RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come?

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (Full Version)

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kittinSol -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:16:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol But now, of course, the fringe political scavengers are joining in, ensuring they get a bite of the action. It's all so sad, and so shameful. I guess you mean that fringe political scavenger Barack Obama? No, I meant you, and the birthers freaks.

SoulPiercer -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:19:42 PM)
I have 3 friends who are white police officers in 3 different jurisdictions in 3 different states, west coast, south and mid-west. They all said the same thing. While they aren't particularly happy about what the President said, they all agree. The officer acted stupidly. They also said, and I agree, it wasn't necessarily about race. It was about an officer who didn't like the fact that a "suspect" wasn't complying, when in fact, said suspect should not have been treated like a suspect once the facts were known. Police cruisers have these pieces of electronics called computers. They also have radios. Once they knew a name, some simple checking could have proved that the person in the home was telling the truth. Would it have been easier if Gates wasn't argumentative? Yep. But remember, you have the right to remain silent. According to my friends who know better than I, a neighbor reporting a suspected break-in is not probable cause for the officer to enter or to demand the occupant come out, after the occupant has said he is the resident. Again, all they needed was his name to confirm that. Seriously .. did this 59 year old man break into a home and just happen to find the home owner's name so he could claim he lived there when the police showed up? Your neighbor calls the police because they hear your wife screaming and they think you're beating the hell out of her. When the police arrive, your wife (the supposed victim) opens the door, says everything is fine, refuses to allow the officers to enter and closes the door. They cannot kick the door in. If she leaves the door open, they cannot simply walk in based on what a neighbor said. She is the supposed victim and she said there was nothing wrong. Unless they witness you striking her through that open door, they cannot enter. The final tidbit my friends gave me was: you can't be "disorderly" if you're the only person in your own home. Of course they all admit things could be different in Mass, but they all said that in their jurisdictions, in order for a disorderly charge to stick, there must be someone else with the right to be in the home who makes the complaint. Unfortunately, a police officer who doesn't like that you called him a racist doesn't count. Oddly enough, the charge in this case was dropped. All these guys who are "on the job" said the same thing. Once the facts were known, the officer should have just let it go. Fortunately, it's still not illegal for citizens to get pissed off and verbalize that when they feel they are being treated like a suspect in a supposed crime and they know they haven't done anything wrong. Nope, it's not fun to be yelled at or be told "you don't know who you're messing with". But in many cases, it comes with the job. The person in authority, the one with the badge and gun is the one who is expected to keep a level head. Afterall .. this particular officer has taught classes on racial profiling. Which means his department knows it's an issue. Even if none of their officers have ever used profiling, the department is aware of the issue and none of their officers should be a bit surprised if they encounter a citizen who reacts in a negative way because they feel they are being profiled themselves.

slutslave4u -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:19:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Fast reply - there is a lot of self-congratulatory shit on this thread. For obvious reasons, it's hard for anyone who isn't black to understand what it must be must be like to be a black man in America. For the very same reasons, it's difficult for me to fathom how a black man must feel when he is harrangued erroneously by the police, especially if (and likely, it has) it's happened fuck knows how many times. The case is closed: he was entering his own home. But now, of course, the fringe political scavengers are joining in, ensuring they get a bite of the action. It's all so sad, and so shameful. Black/white had nothing to do with it, the actions taken by the officers were warranted and just, gates did wrong and refuses still to own up to what he did and HE is the one that immediately brought up the race card.....what is really upsetting in this country is the fact that now in this day and time of 2009, any time a black man is arrested and a white officer is involved, they immediately bring up the race card, THAT is what is so upsetting to many!

kittinSol -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:24:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u Black/white had nothing to do with it, the actions taken by the officers were warranted and just, gates did wrong and refuses still to own up to what he did and HE is the one that immediately brought up the race card Of course he felt if was a racial thing he is black. I am trying to understand things from his point of view, which obviously you cannot do (all the less power to you). Because, by the time a man has reached his age, how many times do you think it is likely that he was harrassed by the police or others for absolutely no reasons at all other than his skin colour? I say the likelyhood is immense.

LotusSong -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:29:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Fast reply - there is a lot of self-congratulatory shit on this thread. For obvious reasons, it's hard for anyone who isn't black to understand what it must be must be like to be a black man in America. For the very same reasons, it's difficult for me to fathom how a black man must feel when he is harrangued erroneously by the police, especially if (and likely, it has) it's happened fuck knows how many times. The case is closed: he was entering his own home. But now, of course, the fringe political scavengers are joining in, ensuring they get a bite of the action. It's all so sad, and so shameful. Actually the person who called the police was the profiler. (I didn't read through all the pages prior to this post so if it was mentiopned-sorry for the repeat) The officer was looking for TWO people in the house and how could he have known that perhaps there wasn't the 2nd person standing behind the door with a gun on the professor? All that the call said was that there were two black guys with backpacks breaking into the house. BTW, was the person who cared to report it white or black? I haven't heard yet. He treated the proffessor the same way any white person would have been treated if they mothed off to an officer. Equality can be a bitch, eh? I'll accept nothing less than equal disciplinary action again the POTUS. I want an appology to the officer, his family, his ancestors and his future decendants, the whole police department with some sort of reparations, attendance to sensitivity training about the white culture and a specific apology to the white race as a whole. The black race would not take less. (I use black and white as terms because African-American and Caucasion-European is too friggin' long to type) Gates may have pulled the race card but Obama tried to pull his version of the good 'ol boys club and it backfired. But we can always blame that on his "white side". (The above was written tongue in cheek.. but I hope you get the point.)

Ialdabaoth -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:35:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Of course he felt if was a racial thing he is black. I am trying to understand things from his point of view, which obviously you cannot do (all the less power to you). Because, by the time a man has reached his age, how many times do you think it is likely that he was harrassed by the police or others for absolutely no reasons at all other than his skin colour? I say the likelyhood is immense. It doesn't matter. People want to believe this was the n - ahem, black man's fault, so they're going to come up with justifications why it was the black man's fault, and nothing you can say will change that. They also firmly believe that it isn't racist to automatically assume that a white officer is more credible than a b...black man (whew, did it that time!), but that it is racist to automatically take the black man's side. Hopefully this will be solved in another 5-6 generations, when we all look like Hale Barry.

kittinSol -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:43:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Of course he felt if was a racial thing he is black. I am trying to understand things from his point of view, which obviously you cannot do (all the less power to you). Because, by the time a man has reached his age, how many times do you think it is likely that he was harrassed by the police or others for absolutely no reasons at all other than his skin colour? I say the likelyhood is immense. It doesn't matter. People want to believe this was the n - ahem, black man's fault, so they're going to come up with justifications why it was the black man's fault, and nothing you can say will change that. They also firmly believe that it isn't racist to automatically assume that a white officer is more credible than a b...black man (whew, did it that time!), but that it is racist to automatically take the black man's side. Hopefully this will be solved in another 5-6 generations, when we all look like Hale Barry. I really appreciate your ironic stance - in the circumstances, humour, however deviated, is the only way to deal with this stuff [:(] .

kittinSol -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:45:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Equality can be a bitch, eh? I'll accept nothing less than equal disciplinary action again the POTUS. I want an appology to the officer, his family, his ancestors and his future decendants, the whole police department with some sort of reparations, attendance to sensitivity training about the white culture and a specific apology to the white race as a whole. The black race would not take less. (I use black and white as terms because African-American and Caucasion-European is too friggin' long to type) Gates may have pulled the race card but Obama tried to pull his version of the good 'ol boys club and it backfired. But we can always blame that on his "white side". (The above was written tongue in cheek.. but I hope you get the point.) Forgive me for saying so, but not only do you have a strangely perverse victim mentality, you are also delusional.

Irishknight -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:54:40 PM)
No matter how you try to look at it, the prof was wrong. Reports and witnesses say that the officer was walking away when the man followed him to continue his ranting. He tried to make it a racial issue because he wanted it to be. Then he was not to blame for anything. He wanted to be the victim. Sorry, but this cop was trying to do a job and the prof was acting like an arrogant racist fool. And, the first person to whip out the race card IS being racist. Whether he is white or black, the one who chooses to make something a race issue that is not IS BEING RACIST. That individual's actions are perpetuating racist attitudes. Racism is wrong no matter which way it flows and it is not a ready made "get out of trouble free" card. The prof owes a public apology to the officer and all who have heard this tripe he's been spewing.

slutslave4u -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 4:59:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u Black/white had nothing to do with it, the actions taken by the officers were warranted and just, gates did wrong and refuses still to own up to what he did and HE is the one that immediately brought up the race card Of course he felt if was a racial thing he is black. I am trying to understand things from his point of view, which obviously you cannot do (all the less power to you). Because, by the time a man has reached his age, how many times do you think it is likely that he was harrassed by the police or others for absolutely no reasons at all other than his skin colour? I say the likelyhood is immense. So if the race of each were reversed would all say it is a racial thing as well then? Most likely it never would have become such a nationally public issue. You never hear or see the race card being brought up any other way. This was not a racial thing, he MADE it into one by pulling out the racial card. He is not a stupid nor ignorant man, he knew what he was doing when he said it. What I can and do understand is he knew he was in the wrong by being argumentative and uncooperative and he caused this to go where it did. Black/white, needed not make a dfference. All he should have and needed to do was simply in a calm manner cooperate with the officers and be gratefull for their protecting his property.....in an normal rational situation....but what he did was show he is racist, and not normal nor rational.

Level -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:02:17 PM)
FR: the more people (read: women) that look like Halle Berry, the better.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:13:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol But now, of course, the fringe political scavengers are joining in, ensuring they get a bite of the action. It's all so sad, and so shameful. I guess you mean that fringe political scavenger Barack Obama? No, I meant you, and the birthers freaks. birthers? I dont know what that means?

slaveboyforyou -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:14:40 PM)
quote: Black/white, needed not make a dfference. All he should have and needed to do was simply in a calm manner cooperate with the officers and be gratefull for their protecting his property.....in an normal rational situation....but what he did was show he is racist, and not normal nor rational. He doesn't have to act calmly in his own home. I don't have to act calmly in my own home. You don't have to act calmly in your own home. If I want to rant, rave, and curse in my home, it's my right to do so. Disorderly conduct does not apply unless there are other residents in the house complaining or you're out in public. If a cop comes to my door, and I call him a cocksucker through the screen....IT'S NOT ILLEGAL. It's trashy, and rude...but not illegal.

kittinSol -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:15:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u Black/white, needed not make a dfference. All he should have and needed to do was simply in a calm manner cooperate with the officers and be gratefull for their protecting his property.....in an normal rational situation....but what he did was show he is racist, and not normal nor rational. Riiiiiiiiiighttt [8\|] .

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:17:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u Black/white had nothing to do with it, the actions taken by the officers were warranted and just, gates did wrong and refuses still to own up to what he did and HE is the one that immediately brought up the race card Of course he felt if was a racial thing he is black. I am trying to understand things from his point of view, which obviously you cannot do (all the less power to you). Because, by the time a man has reached his age, how many times do you think it is likely that he was harrassed by the police or others for absolutely no reasons at all other than his skin colour? I say the likelyhood is immense. Given his background id say the likelihood is small. further, given his background, Id say that the likelihood that he intentionally escalated things so he could play the race card is immense.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:19:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: Black/white, needed not make a dfference. All he should have and needed to do was simply in a calm manner cooperate with the officers and be gratefull for their protecting his property.....in an normal rational situation....but what he did was show he is racist, and not normal nor rational. He doesn't have to act calmly in his own home. I don't have to act calmly in my own home. You don't have to act calmly in your own home. If I want to rant, rave, and curse in my home, it's my right to do so. Disorderly conduct does not apply unless there are other residents in the house complaining or you're out in public. If a cop comes to my door, and I call him a cocksucker through the screen....IT'S NOT ILLEGAL. It's trashy, and rude...but not illegal. He wasnt arrested for actions inside his home, he was arrested for actions he took in public, and they certainly would qualify as disorderly conduct for purposes of an arrest.

slaveboyforyou -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:20:39 PM)
quote: He wasnt arrested for actions inside his home, he was arrested for actions he took in public, and they certainly would qualify as disorderly conduct for purposes of an arrest. How exactly was he in public?

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:21:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u ....but what he did was show he is racist, and not normal nor rational. I differ. It shows to me that he is what he has been his whole career...a race provocateur, and that context his actions are quite normal and rational. New book to follow.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:22:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub I touched on this subject earlier...of course I could be wrong but I don't think a warrant would be required in this case. This was a potential crime in progress...they were called to a burglary. Probable cause would have to be determined since the officer did not see the burglary in progress. If there was something obvious, like a broken window or door, combined with the call, then that would have likely established probable cause. Just a call usually does not establish probable cause, but that would have been a call the field supervisor would have made. quote: Here is another example... The police are in pursuit of a speeding vehicle. The driver stops and bails out of the car running to a home. The officers see him enter the home and pursue to the door. The speeder yells..."this is my home you need a warrant before you can enter". What do you think the law is in this circumstance? Fleeing felons come under a different set of entry laws, not the same circumstance at all. quote: Here is another example... The police receive a call that two men are breaking into their neighbor’s house while they are on vacation. The officers arrive and find two men just forcing the front door open. The officers run to the door and demand identification. One of the men says this is my house you need a warrant and slams the door closed. What do you think the law would be in this case? Butch I would say there was probable cause since the officer actual saw the forced entry, which again is a different circumstance than just a phone call. This is why many states have amended Domestic Violence laws, so that officers have the legal right to enter the premises to determine that everyone is okay. Just a phone call is usually not enough, but there are a few exceptions (screams of help, gunfire, just to name a couple).

slutslave4u -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/24/2009 5:25:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou quote: Black/white, needed not make a dfference. All he should have and needed to do was simply in a calm manner cooperate with the officers and be gratefull for their protecting his property.....in an normal rational situation....but what he did was show he is racist, and not normal nor rational. He doesn't have to act calmly in his own home. I don't have to act calmly in my own home. You don't have to act calmly in your own home. If I want to rant, rave, and curse in my home, it's my right to do so. Disorderly conduct does not apply unless there are other residents in the house complaining or you're out in public. If a cop comes to my door, and I call him a cocksucker through the screen....IT'S NOT ILLEGAL. It's trashy, and rude...but not illegal. The charge of disorderly conduct was not brought about by his conduct inside his home....rather when he followed the officer back outside and continued in his rantings not only in the presence of other officers but the other citizens, the public as you stated that had began to gather out in front of the residence, IN PUBLIC as stated in the arrest report !

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