RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come?

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (Full Version)

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OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 10:54:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u Police are not trained to "just walk away" he did exactly as he was trained to do period......All Gates had to do was cooperate with the police and all would have and could have ended up with him simply going to bed in his own home and that be the end of it....But seems he played the race card, and continued to run his mouth from what I have seen/read and refused to cooperate. With that said, he deserved what he got, he asked for the outcome to be what it is....perhaps once the police got there he INTENDED to play the race card upon their arrival to begin with, we may never know. The charges were dismissed. He did not have to comply with anything the officers asked. He should have just told the police from within his home what his name is, and that he was the owner. If they insisted, he should have told them to obtain a legal warrant and he would then comply. quote: Perhaps any suit, IF filed, by the officer will show Gates how wrong he actually was not to mention how and what this has come to be and mean for all across the country to see. There are much more important things we as a country should be concentrating on, instead of days/weeks or however long this will be drawn out, of this caused by none other than Gates' actions. Based on previous cases, that went against the police department in similar situations, if one were to be filed it would be settled.

slvemike4u -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 11:00:38 AM)
With out reading all 6 pages here(so there is a chance someone else has covered this)I find it troubling that President Obama thought it necessary to comment on this incident.Fully realising as the first black President of the U.S. it was almost preordained that he would be asked the question...should he not,as POTUS side step the issue?After all he is President...not Commander-in- Chief of racial relations. The very gravity of the office demands that as President he remain above the fray on some issues....not respond with knee jerk reactions to what in the long run is not really a national issue....I'm not trying to minimise this incident but on the other hand when the President responds to it,he blows it out of proportion and in the end alienates that portion of society he most needs to move towards conciliation and growth. Certainly not helpful at all.

kdsub -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 11:14:04 AM)
I touched on this subject earlier...of course I could be wrong but I don't think a warrant would be required in this case. This was a potential crime in progress...they were called to a burglary. Here is another example... The police are in pursuit of a speeding vehicle. The driver stops and bails out of the car running to a home. The officers see him enter the home and pursue to the door. The speeder yells..."this is my home you need a warrant before you can enter". What do you think the law is in this circumstance? Here is another example... The police receive a call that two men are breaking into their neighbor’s house while they are on vacation. The officers arrive and find two men just forcing the front door open. The officers run to the door and demand identification. One of the men says this is my house you need a warrant and slams the door closed. What do you think the law would be in this case? Butch

FangsNfeet -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 11:18:45 AM)
Come on Level. What makes you think this has anything to do with race? A black cop would have done the same thing when responding to a call that a house had been broken into. If you broke into your own house, are the cops suppose to know automaticly that it's you who lives there? Are they suppose to just belive "It's okay officer, I live here." without showing proof? Criminals would have a field day if that were the case.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 11:25:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I will not go into and show all the inaccuracies in your post, because it would be pretty lengthy. This one though is easily researched Nevada vs. Hiibel: " Hiibel refused to comply. He was charged and convicted of violating the mandatory identity law, a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail. His conviction was affirmed by a state appeals court and the Nevada Supreme Court. In upholding his conviction and the mandatory identity-disclosure law, the majority justices also said the law only requires that a suspect disclose his or her name, rather than requiring production of a driver's license or other document. " "Police generally are not allowed to demand to show identification, but the court ruled that police using language such as “I would like to see some identification” are simply requesting identification, not demanding it. " http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/05/appeals_court_r/ quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u As for stating ONLY if you are detained are you required to give your name, WRONG, anytime in the course of investigating a possible crime in action, resident or not, if asked to give your name and show proof of ID by any law enforcement officer you are required to do so. But that is Nevada. Do other jurisdictions, particularly MA, have different requirements? Edit: thinking about it, probably not...4th amendment or somesuch.

Arpig -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 12:08:10 PM)
~FR~ Many years ago I worked on the Campus police at the University of Ottawa. One of the standing rules was that in a situation involving a black, we had to call and wait for backup so there would be a witness, because they almost inevitably tried to play the race card. I have sympathy for the officer in this case, having had the race card played on me.

servantforuse -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 12:10:09 PM)
Obama just made an appearance at the White House press breifing. He made a non-apology,,apology. It was pretty pathetic. Police union members around the country are hacked off, as they should be..

xBullx -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 12:14:02 PM)
-fast reply- You know what I like about the CM forums? The people.... Threads like this one show me that charcter, truth and integrity are still valued vitues even in a place where belief systems can be so far removed from one another... I salute you all; at least for the moment.[;)]

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 12:32:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf 1) In Mass, Police Officers are required to show identification when asked. For Patrolmen, their "identification is right there on their chest. Kinda hard to miss. quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf 3) Only if you are detained are you required to give your name 5) It requires probable cause or a warrant to enter a residence If the officer is investigating a break-in and you are at the scene, you'd better believe you're required to give your name when asked. And the probable cause is more than satisfied when the cop is answering a burglary call. quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf 6) In most states, you do not have to prove you are the owner or legal resident of a dwelling to exert your rights against illegal search. But if you're a suspected burglar, it's not an illegal search when you're the one found at the scene.

Louve00 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 12:40:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: ORIGINAL: Louve00 This was a testosterone battle. I'm curious why you would say this. It sounds more like ego than testosterone to me. I'd stipulate that since similar incidents have occured with women (particularly the black congresswoman I mentioned earlier) that "testosterone battle" would be a poor choice or words. I'm sorry for the delay in reply. I read like a mad-woman on those forums sometimes, and neglect to come back (forget, don't want to get in a spitting fight with someone, think it's useless to continue, or some other thing). I know you are completely right about women and men both having that same mindset. A more constant example would be Naomi Campbell, of a woman on a mission to win her way. Regardless though, much as the stigma's of race, sex, ethnicity label us regardless of what they are. (In other words, because I'm a woman and would feel emotionally strong about something, some might just dismiss it, chalk it up as, or discount it as me being "just a female", when there may be issues that would emotionally charge either sex. This instance was indeed two males though, so it would go hand in hand to pick the example of "testosterone battle", as I would interpret the term as meaning a battle of wills between two men. Or, as you say, ego. Ok, it was probably a sexist remark and politically incorrect. Sorry[sm=flowers.gif]

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 12:41:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf The charges were dismissed. He did not have to comply with anything the officers asked. He should have just told the police from within his home what his name is, and that he was the owner. If they insisted, he should have told them to obtain a legal warrant and he would then comply. Except that in this case, the officers were responding to a burglary call and thus, needed no warrant. They could have called in the SWAT team if they believed an individual in the house was there illegally and refusing to come out.

maybemaybenot -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 12:45:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf 1) In Mass, Police Officers are required to show identification when asked. 2) The Prof was in his own home, and did not have to exit his residence. 3) Only if you are detained are you required to give your name 4) If detained you have full rights, including Miranda 5) It requires probable cause or a warrant to enter a residence 6) In most states, you do not have to prove you are the owner or legal resident of a dwelling to exert your rights against illegal search. Didn't look like racism to me. Look like two asses coming together to cause drama. As previously stated Crowley was in the process of getting his ID out for Gates, when Gates walked away. So how badly did Gates want it ? I am unaware of Crowley entering the Harvard University owned home in which Gates resides. I am unaware of any police officer asking to come in or demanding access to that home. Who was trying to search his home? The police didn't ask to come in a search his home. They asked for ID to prove he was the occupant of that home in response to a 911 B&E call. So I am not sure what you are talking about regarding search and illegal entry. None of that even applies in this case.

slutslave4u -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 2:05:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u Police are not trained to "just walk away" he did exactly as he was trained to do period......All Gates had to do was cooperate with the police and all would have and could have ended up with him simply going to bed in his own home and that be the end of it....But seems he played the race card, and continued to run his mouth from what I have seen/read and refused to cooperate. With that said, he deserved what he got, he asked for the outcome to be what it is....perhaps once the police got there he INTENDED to play the race card upon their arrival to begin with, we may never know. The charges were dismissed. He did not have to comply with anything the officers asked. He should have just told the police from within his home what his name is, and that he was the owner. If they insisted, he should have told them to obtain a legal warrant and he would then comply. quote: Perhaps any suit, IF filed, by the officer will show Gates how wrong he actually was not to mention how and what this has come to be and mean for all across the country to see. There are much more important things we as a country should be concentrating on, instead of days/weeks or however long this will be drawn out, of this caused by none other than Gates' actions. Based on previous cases, that went against the police department in similar situations, if one were to be filed it would be settled. Yes the charges were dismissed, by the prosecuters not the police department. But they were not dismissed that night there at the residence in question, only later and again dismissed by the prosecuters. It would be unbelievable for any officer to simply take anyone's "word" that this is their residence and leave without full verification to prove that before they even think of leaving. If that were done at your home you would be highly upset to find it was the burglar that insisted he lived there and an officer allowed him to continue to steal from you instead of verifying all information before leaving. Orion I to reside in the metro Atlanta GA area, personally do I know you, no. I do believe we have met a time or two briefly....do I agree with your opinions regarding this matter, no I do not, that is my right. Do I respect you for who you are and what you have done, yes. I am a former police officer of near 20 years. I would have, and ANY officer anywhere would have handled the situation exactly the same as this one did. Gates was in the wrong and brought all this upon himself, as it did not need to go there. In the course of responding to a possible burglary in progress, either show me some identification to prove who you are and that this is your place of residence at the time it is requested by the officer on scene or it will be produced at the jail when booking you in on charges of obstructing an officer in the course of his duties while the investigation of a possible burglary is concluded, especially if they are yelling and carrying on as Gates was doing. Did they need a warrant, no, they needed to make sure there were no others hiding within the residence while investigating a break in (especially since that area had been experiencing several break ins as they were). They were not "searching" for any papers or evidence inside, not going through closets or drawers, or going through his computers for evidence or seeking anything in particular, rather simply making sure for all safety there that there were no others hiding within from the officers. Gates made it what it came to be, Gates played the race card, perhaps all along thinking lawsuit lawsuit thinking how he may be able to cash this in for some easy cash. Ask me, showing his true self as he did, I believe he will see if that were his plan, it will as it is now doing, backfire in his face and show his true colors. I just read the report myself the first time, and still agree 100% with what was done...and I would have done the same as a police officer.....it's called their job!

Level -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 3:58:02 PM)
quote: CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – A black police officer who was at Henry Louis Gates Jr.'s home when the black Harvard scholar was arrested says he fully supports how his white fellow officer handled the situation. Sgt. Leon Lashley says Gates was probably tired and surprised when Sgt. James Crowley demanded identification from him as officers investigated a report of a burglary. Lashley says Gates' reaction to Crowley was "a little bit stranger than it should have been." Asked if Gates should have been arrested, Lashley said supported Crowley "100 percent." The link was fucked up, the above can be found at Yahoo.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:04:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u Yes the charges were dismissed, by the prosecuters not the police department. In todays press conference they (I think the prosecuters office or representatives) said that given the controversy they should have let it go to trial.

kittinSol -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:10:56 PM)
Fast reply - there is a lot of self-congratulatory shit on this thread. For obvious reasons, it's hard for anyone who isn't black to understand what it must be must be like to be a black man in America. For the very same reasons, it's difficult for me to fathom how a black man must feel when he is harrangued erroneously by the police, especially if (and likely, it has) it's happened fuck knows how many times. The case is closed: he was entering his own home. But now, of course, the fringe political scavengers are joining in, ensuring they get a bite of the action. It's all so sad, and so shameful.

LotusSong -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:12:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl I agree Level. Someone, regardless of their color skin, will always refuse to look at their own actions and instead toss out the "race" card. Maybe we need some clairification.. like "the first person to play the race card IS the racist"?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:12:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol But now, of course, the fringe political scavengers are joining in, ensuring they get a bite of the action. It's all so sad, and so shameful. I guess you mean that fringe political scavenger Barack Obama?

Brain -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:14:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level *Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct, after a neighbor called police and told them he was breaking into a home. Thing was, it was his* house... We've come a long way, electing a black man as president. But are we a color blind society? Will we ever be? No, but feel free to discuss the finer points amongst yourselves.** http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1973306/henry_louis_gates_arrest_becoming_a.html?cat=9 THIS FAR Another Day, Another ‘Republican Activist’ Caught Sending Racist Anti-Obama Crap http://wonkette.com/410039/another-day-another-republican-activist-caught-sending-racist-anti-obama-crap

slutslave4u -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:15:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u Yes the charges were dismissed, by the prosecuters not the police department. In todays press conference they (I think the prosecuters office or representatives) said that given the controversy they should have let it go to trial. I agree, the charges should not have been dropped to begin with, rather should have continued on as they were rightfully brought upon Gates to begin with in the first place.

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