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RE: Worship a Female sub. - 8/5/2009 7:51:49 AM   
XYisInferior


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Given your apparently utterly intransigent opinions, I also hope that you don't, in fact, have any offspring, that you are not involved in education, nor have any influence on young people whatsoever.   


The same is often said about people who live BDSM and M/s lifestyles as well, Peon. There are many who find their way of living morally irreprehensible, and would have big G snatch their children away based on the knowledge of their lifestyle interests alone. For the record, I have had my share of influence over youth in my life. Thus far, they have not flailed their arms about and gone berserk quite yet, but we'll see!

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(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Worship a Female sub. - 8/5/2009 8:38:41 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

: XYisInferior


PeonForHer

Given your apparently utterly intransigent opinions, I also hope that you don't, in fact, have any offspring, that you are not involved in education, nor have any influence on young people whatsoever.   


quote:


The same is often said about people who live BDSM and M/s lifestyles as well, Peon. There are many who find their way of living morally irreprehensible, and would have big G snatch their children away based on the knowledge of their lifestyle interests alone.


Luckily, I don't have to base my opinion about the way you want to treat male children on your lifestyle alone.  I can base it on what you've already put on this thread. 

quote:

For the record, I have had my share of influence over youth in my life. Thus far, they have not flailed their arms about and gone berserk quite yet, but we'll see!


No, but methinks you've been doing a little flailing around and going berserk with those science books.

You implied earlier that I must feel 'threatened' by female supremacy.  That would only be true if you and I were using different words to describe entirely different feelings.  I'd be frightened by a lion running at me but I'm irritated by the idea of female supremacy.  That is, I feel approximately as threatened by the idea of  female supremacy as I do when I see a dead fly in the milk. 

Speaking of lions:  You know, this entire argument reminds me of a joke I heard as a kid.  A lion goes around the jungle roaring at various animals, saying, "I'm the king of the jungle!"  All the animals quake in terror, and say "Yes, oh King, you are indeed!".  The lion eventually goes up to an elephant and shouts "I am the king of the jungle!" . . .  whereupon the elephant picks him up, turns him upside down and bashes his head on the floor, then stamps on him.  The lion says 'Well, there's no need to be afraid of me!"

I think you're protesting far, far too much, Inferior.  Female supremacy is not something that one 'believes in' and promotes as a 'philosophy' because if it were as true and natural as you say, it'd already exist.  Nobody would need to argue that men accept females as superior - much less supreme - because we'd have no choice but to see it.   We can't see it, because it doesn't exist.  Ergo, it's not true and not natural.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 8/5/2009 8:43:24 AM >


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(in reply to XYisInferior)
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RE: Worship a Female sub. - 8/5/2009 9:00:15 AM   
XYisInferior


Posts: 166
Joined: 2/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
You implied earlier that I must feel 'threatened' by female supremacy. 


Honestly? I feel you do, but that's ok. Women have greater immunity advantages overall, greater longevity, less socially deletarious behaviors, etc. You can choose to accept these facts on their own, or bring them together to form your assesments about FS, if you so choose.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
"Luckily, I don't have to base my opinion about the way you want to treat male children on your lifestyle alone. I can base it on what you've already put on this thread. "


But the point was still made that you are associated with a lifestyle that is considered "obscene" by a large portion of society, like it or not. By setting up a precedent for society to "thought police" our lifestyles and beliefs, you by extension open up your own lifestyle interests and beliefs to rigid examination as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
The lion eventually goes up to an elephant and shouts "I am the king of the jungle!" . . . whereupon the elephant picks him up, turns him upside down and bashes his head on the floor, then stamps on him.


Your modesty is amazing, Peon.

_____________________________

S a h a r a h E v e . c o m

Do your own homework. Write your own stuff.


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Worship a Female sub. - 8/5/2009 9:15:21 AM   
ignoreme


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Joined: 12/26/2008
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quote:

Female supremacy is not something that one 'believes in' and promotes as a 'philosophy' because if it were as true and natural as you say, it'd already exist. Nobody would need to argue that men accept females as superior - much less supreme - because we'd have no choice but to see it. We can't see it, because it doesn't exist. Ergo, it's not true and not natural.

There are quite a few people that believe females would be better leaders and managers, and there have been a few studies pointing out the same. Of course, this doesn't make them superior...

But to say it's not natural is plain wrong, our society and culture is a construct, not natural order. Equality isn't natural either. In pack animals (including humans), every animal has his position in the social order. There have been some tribes that were matriarchal. Whether we agree with it or not, our society could become that too.

< Message edited by ignoreme -- 8/5/2009 9:16:03 AM >

(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: Worship a Female sub. - 8/5/2009 9:44:59 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ignoreme

quote:

Female supremacy is not something that one 'believes in' and promotes as a 'philosophy' because if it were as true and natural as you say, it'd already exist. Nobody would need to argue that men accept females as superior - much less supreme - because we'd have no choice but to see it. We can't see it, because it doesn't exist. Ergo, it's not true and not natural.

There are quite a few people that believe females would be better leaders and managers, and there have been a few studies pointing out the same. Of course, this doesn't make them superior...

But to say it's not natural is plain wrong, our society and culture is a construct, not natural order. Equality isn't natural either. In pack animals (including humans), every animal has his position in the social order. There have been some tribes that were matriarchal. Whether we agree with it or not, our society could become that too.


In a major sense I agree.  I don't think that there are 'natural leaders' either.  I was arguing against Inferior on that point re women being 'natural leaders'.  And I don't believe men are 'natural leaders' either.  There have been certain tribes that were matriarchal, though matriarchy in these wasn't as all-embracing as patriarchy was, once, in ours.  There are more matriarchal societies still, today, though these are small and looking as though their chances of surviving aren't great. 

Society, I think, is part natural and part construct.  The truth is that we don't know how much nature and how much construct is involved.  Beyond a certain limited point it's useless to reference other species because even the closest of these clearly have different 'natures'.  Gorillas, for instance, live quite differently to chimpanzees. 

Women, on the whole, might make better managers and leaders.  I'm aware of studies that say this.  But when it comes to choosing which individual person you want, for example, to run a country - knowing this doesn't help.  You'd have to look for specific qualities in the candidates, regardless of their sex.  That's what I mean by 'meritocracy'.  To do otherwise - to pick a female candidate would be to prejudge her as better just because she's a woman.  That is, it'd be to pick her on the basis of prejudice.  In exactly the same way there is, no doubt, old 'evidence' that whites are better at leading than blacks.  That doesn't matter either - it's the individual, not the group, that counts. 

Whether we agree with it or not, our society could become [matriarchal] too
 
True - but extremely unlikely.  The general change hasn't been towards seeing this or that 'group' as better or worse than another.  In fact, the general change has been against seeing people in terms of groups at all.  It makes too little sense to the modern rationality.  I would choose, as my leader, the person who has a range of qualities that I consider important.  It would feel less rational to me, not more, to think "Well, she's a woman.  I don't need to look for qualities, because as a woman, she'll make a better leader than the males".  Even if there were widespread belief in the superiority of women over men in a large range of qualities, for most people, it still wouldn't feel more rational to think that way. 

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Worship a Female sub. - 8/5/2009 10:11:28 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: XYisInferior


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
You implied earlier that I must feel 'threatened' by female supremacy. 


Honestly? I feel you do, but that's ok.


Nope - but believe it if you want.  That's ok.  I'm more than comfortably certain that the femsuprem utopia you envisage won't ever happen. 

quote:


Women have greater immunity advantages overall, greater longevity, less socially deletarious behaviors, etc. You can choose to accept these facts on their own, or bring them together to form your assesments about FS, if you so choose.


Oh dear.  Back to this again.  For the zillionth time, Inferior - these facts (even if they're true) - wouldn't matter.  None of them necessarily have anything to do with superiority or inferiority.  It's entirely about the values that one cares to pick.  And when we come to pick leaders, we pick individuals, not groups.  If I look at a woman as a future prime minister, I might - to use your value, what the hell - look at how long she might live.  How long women generally live wouldn't be relevant. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
"Luckily, I don't have to base my opinion about the way you want to treat male children on your lifestyle alone. I can base it on what you've already put on this thread. "


quote:


But the point was still made that you are associated with a lifestyle that is considered "obscene" by a large portion of society, like it or not. By setting up a precedent for society to "thought police" our lifestyles and beliefs, you by extension open up your own lifestyle interests and beliefs to rigid examination as well.


No, once again, I'm not interested in you and your personal beliefs.  I'm interested in your foisting them on your children. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
The lion eventually goes up to an elephant and shouts "I am the king of the jungle!" . . . whereupon the elephant picks him up, turns him upside down and bashes his head on the floor, then stamps on him.

Your modesty is amazing, Peon.


You didn't grasp the moral of the story, but cheers anyway.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com


(in reply to XYisInferior)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Worship a Female sub. - 8/5/2009 10:25:37 AM   
ignoreme


Posts: 49
Joined: 12/26/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
There are more matriarchal societies still, today, though these are small and looking as though their chances of surviving aren't great. 


Indeed, although I don't think their chances of surviving are low because they are matriarchal, but because in general all differences between communities and countries are disappearing due to globaliziation. In my opinion, matriarchy could work just as well as patriarchy once did (with this I'm not implying we should go back to that).

quote:


Society, I think, is part natural and part construct. 

A large part at least must be a construct, because through the ages different societies have lived in entirely different forms of government, social norms, caste differences, and so on. It will keep changing in the future. My point was that it is impossible to reject a society because it is not 'natural' beforehand.

quote:


Women, on the whole, might make better managers and leaders.  I'm aware of studies that say this.  But when it comes to choosing which individual person you want, for example, to run a country - knowing this doesn't help.  You'd have to look for specific qualities in the candidates, regardless of their sex. 

That women are better leaders does not mean that you can pick any woman and make her president. You still have to pick one with actual leadership qualities :)
quote:


That's what I mean by 'meritocracy'.  To do otherwise - to pick a female candidate would be to prejudge her as better just because she's a woman.  That is, it'd be to pick her on the basis of prejudice.  In exactly the same way there is, no doubt, old 'evidence' that whites are better at leading than blacks.  That doesn't matter either - it's the individual, not the group, that counts. 

Yes that would be prejudice. This makes me think of Tyranny_of_averages. The mean doesn't tell anything about the actual distribution.

quote:


The general change hasn't been towards seeing this or that 'group' as better or worse than another.  In fact, the general change has been against seeing people in terms of groups at all. 

True -- well, at least the old fashioned groups like white people, black people, women, men, are 'out of fashion'. I'm pretty sure there will be new groups and prejudice based on genetic traits in the very near future. I don't think we're moving away from prejudices in general, just on to new ones.

But yes, it's indeed unlikely we're moving toward having women as leaders. Unlikely, but not impossible.

quote:

Even if there were widespread belief in the superiority of women over men in a large range of qualities, for most people, it still wouldn't feel more rational to think that way. 

Well, we could get in a whole discussion here whether most people vote rationally, and what part "modern rationality" really plays in government issues, but I think it's better not to :)

(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: Worship a Female sub. - 8/5/2009 11:12:58 AM   
XYisInferior


Posts: 166
Joined: 2/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

For the zillionth time, Inferior - these facts (even if they're true) - wouldn't matter. 



Rest assured they are facts, but it's clear they don't matter to you. We'll let everyone else make up their own minds.




quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
You didn't grasp the moral of the story, but cheers anyway.


Actually, you framed the moral of the story—from your perspective—quite well. Rather revealing, in fact. Cheers, indeed.

_____________________________

S a h a r a h E v e . c o m

Do your own homework. Write your own stuff.


(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Worship a Female sub. - 8/5/2009 10:25:32 PM   
hardbodysub


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quote:

irreprehensible


?

(in reply to XYisInferior)
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RE: Worship a Female sub. - 8/6/2009 5:35:57 AM   
KCalli


Posts: 81
Joined: 8/4/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

quote:

Don't be surprised if someday you run into a female sub with the opposite belief, male supremacy, and each time you call her Mistress, she lowers her eyes and begs this "Lord and Master" to call her by her slave name. If you humbly beg to serve such a woman, she may very well fall on the ground before you, groveling and beging to clean your toes with her filthy unworthy mouth. A clash of ideologies like that would be
something to see, actually!...and maybeto wager upon, as in which person will ultimately "out-sub" the other? :D


LOL, what a scene that would be! Club Fem vs. Gor, with both combatants trying to lose. I love it!


Oh, yeah, just great, made me spit my coffee all over my screen.....ROFL. i want tickets. This I MUST see...ack!!! What a hoot!

(in reply to hardbodysub)
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RE: Worship a Female sub. - 8/6/2009 7:46:35 AM   
XYisInferior


Posts: 166
Joined: 2/17/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KCalli


quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

quote:

Don't be surprised if someday you run into a female sub with the opposite belief, male supremacy, and each time you call her Mistress, she lowers her eyes and begs this "Lord and Master" to call her by her slave name. If you humbly beg to serve such a woman, she may very well fall on the ground before you, groveling and beging to clean your toes with her filthy unworthy mouth. A clash of ideologies like that would be
something to see, actually!...and maybeto wager upon, as in which person will ultimately "out-sub" the other? :D


LOL, what a scene that would be! Club Fem vs. Gor, with both combatants trying to lose. I love it!


Oh, yeah, just great, made me spit my coffee all over my screen.....ROFL. i want tickets. This I MUST see...ack!!! What a hoot!


An example that you can think what you want, but sometimes acting upon it without consent wouldn't be such a good idea.

_____________________________

S a h a r a h E v e . c o m

Do your own homework. Write your own stuff.


(in reply to KCalli)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Worship a Female sub. - 8/6/2009 11:07:18 AM   
serverbob


Posts: 7
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As one who believes in feminine supremacy, I agree.  As such, I respect her decision to serve a man and would never be disrespectful enough to question it or suggest she do otherwise.  If this seems a contradiction, I apologize.  In fact, one of the finest relationships I ever had was with a woman who "switched".  She loved to express her authority over me (her reality) but also liked to be submissive to other men (her fantasy).  The result was that she expressed her authority and supremacy as a woman by exercising her right to act as she chose.  I suppose I am jaded by the experience.

(in reply to slavemick63)
Profile   Post #: 92
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