RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come?

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (Full Version)

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Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/23/2009 8:21:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Dave, the cop was on tv tonight, and he said that no apologies would be coming from him, so that does not appear to be on the horizon. This is another incident where I can say it's GREAT that I'm not that cop. If I were, my reply would have been something along the lines of "We've had multiple break-ins in that neighborhood and I was doing my job. However, I have now amended the list of homes for which I will respond to a burglary call....and his is no longer one of them."

Level -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/23/2009 8:28:18 PM)
Loki, as good as that might feel [:D] , they're there to protect and serve, even people they don't like.

rulemylife -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/23/2009 8:46:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Not much to elaborate on. When you allocate scarce resources you allocate them to where they are likely to be put to best use. Statistics tell you where that is. Eg screening little old ladies in airports is a waste of time and money. Racial profiling is nothing more than focusing efforts where they are most likely to bear fruit. Will you catch everyone? No. Will you hassle some innocent people? Yes, and they should be quite happy to cooperate in the effort. Then who should we aim our efforts at Willbeur? Black males? Muslims? Would that bear the fruit you seek? Our legal standards are based on a presumption of innocence. Presuming that a certain group of people are more prone to criminal activity is not something that will hold up in any court.

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/23/2009 8:49:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Loki, as good as that might feel [:D] , they're there to protect and serve, even people they don't like. That's true, but in my old age, I've become increasingly intolerant of those "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenarios. Were I blasted for simply doing my job, I'd just say "fuck off and do it yourself."

slutslave4u -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/23/2009 9:21:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69 Seems to me there's plenty of blame to go around here. Looks like Mr Gates got all high & mighty and the cop, despite years of training and experience, didn't know when to just walk away. It's one of those cases where I just want to smack their heads together, make them shake hands and apologize to each other as though they were a couple of little kids. Preferably on live TV. ~Dave Police are not trained to "just walk away" he did exactly as he was trained to do period......All Gates had to do was cooperate with the police and all would have and could have ended up with him simply going to bed in his own home and that be the end of it....But seems he played the race card, and continued to run his mouth from what I have seen/read and refused to cooperate. With that said, he deserved what he got, he asked for the outcome to be what it is....perhaps once the police got there he INTENDED to play the race card upon their arrival to begin with, we may never know. What many fail to realize is once the police are present, your actions WILL determine what the outcome can and very well may be in that given situation. Had Gates acted in a calm, fitting manner/way for them to finish and conclude the business at hand then the outcome here would have been as such that we never would have heard anything about it all to begin with. Gates made the situation what it came to be, no it never should have been, but he made it what it was and is...not the police. It is very easy to be second guessing the officer's actions when you were not there and you have no police background or training in their jobs/positions, many that do not could not make it through such training, of which that training is never ending as a police officer for the classes they continue to attend each and every year. Perhaps any suit, IF filed, by the officer will show Gates how wrong he actually was not to mention how and what this has come to be and mean for all across the country to see. There are much more important things we as a country should be concentrating on, instead of days/weeks or however long this will be drawn out, of this caused by none other than Gates' actions.

slutslave4u -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/23/2009 9:22:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: ORIGINAL: Level Dave, the cop was on tv tonight, and he said that no apologies would be coming from him, so that does not appear to be on the horizon. This is another incident where I can say it's GREAT that I'm not that cop. If I were, my reply would have been something along the lines of "We've had multiple break-ins in that neighborhood and I was doing my job. However, I have now amended the list of homes for which I will respond to a burglary call....and his is no longer one of them." He has none to make. He did what he was trained and needed to do. He did nothing wrong!

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:43:45 AM)
1) In Mass, Police Officers are required to show identification when asked. 2) The Prof was in his own home, and did not have to exit his residence. 3) Only if you are detained are you required to give your name 4) If detained you have full rights, including Miranda 5) It requires probable cause or a warrant to enter a residence 6) In most states, you do not have to prove you are the owner or legal resident of a dwelling to exert your rights against illegal search. Didn't look like racism to me. Look like two asses coming together to cause drama.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:45:16 AM)
I live in Atlanta and do a lot of traveling of the East Coast for Business. I would say I have seen more racism in Boston than Atlanta. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I only question your source. It happened in Cambridge, Mass, not Atlanta GA.

slutslave4u -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:55:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf 1) In Mass, Police Officers are required to show identification when asked. 2) The Prof was in his own home, and did not have to exit his residence. 3) Only if you are detained are you required to give your name 4) If detained you have full rights, including Miranda 5) It requires probable cause or a warrant to enter a residence 6) In most states, you do not have to prove you are the owner or legal resident of a dwelling to exert your rights against illegal search. Didn't look like racism to me. Look like two asses coming together to cause drama. Yes he was in his own home, however, until the police during their investigation of the possible crime to which they were called there for is concluded that is irrelivent, even at the time of arriving on the scene they were not aware of that fact until it was determined later. Asking him to exit was appropriate so as to determine IF their were a possibility of others being inside the home, additional possible burglars. They were in their right in asking him to exit. Not to mention that I would suspect while asking him to exite they did so for his safety once they were aware he was the resident so they could "clear" the residence and ensure no one else was hiding inside. As for stating ONLY if you are detained are you required to give your name, WRONG, anytime in the course of investigating a possible crime in action, resident or not, if asked to give your name and show proof of ID by any law enforcement officer you are required to do so. Miranda would be required yes if they are going to question him, and I'm sure they most likely did do so. They had probable cause to enter the residence, investigation of a possible burglary in progress, that gives them right to be there. What caused the arrest was not the officers being there investigating a possible burglary in progress, that was why they were there, however Gates actions AFTER they got there is what caused the arrest to take place. There was no illegal search of the residence, again, it was a call to investigate a possible burglary in progress. That gives them the right to be there, and yes to search the home to ensure there are no criminals inside, they do not and did not need a warrant to do so......the issue was and is that Gates was wrong in HIS actions that led to his arrest, PERIOD.....backyard lawyers only add fuel to an already heated issue that need not be.

begmeformore -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 6:00:08 AM)
hello, we live in a smal town in NC , just 2 weeks ago at night while watching TV i saw a flashlight in the back yard , i opened the door and yelled HEY who are you and what do you want , a police officer answered and said he was asked to check the house and property while the owners were away , i informed him i was the owner and did not ask for that , i aske d him into the house ,for it had stared to rain, he entered and ask for ID from myself and my wife , as he returned the ID he called the station to inform them it was the wrong address and to make sure the next shift did not bother us , all ended well as a matter of fact the wife and myself laughed about it ,,, we did not yell or scream at the officer ,we acted like adults and he acted property, i think perhaps both sides in Boston were wrong and a bit "hasty " in their judgement towards each other

Irishknight -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 6:18:37 AM)
There are always those who feel that they can do anything they want. This man decided that it was ok to scream at a police officer, which it is not. There are laws on the books in most places allowing you to be arrested for that sort of thing. He decided to try to play the race card when it had nothing to do with the situation. Not illegal but cowardly, unethical and a poor example for those he is supposed to be teaching. By his own actions, he has shown himself to be as racist as he accused the officer of being. He owes the officer, the college he works for, and everyone he has told this lie to an apology. Unless he is teaching how to use racism to get what you want, then his words on race relations now are proven to be hollow lies. I'd be happy to deal with the cops if they came to check on a burglary reported at my home. That means they're doing their job and trying to protect my family and my property. Anyone could come to the door claiming to be me. The officer asking for an ID is extremely reasonable and is part of doing his job. It seems only one racist is involved in this mess.

vixenkneels -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 6:53:07 AM)
I'm probably being redundant as I didn't take the time to read every reply on six pages of replies but I did take the time to go here and read the actual police report: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/

LadyConstanze -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 7:21:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub OK...if it were my house...and an office asked me to step outside and talk to him...guess what...I would...knowing I just broke into my house at night. OK... I'm a police officer...I have a call of a break in at this address... I am not going to walk into a house alone... I would have my gun out...would you?.. But he didn't...He asked the guy to step outside so he did not need to worry about an ambush... The guy instead of coming out refuses... What would you do... I know you would say...oh sure sorry to bother you excuse me and leave. What a bunch of crap...he is lucky he didn't get a bullet between the eyes instead of a ride to the station. He is not obligated to confront a belligerent suspect with one hand on his ID…at least not until the situation is under control...Was he not in full uniform with badge visible? He was just as much at fault as the officer…he is no innocent victim of police brutality...he is just sort of stupid for a Harvard Professor. Butch I absolutely agree, both parties didn't handle it as well as they should have. Gates should have been grateful that somebody came to protect his property, though he was jet lagged after a 16 hour flight, possibly encountered racial prejudice before, so it SEEMED like it to him, which is understandable. The cops arrested him AFTER it was already established that it was his property and not a burglar. I can understand their side of it and that they were pissed off. You know, tempers breaking lose, it happens, both parties should just chill and realize that they could have handled it differently and then forget the whole mess!

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 7:33:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDaveGuy69 Seems to me there's plenty of blame to go around here. Looks like Mr Gates got all high & mighty and the cop, despite years of training and experience, didn't know when to just walk away. It's one of those cases where I just want to smack their heads together, make them shake hands and apologize to each other as though they were a couple of little kids. Preferably on live TV. ~Dave He did walk away. Both parties agree that he was leaving without making an arrest, and Gates followed him out on the porch and continued to scream at him.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 7:38:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Not much to elaborate on. When you allocate scarce resources you allocate them to where they are likely to be put to best use. Statistics tell you where that is. Eg screening little old ladies in airports is a waste of time and money. Racial profiling is nothing more than focusing efforts where they are most likely to bear fruit. Will you catch everyone? No. Will you hassle some innocent people? Yes, and they should be quite happy to cooperate in the effort. Then who should we aim our efforts at Willbeur? Black males? Muslims? Would that bear the fruit you seek? Our legal standards are based on a presumption of innocence. Presuming that a certain group of people are more prone to criminal activity is not something that will hold up in any court. Efforts should be aimed wherever there is statistical evidence that its appropriate. that could be black males, white males, asian females..whatever. Turning it into a race issue is nonsense. Presumption of innocence is within a courtroom, not in investigating a crime or preventing one. Yes, "probable cause" has an additional hurdle..defending your investigation from "profiling" charges. That hurdle shouldnt exist.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 7:42:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I live in Atlanta and do a lot of traveling of the East Coast for Business. I would say I have seen more racism in Boston than Atlanta. quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I only question your source. It happened in Cambridge, Mass, not Atlanta GA. I was only pointing out the inacuracy of the article. Not making assumptions or pointing fingers.

servantforuse -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 7:55:22 AM)
I think that Obama shoud look up the defination of prejudice. He is guilty of pre-judging that police officer. He also owes officer Crowley and apology

mnottertail -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 9:28:12 AM)
Ja, fuck that, Gates is 60 years old and needs to use a cane to ambulate, one leg being 2 inches shorter than the other. And he isn't a real big guy neither. Cops come on way too agressively as a matter of course. So, a smaller 60ish black guy leaning on a cane, starts reading you the riot act.......... the cop is guilty of shoddy police work. Why the mohasker? I am a G-man. OH, ok.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 10:18:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse I think that Obama shoud look up the defination of prejudice. He is guilty of pre-judging that police officer. He also owes officer Crowley and apology To be fair he did say he was biased in favor of Gates. Too bad (for him more than anyone else) he didnt just shut up at that point, instead of making statements based on and admitted bias and an admitted lack of details.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 10:50:32 AM)
I will not go into and show all the inaccuracies in your post, because it would be pretty lengthy. This one though is easily researched Nevada vs. Hiibel: " Hiibel refused to comply. He was charged and convicted of violating the mandatory identity law, a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail. His conviction was affirmed by a state appeals court and the Nevada Supreme Court. In upholding his conviction and the mandatory identity-disclosure law, the majority justices also said the law only requires that a suspect disclose his or her name, rather than requiring production of a driver's license or other document. " "Police generally are not allowed to demand to show identification, but the court ruled that police using language such as “I would like to see some identification” are simply requesting identification, not demanding it. " http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/05/appeals_court_r/ quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u As for stating ONLY if you are detained are you required to give your name, WRONG, anytime in the course of investigating a possible crime in action, resident or not, if asked to give your name and show proof of ID by any law enforcement officer you are required to do so.

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