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RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 7/30/2009 8:34:25 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		There is no definitive way to tell.

Yet, it is possible to determine at least a sensible track record from the actions/tasks set forth which cancan be verified (written word, auditory, webcam-visible). Technology is so readily available, I'm sure you could even require that certain tasks be videotaped and sent as well, but you use the same process as any other.

For instance, you form the expectation that someone you're about to marry won't cheat on you based on the fact that they haven't thus far, for a good certain period of time.


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I know they're all insane
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I know that I'm to blame."
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(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 7/30/2009 11:49:37 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince


From either the D or the "s" perspective how faithfull are instructions, suggestions, or orders followed when on line with no actual ability to determine if they have been performed?

CP


I could really care less if she comply with my instructions.  Were I so inclined to do the online thang...  it would be to have hot n steamy phone phun.  Sultry voice is a plus ...Southern accent may require a heart montier.

BadOne


quote:

I could really care less if she comply with my instructions. Were I so inclined to do the online thang... it would be to have hot n steamy phone phun. Sultry voice is a plus ...Southern accent may require a heart montier.

BadOne


SB,

Ok so on line is not your thing; but how do you know for sure what is happening on the other end of the phone line.

CP

(in reply to SailingBum)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 7/30/2009 12:03:57 PM   
TakeuBeyond


Posts: 6
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline 		webcam.

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 7/30/2009 2:58:04 PM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

lizi,

I get where your coming from, but that poses the question as to what he was doing as your dominant in the first place??????

CP


CP, at the time you think it's the right person to be with and you usually go into things with an openness that is hard to match later on. You find out with time that people may not be who you think they are - I mean hopefully people live up to our expectations but sometimes they do not and you don't know that until you have been disappointed by them. This particular relationship I referred to did not last so you were right in fact that he should not have been my Dom in the first place.

I guess that's what I'm speaking of. I want someone to be my Dom that I believe in enough to just do what is asked of me. If that's not what I actually do then it's not working for either of us...but how did it get there? I thought that was at the heart of your original question - it's the relationship you have at the time with the person that dictates how well you follow or do not follow his/her wishes.

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 7/30/2009 3:17:09 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		Have read the thread though again. I have a few more pennies' worth to add.
A dom gives orders online a s a means of 'getting closer' or exerting control so that he may do so one day in real life/real time.
A submissive responds based upon the wish that he will become her dom in real life.
There are two powerful psychological processes involved.
The first is projection... projection the desire to control, and projecting the desire to obey onto a screen, into a string of words known as an email, or via an IM or web cam
The other process is introjection: internalising what is asked, or internalising that it has been completed.
We all project into the here and now according to patterns of projections we have used in the past (expectationas) and we all introject according to patterns (assumptions).
But projection and introjection happen in real life as well and are no more powerful or any weaker as psychological patterns simply because something is virtual or real.
sense modalities such as touch, tastes and smell are missing that's all.
Introjections happen when we are together or apart. They happen when we are sleeping in the same bed or sleeping separately in different rooms, in a cage or a different continent.
The medium is the message: that's all. And if the message is an INTENT to form a relationship then that relationship will form indifferently of the distance and modalities involved.
Now if he projects control and I introject compliance what the hell does it matter if it is via a cam, a phone, a touch, crack of the whip or pigeon post? if I project willingness and he introjects trust then game on. Let's call it playing ball.
Of course, on line, as in real yime, any one within a relationship can get defensive and the projection and introjections are non congruent. Someone drops the ball or ducks out of the way or just throws it back so hard as a fuck you signal. She expects that if she is compliant enough then one day they will meet real time. He assumes this is just on line play. He says we will meet if our paths cross. It's all about the mindset to begin with. The whistle blower of a fuck up. That can happen anywhere anytime in any modality as well.
Two pence worth.



< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 7/30/2009 3:21:16 PM >

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(in reply to lizi)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 7/31/2009 6:12:01 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kallisto

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

In My case with clip, I'd say the chances are pretty good.  On more than one occasion, I've had people in other locations send Me unsolicited comments on how he's behaved at different lifestyle functions in other areas.  Even without My intending it, they've told Me that he's followed his instructions on various things.  I appreciate these types of notes quite a bit.



LP,

Grins, power is a wonderful thing when used properly.

CP


CP, I thought the  very same thing when I read LadyPact's post, but could not think of a way to express my thoughts.   You certainly did, though.     

quote:

CP, I thought the very same thing when I read LadyPact's post, but could not think of a way to express my thoughts. You certainly did, though.


kallisto,

Great minds run like railroad tracks.

CP

(in reply to kallisto)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 7/31/2009 11:23:32 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

For me online and D/s dynamics don't mix unless I've met someone in real time and formed a successful relationship with them.

However I'm of the opinion that if you can't or are not prepared to keep your word, then it's pointless you getting involved in WIITWD.


quote:

For me online and D/s dynamics don't mix unless I've met someone in real time and formed a successful relationship with them.

However I'm of the opinion that if you can't or are not prepared to keep your word, then it's pointless you getting involved in WIITWD.


stella,

ok, lets say you have met a few times; do you then follow thru with all instructions/order from Dominant on line?



CP

(in reply to stella41b)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 7/31/2009 7:12:50 PM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

If I say I'm going to do something I'm going to do it, but that's just because well I'm me. However, I could never expect the person on the other side to believe me.
buuut the bottom line with me is, I don't believe in online so I'm not going to submit online, did one attempt but lol never again, it felt too stupid, however if a person asked of something non-submissional thing that I could easily do for them then it'd be no more of a problem than real time.


quote:

If I say I'm going to do something I'm going to do it, but that's just because well I'm me. However, I could never expect the person on the other side to believe me.
buuut the bottom line with me is, I don't believe in online so I'm not going to submit online, did one attempt but lol never again, it felt too stupid, however if a person asked of something non-submissional thing that I could easily do for them then it'd be no more of a problem than real time.


butterfly,

Sounds as though your relationship had not matured into the kind of bond that is available when one wants it to be.
Thanks for your input.

CP

(in reply to subtlebutterfly)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 8/7/2009 8:45:45 AM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

During a recent convo this subject came up for discussion and the different responses / applications that may come up with a relationship whether it is real time, on line or a mixture of both depending on the relationship. Thus I present this perplexing problem to the vast knowledged that is displayed here on a daily basis........... errrrrrr pretty smart anyway.

From either the D or the "s" perspective how faithfull are instructions, suggestions, or orders followed when on line with no actual ability to determine if they have been performed?

CP


Depends on how well you know the performee and what you feel about their level of commitment as well as their level of integrity.

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 8/7/2009 8:49:37 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		There are plenty of tasks and orders for which visual evidence can be procured. I'd presume once these are shown to be followed on a consistent basis a certain trust begins to flourish with further tasks, whether they can be demonstrated or not.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 8/7/2009 10:44:24 AM   
Arillis


Posts: 75
Joined: 10/28/2008
Status: offline 		I think the real question here is, is it really about a trust in performing tasks or services when one is not within your immediate periphery or is a there another more personal insecurity issue surfacing.?
As a former Marine during fire fights I trusted without question the Marine on either of my flanks with my life. I didn’t have to see every round coming from his weapon or even hear those rounds to know my life was in good hands I simply trusted his training and dedication. When I called for air support I trusted the Marine pilot and didn’t have to see him neutralizing with extreme prejudices the targets he was given, I simply embraced the strength of tried and proven abilities to trust and in so trusting, I too was held to a higher order of trust.

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 8/7/2009 4:23:56 PM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline 		I think it helps to follow your instincts on this one. For me there are cues people give out when they are not being trustworthy that you can pick up on.

Some people trust you immediately and expect you'll do whatever is needed to obey every command. Others, maybe those who have been burned by unstrustworthy people in the past, proceed very slow, with very trival things infrequently given then slowly ramp up the freqency and invasiveness of the commands. You're not being insulted by the second type, you're just dealing with someone who is gunshy, who has had bad experiences and expects to have more of them, I think.

Webcam alternative: I do a good amount of virtual world interaction (or did, not so much recently) and to me these seem like good places to test out commands and watch how they are, or are not, or are partially obeyed. Things are verifiable in those places, moreso in some than in others.

(in reply to Arillis)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 8/7/2009 7:22:25 PM   
yummee


Posts: 111
Joined: 5/31/2009
Status: offline 		~FR~

When Master and I were LD, I obeyed.  Trust had/has nothing to do with it.  He had access to all my IM and mail accounts and their passwords.  I was not allowed to delete or edit emails or conversations.  He installed RADMIN (some program so he could pull up my screen on his own computer 3000 miles away.  I think he had a keylogging program too.  He had a lot of fun feeding his inner voyeur snooping through everything on my computer and occassionally taking control while I was typing.  It made me feel closer to him and secure in a situation where I would normally feel insecure. 

There were 2 downsides.  1) I spent more time on the computer than I would have otherwise.  It made me feel close to him to think he may be watching me at this very moment. 2) I gave that computer to my mother a couple of years ago and told her the program was on there and I needed to remove it.  She said to keep it on there so he can fix her computer LD when she screws something up, lol.

Respectfully,

amy

(in reply to CaringandReal)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 8/7/2009 8:40:41 PM   
VanIsleKnight


Posts: 283
Joined: 8/4/2009
Status: offline 		About year or two ago, a good friend of mine decided that a win-win relationship was in order.  She's a huge sub despite being in a position of authority over probably hundreds of people, and I was having confidence issues.  We were big cybersex fiends and she offered the idea of being my slave girl, and I agreed.  There wasn't really much to prove that she did as I asked aside from second-hand accounts from mutual friends that lived in the same area as she did (who are actually big D/s themselves) so it all came down to trust.

I suppose I just got lucky in that I knew her beforehand for a good length of time, already built up a strong friendship with her and knew how insatiably -horny- she is.


_____________________________

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(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Validity and Trust while on line - 8/7/2009 9:09:41 PM   
pleasuredancer


Posts: 39
Joined: 6/14/2007
Status: offline 		When I first got into this, I had men want to cyber-dom me. I thought it was silly and I couldn't take their "commands" seriously. Flash forward several years to about two years ago, when I started chatting with someone. He never tried to do D/s with me, though some naturally crept into our interactions. Never a command from him and only a request or two through the years. At this point, heh, I would jump on a plane at a moments notice to go see him, should he ask. And I think that is the key. When a dom(me) waits until the sub wants to follow a command, then it will certainly be followed. With joy and abandon and panting for more. Attempting control before the sub is begging for it is much harder to maintain. Patience, domly ones, pretend like you are interested, but not going to demand... yet, and the subly one will be begging and panting for your control.

(in reply to VanIsleKnight)
Profile   Post #: 55
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