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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 10:14:45 AM

Esinn

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quote:

patheis

quote:

ORIGINAL: UglyTruth

I'm a little surprised. I figured there would be more atheists here. You know, like me.

Why?

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 10:18:37 AM

FullCircle

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I've had this conversation here before that people really need to recognise the difference between the terms agnostic and atheist since being atheist means you wouldn’t even consider to be true the existence of any supernatural being as told of by religion or through individual spirituality.

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 10:56:46 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

It is self-evident any supernatural being is beyond human comprehension

Technically, I think the term for this is 'agnostic' -- you accept the possibility that there may be some supernatural being... but don't think that anyone can quantify it. Some agnostics will go a little further and include that, even if there -is- some supernatural 'something', and even if it somehow created the universe in which we live, it is irrelevant to the current world and doesn't care about what it left behind here anyway.

DC

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 11:00:35 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

I've had this conversation here before that people really need to recognise the difference between the terms agnostic and atheist since being atheist means you wouldn’t even consider to be true the existence of any supernatural being as told of by religion or through individual spirituality.

Ok, I have a question for you. I acknowledge the definitions as you've listed them -- but what about those who don't believe in the existence of any supernatural being or beings, but still believe that life includes a quantum-energetic component that is not bound by physicality? I've never quite figured out where this fits into the picture. They're not agnostic, because they don't believe in any supernatural creator/god/etc... but they're not really atheists, either, because they do believe that life is comprised of more than a few dozen chemical elements and some electrical impulses.

Thoughts?

DC

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 11:32:58 AM

OrionTheWolf

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Funny that so many people equate religion to Christianity. Maybe some could explain how Taoism fits into the bad ideas of religion, like evil and de-education?

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 12:09:58 PM

subtlebutterfly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

I am not a religion, I am spiritual, I find no need to have to identify with any named organized religion so people can feel comfortable celebrating or chastising My orientation.

I agree with miss almighty

however..I'm registered as a lutheran in the books but I honestly don't care.
Following the zen from buddhism and then from certain aspect of heathenism..

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 12:25:13 PM

FullCircle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
Ok, I have a question for you. I acknowledge the definitions as you've listed them -- but what about those who don't believe in the existence of any supernatural being or beings, but still believe that life includes a quantum-energetic component that is not bound by physicality? I've never quite figured out where this fits into the picture. They're not agnostic, because they don't believe in any supernatural creator/god/etc... but they're not really atheists, either, because they do believe that life is comprised of more than a few dozen chemical elements and some electrical impulses.
Thoughts?
DC

I am not familiar with this concept unless you are speaking of a kind of shared consciousness where by which it is theorised human consciousness exists outside of normal space and time and thus isn’t affected by the destruction/creation of the universe? I think it would depend on what was believed to be the origins of this thing you speak of i.e. was it created randomly or with intent rather than the question of whether or not it can be proven to exist.

What I find amazing and unrealistic about the idea of intelligent design is the size of the universe compared to the tiny areas where intelligent life could exist; those who could then come to believe in some kind of creator. Seems intelligent design is very wasteful and when people talk about how wonderful the earth is and how everything on it works so beautifully as if designed by a higher being they should then ask themselves why that is the exception to the rule; as the majority of the universe is very chaotic and suits no intelligent life form or recognisable natural process other than the eventual end of the universe.

Also I’d say agnostic for me means that everything is unknown about the existence of god that includes the question as to if god exists at all. The only sensible route is to say ‘I can’t prove the existence of god one way or another so I am undecided.’ Atheists would argue with me on this but there is no evidence that god doesn’t exist so their lack of faith is no different to someone else having faith; both are based on the same lack of evidence. This is what infuriates me about some people because they’ll bring up religious misnomers as evidence god doesn’t exist. Why is anyone looking to disproven texts to answer some questions in either a positive or negative way. Religion has such a strong influence that people think disproving it disproves god? Whereas I would not take anything from it one way or another.

Sorry for the length but it turned into a bit of a irrelevant ramble, if I didn’t answer your question it’s probably because I didn’t understand it so perhaps rephrase it to give me another chance please?

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 7/27/2009 12:26:20 PM >

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 12:32:00 PM

Brain

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Now, Atheism and I agree with Bill and George and Science

Bill Maher lays waste to Religion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYW2xXxFVtU&feature=related

George Carlin - Religion is bullshit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

The Birth of the Universe Big Bang and Beyond

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSZqhqR5XKM

Evolution Deep Sea Vents and Life's Origins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JzUgi6YNlY

The Diversity of Development: Embryos and Evolution

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UbpL83oJNo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Euctv%2Etv%2Fsearch%2Ddetails%2Easpx%3FshowID%3D13545&feature=player_embedded

NOVA The Elegant Universe Watch the Program PBS

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 12:48:45 PM

FullCircle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Funny that so many people equate religion to Christianity. Maybe some could explain how Taoism fits into the bad ideas of religion, like evil and de-education?

Well I didn't mention any particular religion I go by the ones I am familiar with and see a pattern of control. Sure others may exert benevolent control but it is still control and an intent to shape the world to a particular limited human viewpoint.

Interesting that I didn't mention Christianity so does this mean you admit Christianity is evil and de-educational?

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 12:54:33 PM

slaveboyforyou

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I consider myself a Deist. I just don't believe the Universe is an accident.

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 12:58:58 PM

keary

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I aint got one

< Message edited by keary -- 7/27/2009 12:59:27 PM >

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 1:50:58 PM

OrionTheWolf

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No I admit that when most people say "religion" or comment on "religion", they usually are thinking of Christianity. Taoism attempts to control nothing. (Taoist will get it)

Here is what the tao Te Ching says about control:

The Way flows and ebbs, creating and destroying,
Implementing all the world, attending to the tiniest details,
Claiming nothing in return.

It nurtures all things,
Though it does not control them;
It has no intention,
So it seems inconsequential.

It is the substance of all things;
Though it does not control them;
It has no exception,
So it seems all-important.
The sage would not control the world;
He is in harmony with the world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
Funny that so many people equate religion to Christianity. Maybe some could explain how Taoism fits into the bad ideas of religion, like evil and de-education?

Well I didn't mention any particular religion I go by the ones I am familiar with and see a pattern of control. Sure others may exert benevolent control but it is still control and an intent to shape the world to a particular limited human viewpoint.

Interesting that I didn't mention Christianity so does this mean you admit Christianity is evil and de-educational?

< Message edited by OrionTheWolf -- 7/27/2009 1:52:59 PM >

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 2:31:51 PM

Brain

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Greek Orthodox, but now I'm an atheist.

This was a great show because he asked himself similar questions. It’s very informative.

Who Wrote The Bible? (1/12)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suseKsLEWKo

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 4:15:23 PM

willbeurdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

I've had this conversation here before that people really need to recognise the difference between the terms agnostic and atheist since being atheist means you wouldn’t even consider to be true the existence of any supernatural being as told of by religion or through individual spirituality.

Ok, I have a question for you. I acknowledge the definitions as you've listed them -- but what about those who don't believe in the existence of any supernatural being or beings, but still believe that life includes a quantum-energetic component that is not bound by physicality? I've never quite figured out where this fits into the picture. They're not agnostic, because they don't believe in any supernatural creator/god/etc... but they're not really atheists, either, because they do believe that life is comprised of more than a few dozen chemical elements and some electrical impulses.

Thoughts?

DC

But the "quantum energtic component not bound by physicality" IS just some electrical impulses. They are atheists, as am I, since I was about 14 and had been to comparative religious classes for 5 years.

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 4:52:30 PM

bdswitch

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I've been an atheist since about 8 years old. I think most people in the U.S. think of Christianity when speaking of religion because it is the dominant religion here (and not in the good Dom way).
Agnostics who believe in a god that is not involved in his creation are Deists who don't know the correct label.
Anyone who understands the scientific method acknowledges that our knowledge is limited, when they went to split the atom the average person thought it could not be done, when Einstein developed the theory of relativity, the average person thought Newtonian physics were written in stone, in quantum mechanics, they don't always apply. The whole point of science is to keep asking questions, the main point of most religions is to stop asking them. Science says that magic doesn't exist, it seeks explanations, not faith. What appears magical or miraculous can be proven to have rational processes at work, faith is one big "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" multi-trillion dollar Ponzi scheme. It is not evil inherently, but anytime you absolve people of the responsibility for their own decision making, the primary motivations of humanity -to feel better about themselves at any expense -lie, cheat, steal, murder, seem to surface, and to do it in some God's name while He sits by and allows it has always seemed to me the best evidence against Him existing. (Other than Douglas Adams' theorem.)
I do think atheists are somewhat more represented here than in the general population, as they are with increasing education level. Although I have been discriminated against by a member here, most amusingly. He sent a message stating I would be the perfect Domme if I was not an atheist. I did answer back, asking how his devotion to the Bible fit in with being a sub male. When he answered from the Apocrypha and quoted it as biblical, I left it as that.

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 5:03:57 PM

subtlebutterfly

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What I don't get is the constant need for people to beat down other peoples believes, whether it's religious, spiritual or science wise.
Just because I'm not religious I'm not going to go against everybody that hangs a sign above their door sayin god bless us all or whateva or the allah's spirit protects this house.
I'm also certainly not going to justify my believes on the expense of others.
and to quote
"The whole point of science is to keep asking questions, the main point of most religions is to stop asking them."
Now this is ignorance in it's purest form.

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 5:21:43 PM

OrionTheWolf

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I had a philosophy professor explain it to me once. If someone is wrong about science, then there may be an explosion when you did not think there would be one, if someone is wrong about romance then you might get your heart broken, if someone is wrong about polticis, then an asshole may be in office for a few years, if someone is wrong about religion, they may be fucked for eternity or face oblivion. Being fucked for eternity or consciously admitting to yourself there is nothing afterwards, is something many people cannot face. So the issue relies often on not just belief, or the absense of belief, but on the fact of proving the opposite side wrong. This is of course when dealing with religions that promise something after life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subtlebutterfly

What I don't get is the constant need for people to beat down other peoples believes, whether it's religious, spiritual or science wise.
Just because I'm not religious I'm not going to go against everybody that hangs a sign above their door sayin god bless us all or whateva or the allah's spirit protects this house.
I'm also certainly not going to justify my believes on the expense of others.
and to quote
"The whole point of science is to keep asking questions, the main point of most religions is to stop asking them."
Now this is ignorance in it's purest form.

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 5:43:11 PM

littlewonder

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I was raised as dunkard brethren and so many of my beliefs still linger from how I was raised but I do not really attend church unless I'm visiting family.

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 6:35:34 PM

autoRelease

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Agnostic nihilist Gaia hypothesist who practices Zen here.

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RE: religion question - 7/27/2009 6:39:17 PM

subfever

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fadedshadow

i'm going to ask this simply out of boredom

what's your religion and how long have you been said religion?

We can't possibly know whether a higher power exists or not, unless it does exist and also chooses to make itself known to the masses. So far, this hasn't happened yet. Therefore, we can only believe that it exists or doesn't exist.

This being the case, the only rational conclusion is "I don't know." Both theists and atheists alike may want to ask themselves why they choose to believe in something they can't possibly know for sure.

Religion has been and continues to be slavery, a tool to control and usurp followers. A world without religion would be a much better place and many years closer towards enlightenment. Religion and politics are the primary tools to keep humanity at war with itself.

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