of another story (did you think your post would lead us to cows, Steel? giggles) of someone who constantly does exactly the same action the same way every day expecting a different result than the one he/she got the day before. In my mind, this applies to cheating, test tubes and chemistry experiments, playing a game of chess, or any other of the varied activities we load our lives down with. My belief is that we cannot make someone change, we cannot even make ourselves change unless we ourselves want that change. Only once we've either accepted our lives as they are, or made that change we wanted, are we then able to go about finding someone who fits into our lives. If we already have someone in our lives, i believe that we need to talk, communicate, talk and communicate some more with them so reach a place that both are comfortable. If that's not possible, i also believe that it's up to the one who wants to change "horses in mid-stream" that needs to figure how what and how to do. Cheating is never, ever an option for me. i've been both cheated on and, because i turned a blind eye and saw/believed what i wanted to, aided and abetted the cheater (but not for long..lol).

Thanks for the lovely thought provoking thread. :)

_____________________________

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom."

by A. Nin

When your heart speaks take good notes.

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Profile

Post #: 22

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/20/2009 6:22:26 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I try very hard to live life on lifes terms.

I don't but I don't think that is your point.

I think the answers to your question is in your own post.

Two people marry both proclaiming they are vanilla. If one can "discover" they are kinky...they changed, if they can, so can others.

I was vanilla most of my life, I "changed" and became a dominant. The only woman to ever wear my collar told me in a bittersweet moment that she knew that one day I would be an amazing dominant but knew we would not be able to get there together, that we didn't have the skills or the timing, and that too much emotional destruction had passed between us.

I changed, so much so that BSB could not even believe I had once been such an asshole. She changed too, a LOT.

The trick is to know that the rock you are trying to cut into a precious stone is indeed a jem and not just a rock. So, while I didn't have a vanilla girlfriend trying to turn me into a decent dominant, I had a wonderful slave who tried and failed. Took me a long time to get wherever it is I am today.

Most of humanity goes through life blind, lying to themselves about who and what they are. For anyone who remembers Elvira, she was a suburban housewife and did her role in secret from her husband. Bet he could have "changed" her into a kinky woman without much work.

How many here spent a major portion of their life vanilla? Imagine if two of those people hooked up and then years later discovered they were kinky or at least into D/s? Oh wait, that would describe Leadership527 and his lovely wife Carol! Or Beth of Merc n Beth...she was vanilla before.

Hell, the woman I spoke of above who wore my collar, she got into BDSM only because she was relating to her friend how she liked men who were jerks and her friend told her she should date dominants. Bingo, a brand new kinkster was born.

So, I don't blame people for trying to "change" someone, but if the person doesn't want to or isn't ready, it is silly to get pissed off. You make your choice, stay or leave, and get on with it.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Profile

Post #: 23

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/20/2009 6:39:31 PM

autoRelease

Posts: 69
Joined: 6/22/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

What are life's terms? Fulfillment comes from the only place it is ever felt -- one's very own heart.

Everything else is a Rube Goldberg mechanism to compensate for ignoring the essential truth of one's own everpresent source of fulfillment and love.

Chasing external fulfillment alone is mere shadow boxing. External pleasure is an expression of fulfillment, not the source.

Fulfillment cannot be given or taken away. It can only be shared. Learn the simplicity of what you already have in your heart, and the external chaos becomes far less significant.

Beautiful post! I love the way you put that.

(in reply to aldompdx)

Profile

Post #: 24

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/20/2009 7:35:54 PM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12

The original post reminded me of cows.

I grew up on a dairy farm - and on any given day you could see a cow, with its neck through the barbed wire fence reaching for the grass just out of its reach, all the while ignoring the grass it was standing in.

A lot of humans are that way. Once they have reached a desired goal they want something else.

The way I've heard it said is that desire is infinite. I suppose that's why advertising works so well. I wonder about that. Why do we always want more?

(in reply to kiwisub12)

Profile

Post #: 25

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/20/2009 7:45:03 PM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

You can't change the nature of a person. You can cultivate something that is already there and encourage it to flourish but you can't put something into the core values of a person that just isn't already there,

Yes you can.....

Otherwise......

A fair proportion of Germans are innate Nazis and....

A fair proportion of Americans are innate racists and.....

A fair proportion of English take pleasure in subjugating other people....

You really can change the values of people far easier than what you think - though this isn't something that people like to admit to themselves because it then begs the questions: "what exactly is my purpose where I have no inner self?"

"A man's a man, is Herr Brecht's contention..."

That was a good play. But anyway, at the risk of sounding kind of silly, what is wrong with having no inner self? I've never particularly missed it (nor noticed a lack of sense of purpose for that matter). But I'll change most values I hold at the drop of a hat, if it will please the right person.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Profile

Post #: 26

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/20/2009 8:12:28 PM

Delphinus

Posts: 146
Joined: 11/26/2008
Status: offline

"I find in this lifestyle we so often try to change the other person and are generally steadfast on not changing ourselves."

I think that, inside or outside of BDSM, if one isn't open to changing oneself, then he or she hasn't met the right person. Best for them to remain steadfast and move on until they find the person that touches them more deeply. It's best for both parties.

"Often we sit back and wonder why what we have isn't good enough, we seek out the instant gratification"

But at what point does accepting what we have become complacency? (My third time saying something like this on the boards, now. It's a favorite of mine - I'm sure I'll say it again.) And possibly, the "instant gratification" is simply the only way one knows how to cope with his/her search for something more. It may not be right, but many people do stupid and hurtful things when feeling lost and confused.

"The person is literally only 20% of what you want but having not gotten that 20% for so long it looks awfully good. However if you were to look back and really see what you get from one that you don't get from the other you will see making that change is always taking a lesser option."

Hmmm. The rules and boundaries of a typical monogamous relationship are placed by man. They work for us because they are what we know, what we are comfortable with, and what our society is built on and intertwined with. I am subject to the same comforts found in a typical relationship and I know I can't go willy nilly following my sex drive wherever it takes me, but only because logistically it is irresponsible and goes against the societal norms that I have so ingrained in me, not because it's inherently the wrong thing to do. If I thought long enough about it, I might consider man to have cheated himself out of the ability to truly follow one's whim because of the long standing tradition (however necessary to survival it may be or have been) of a responsibility to uphold a moral code that maybe was never the intention for us as beings in the first place.

....done, realizing this may have nothing to do with anything, but there ya go.

_____________________________

"Silly bitch."

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Profile

Post #: 27

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/20/2009 9:36:00 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

Excuse the hijack, but I can't access actual mail.

So, Steel...... Got any recommendations for a good place to eat in this town other than this Denny's that I'm looking at just off of exit eight?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Profile

Post #: 28

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/20/2009 10:30:49 PM

Elousia

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/5/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal
The way I've heard it said is that desire is infinite. I suppose that's why advertising works so well. I wonder about that. Why do we always want more?

I think it is because desire is much like knowledge.
The more one learns, the more one understands how much is yet unknown.

And the more one has desire fulfilled, the more it awakens the awareness of the desires that follow upon the one that met its fulfilment.

Just a thought...

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Profile

Post #: 29

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/20/2009 11:30:10 PM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

There is a big difference between being single or in a relationship with somebody.

Some people have this "I don't have to change" attitude that is not reality. Being in a relationship with somebody changes your life on various levels, BOTH parties have to make ADJUSTMENTS and CHANGES in their lives.

Again there is a big difference between being single and in a relationship.

There is nothing wrong expecting a certain amount of change in your partner, and there is nothing wrong with you making some changes. It's a bit of a two way street.

Both Dom and submissive both have to make changes in their life, or any two people.

People tend to change over time as well.

At times it appears that some people need to go back to "Vanilla Hut" and drink their CRAPacino's single and alone at table.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 7/20/2009 11:42:53 PM >

(in reply to slavegirlbc)

Profile

Post #: 30

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/21/2009 12:59:55 AM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

LP Check your Mail How long you in the STG for ?

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Profile

Post #: 31

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/21/2009 2:19:56 AM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

So, I don't blame people for trying to "change" someone, but if the person doesn't want to or isn't ready, it is silly to get pissed off. You make your choice, stay or leave, and get on with it.

At last I think I am beginning to undertsnd what you are saying... and it has taken a while.
I agreed with much of what you said but have isolated this part....
simply to say that I always, yes always change, when I am in relationship to someone.It's an empathy process. It's my submission process. It's a kind of morphing feeling.
I have spoken to other submissives I know and they have expressed the same kind of experience. Recently, as the relationship ended I felt like an oil tanker trying to change direction in mid-Atlantic... in other words the track of change I had been on to please my Master...well I was still changing, still moving in his direction. It didn't help the grieving process at all.
I have always been like this. regardless of whether the relationship was vanilla or otherwise; changing to accommodate the relationship, to make my service better, to please more, to do more for when asked, to work harder, to communicate better. What I have learned is that not everyone wants a woman to change in this way. That can be confusing.

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Profile

Post #: 32

RE: Life on Life's Terms - 7/21/2009 7:27:57 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Or Beth of Merc n Beth...she was vanilla before.

I can't speak of the other references, but sometimes access to information is a cause for personal identity. It difficult for people like me to reconcile access growing up in and around NYC; but isolated in Santa Maria, especially before the age of the internet, how would she know there was a label for her desires and fantasies? Include into the equation the local dating pool with similar background. she scared a lot of her dates, who on a kind day called her perverted and in need of "help"; bad days, they called her worse. In her case, her submission and loyalty were consistent, she did not seek fulfillment of her fantasies outside her relationship. she was convinced she was the freak her partners said she was. she was no more or less submissive than she is today. she had the same sexual desires and fantasies, played out in practically constant masturbatory episodes.

Suppose someday we get to Mars and discover some civilization living underground. We communicate; "You Martians are really cool!". They respond, "Martians? Who are Martians?" They didn't know we had a label for them. Did they become Martian? Discovery comes in all forms. In beth's case her discovery was similar. she discovered there was a label for her fantasies and desires, "submissive". Better yet - she discovered there were others having similar and complimentary fantasies. Best yet - she found ME!

she didn't evolve or change into a submissive. she didn't find herself. she found a name for herself. Fortunately she had the strength and confidence to seek out a complimentary partner. she didn't fear disclosure. she didn't fear exposure.

I think that is the noteworthy distinction. Most people live a life of denial and aversion to their 'self'. Worst case, people's aversion manifests itself in self loathing; the closeted republican homosexual who toe taps in a mens room immediately comes to mind. They can't help themselves because they hate themselves. Moderate cases, my ex for example, rationalize that they should try hard to comply with social 'norms'. They repress, become psychotic, and every few months await their mates naked under the covers with clover clamps on their nipples; waking up the next morning more psychotic suffering from regret hangover.

Whatever label assigned, self imposed or using some standardized chart, it is meaningless out of context. Steel's 80/20 is appropriate but in context it is only important if it represents living honestly. A life lived 80% true to yourself and 20% a lie - SUCKS! It sucks regardless of the value of the smaller number. Unless its 0% you're a fraud and a liar to the one person you should never lie to - your self. I don't know what my low number was prior to coming out to LA, but is sure wasn't zero. I compromised, lied, rationalized, and did my best to convince myself that 80% happiness was great and using my ex on those nights I found her naked wearing clamps fit into my self indulgent 'sadistic' label. Meanwhile I partied at my NYC apartment and at the clubs rationalizing that it wasn't cheating because she knew and "approved" of me indulging my, as she referred to them while jetting to our SF honeymoon, "juvenile kinky desires". We may have met at a party at Hellfire, but those times were behind us and we had a responsibility to live as society expected us - 'normal'. In retrospect, I was cheating big time. I was cheating myself. Too lazy to live as honestly as beth. From where I am now in my life, the amazing thing isn't that I did it, but that is somehow made sense!

By outside reference standards, sure, beth may have appeared 'vanilla'; but the reality is she was more lifestyle than I was. she was more honest, and had more self awareness and confidence.

Steel, the issues your observe aren't the result of selfishness, they are the results of fear. People fear exposing themselves, people fear accepting and living true to themselves, at least 100% of the time. As you site, people use all kinds of excuses to do so. People don't change. They discover, gain access and use that access. Is isn't the start of their problem, they really don't have a problem, but it is the start of their guilt; especially if they don't have a relationship with a partner who enables them to be comfortable with their discovery disclosure.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Profile

Post #: 33

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/21/2009 7:53:29 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

This is a really great post, Steel. I've had the pleasure of wandering through thought-gardens because of a couple of your posts, and this one is no exception.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Two people marry both proclaiming they are vanilla. If one can "discover" they are kinky...they changed, if they can, so can others.

People can, and do, change over time. However, you can't change someone -else- just because you want them to change or expect them to change or hope that they'll change or see their potential to change.

I spent a lot of my young life involving myself with people for their 'potential'. I'd see things about them that I thought were awesome, but which they didn't seem to recognize in themselves or exploit to "improve themselves" (as I saw it), so I would get involved with them, take them under my wing, spend weeks, months... even years (13 years for my ex!) counseling, advising, guiding, promoting, directing -- and, in the end, they did -exactly- what they wanted to do, and I would be pulling my -hair- out trying to figure out why they wouldn't see that I only wanted the best for them and just do what I wanted them to do.

Yes, I was an arrogant wench.

It took me years, and the ending of a marriage where I realized that he really didn't -want- to be that person I saw as his 'potential'. He was happy being who and what and how he was... and I was -miserable- with who he chose to be... he was miserable trying to make me stop making him into someone else... and it wasn't up to me to run his life. It took me about 19 years, total, to realize that I needed to see myself and others for who we -are-, not who I thought we -could- be, if we just changed X, Y, and Z. My ex knew, from day one, that I was poly and a 50/50 bi -- but that I was "playing nice" with him so that I wouldn't embarrass him in front of his parents. I realized that I was trying to turn -both- of us into something we weren't for a 'potential' that he didn't even -want-... and as I looked back, I realized that all of my relationships before this had been the same thing -- trying to shape the person into what I thought they -could- be... and stunting my own progress to try to keep them on -my- track. When I let go of my need to re-shape other people's lives according to what I saw for them, and just started involving myself with people for who they were, warts and all, I found an amazing capacity to love, and found that my poly nature -fit- with people just being themselves, because I didn't have to turn this -one- person into everything I needed... I had the joy of having different people, every one of them completely themselves, who each had a special, neat fit into what nourished me in their lives -- and where I fit neatly into the part of their lives that allowed me to be fully my self as well.

Yes... people can change, because they want to change within themselves, and that is the -only- way that significant personal change can happen. We can't force intrinsic change on others -- we may be able to make them change or hide their surface, but we won't be able to effect lasting change and may even chase them out of our lives if we try.

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 7/21/2009 8:07:47 AM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Profile

Post #: 34

RE: Life on Life's Terms - 7/21/2009 8:05:28 AM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
A life lived 80% true to yourself and 20% a lie - SUCKS! It sucks regardless of the value of the smaller number. Unless its 0% you're a fraud and a liar to the one person you should never lie to - your self.

A-Freakin-Men to that!! Took me a long time to learn that lesson, but wow.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Profile

Post #: 35

RE: Life on Lifes Terms - 7/21/2009 8:38:51 AM

maia09

Posts: 113
Joined: 6/10/2009
Status: offline

Thank you for a great post Steel. Somewhere it is written, i think in the Talmud - who is rich? He who is content with what he has. i agree. And i also think that choosing one's battles is another good phrase. So i practice these. i practice these because for some crazy reason the mind seems to find it easier to go negative than positive - mine does anyway and most people i've known have found this true as well.

_____________________________

She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.

"I will always be the virgin-prositute, the perverse angel, the two-faced sinister and saintly woman." - Anais Nin

Owned by Chairman

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Profile

Post #: 36

RE: Life on Life's Terms - 7/21/2009 8:39:15 AM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

I think the difference in all this is you can't change someone into something they are not. However, since many people are not being true to themselves, you can help them change into who they really are.

So perhaps it is a semantic issue.

You can't change someone into something they are not but you can help them discard who they are not and become who they really are.

I used to be a domineering asshole but deep down I was a nice guy who liked to tell women what to do. I have discarded the domineering part in favor of being dominant, and the asshole part, well that depends on who you ask.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Profile

Post #: 37

RE: Life on Life's Terms - 7/21/2009 9:15:39 AM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

I am so happy with where this thread has gone. I was worried in the beginning that the babbeling that was in my head would not translate well I have that problem sometimes, that and I can be long winded at times.

I am interested to see all the different views on things and I wish to address a few.

Change. I believe people are capable of change, I think people can even emulate change into something that they are not. I still do not believe that someone can change when the core value of what they seek to change is not there. I say this because I spent a large quantity of my life trying to change or emulate change because I wanted to be seen by others differently. The problem has always been I never really disliked the things I was trying to change. So they always stuck around and when I got tired of emulating something that on a core level I wasn't those things that I tried to fit into obscurity always managed to come slamming back in. I live by the idea that a Leopard cannot change it's spots no matter how badly it wants stripes because the spots are always there, sure this is a Physical manifestation but it hold the point if you will follow along. I am Polyamorous, I always will be, it is in my core nature to be able to love more than one person at the same time. I do not have to act on this ability, I can have Monogamous relationships but I find it important to say that I am not a Momogamous person, I am simply a Polyamorous person engaging in a Monogamous relationship. The problem comes with when I find the desire to love more than one person, it isn't fair to the other person to expect them to be okay with it just as it is not okay for them to expect me not to be what it is that I am.

This Transfers into the next part.

80/20: Now if I pretended to be Monogamous and even presented myself as Monogamous then I have done a disservice to the relationship, however if I didn't KNOW I was Polyamorous then there is again another facet to this idea. I do not see living in the 80% as being unhealthy. I find very few VERY FEW people who are 100% completely fulfilled by thier partner. Case in point. I WANT andi to enjoy certain activities, I want her to moan and groan when she receives something that I enjoy doing, however when I do them to her and she does not like them it isn't really something she can pretend to do nor something I would want her to pretend doing, however none the less I want her to enjoy it. That is something that I would like but accept that I do not get. Should I ignore all the things I do get and Focus ONLY on what I am not getting then that 20% that I am NOT getting looks really good. Not everyone gets to have a Mary Poppins Perfect in Everyway slave........ Merc you lucky fucking Bastard. I know how deliriously happy you are and you are one of the few relationships that if argued I would agree you are most likely more a 99.9/0.1 concept. I say this because I am sure you would love it if she could read your mind and make single malt scotch appear by folding her arms and blinking. The point remains few people ever maaintain that and so I am sure there are more 80/20's then there are 99.9/0.1's

The Regret Hangover: Merc you should start charging me for all the wonderful things I steal from you, this will be one of them. I dated a woman in the early 00's and she WANTED to be kinky. She saught me out, well not me specifically but someone who would help her discover the kinkier side of life and the Regret Hangovers were VIOLENT!! She would call me on a Monday and ask if I would escort her to a Dungeon or a Swingers club and let her indulge in her kink in a safe and healthy way. I agreed, she would call me every day and give me these more and more elaborate ideas on what she wanted to do and that she wanted me to help to lubricate this behavior by holding her hand and walking her into it. I would do so, from tying her up and beating her to having her dress like a hooker and have her masturbate for groups of men, all her idea all based on my encouragement. Saturday would come and she would ignore all my calls, finally she would call me mid week crying because she felt so bad about the things that she did because that wasn't how she was raised and that wasn't what good girls do and then ignoring me for the next week before eventually calling me on a Monday and asking if I would do this or that with her, and starting the cycle all over again. I went along with it for awhile too thinking that I was helping until eventually I realized that all I was was a way for her to express a side of her that society told her she should be disgusted with and when the reality of what she did finly sunk in she could not see that what she did was enjoyable all she could see is that she was SUPPOSED to find it wrong.

Thank you all for your comments and I look forward to reading more.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Profile

Post #: 38

RE: Life on Life's Terms - 7/21/2009 10:22:12 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

Change. I believe people are capable of change

You'll never get me on that side of the argument. People don't change. They hear about, see, or experience, something and try it, but fundamentally nothing about them changes. Most often a perceived change is in really a new layer of the person being exposed. It was always there, just hidden; often to the person themselves.

You want to set up a relationship to fail? Require a person to change as part of the dynamic. Somethings are true whether you want them to be or not. beth will NOT tan - ever; no matter how much I like the 'tan-line' look. Forcing her into a tanning bed or putting on an artificial 'tan in a spray can' coating may change her appearance not reality. It won't change the fundamental genetic based fact about her - she can not tan.

Sure - some people use a lot of life versions of 'spray tans' to facilitate an opportunity. I could start some shit and say every submissive with limits and safe-words tries to create a 'spray tan dom'; but think of the shit that will start! (lol) Think about it, Michael's "ass-hole Dom" gets faced with the opportunity; "Okay I'll play with you again, but you went too far and this time if I say 'Pineapple' you have to stop." He says; "yeah sure-I promise this time!". Has he magically changed from being an "asshole" - this time? He may. But the down the road, when he gets tired and the spray color wears off, does he change back or is he, or she for that matter, back to being exactly who they were?

As much as I believe people don't change, I believe that people lie about changing. They tell "good" lies, ones that get past a lie detector. They REALLY think they want to change, they really think they can. They use the convincing tool of words. The person hearing them also lies in believing them, especially when they are written or spoken in direct contradiction of action. Everyone wants to buy into "good intent". What better way to get to play the martyr down the road than to convince, better put lie, to yourself that your potential life partner and 'THE ONE' will change for you!

Nope - you'll not convince me of people changing. They get better at lying to themselves and others. They learn to 'act' for longer periods of time. But, using a source that people use to 'change' regularly, AA doesn't change a person they simply get people to accept their addiction and manage it. They are the first to tell you; "I am an alcoholic". The fact that they haven't had a drink in 10 years, or 10 days doesn't change that reality. The best you can expect is to expose people to new things and hope they accept a new aspect of themselves previously unknown. In the case of AA, they discover they have the strength to not drink and recognize the consequences if they do. I don't see any situation where the fundamental nature of a person, or the person himself, ever changes.

quote:

The Regret Hangover: Merc you should start charging me for all the wonderful things I steal from you

Steel - You can't steal what I give away gladly. Speaking of change, one quote in our signature line will always be there; "The words printed here are concepts. You must go through the experiences." ~ St. Augustine

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Profile

Post #: 39

RE: Life on Life's Terms - 7/21/2009 10:30:37 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Most often a perceived change is in really a new layer of the person being exposed. It was always there, just hidden; often to the person themselves.

Ok, I'll grant that 'change' is likely perception. I've changed, over the years, but I'll admit that most of it is just admitting what I've always sort of known or understood about myself and not hedging my bets to attempt to fit into society the way I'd been conditioned to think I wanted to, until I realized I -didn't-... but isn't the process of finding that 'self below the masks' a process of change?

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 7/21/2009 10:32:18 AM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Profile

Post #: 40