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Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 3:30:43 AM

LillyoftheVally

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Why o why does it seem so many of us when we walk wide eyes into BDSM or D/s or M/s or whatever the heck you want to call it forget that we are actually human beings.

"My dominant is ignoring me, but thats normal right" - He probably isn't that interested
"My dominant wants me to do something I really don't want to do, but thats what its about isn't it" - Don't do anything you really don't want to do.
"I don't like blood, so I can't be in this 'lifestyle can I" - Why the hell not?

Would people put up with as much in real life. Do we need validation on every single motivation, desire and need? Do we have to moderate our ethics, morals and values?

I have never heard anyone say, "To be a true woman you have to ..." So why is it such a common phrase here.

Life is a lesson, we learn who to be throughout our life, it changes and diversifies, we do question it but how many of us consider absenting ourself from the category of human, I know that I never have. The problems that we come up against here are no different from those in any other area of relationships, sure the 'activity' may be different but still the answers are the same. Always be true to you, and allow others to do the same, bloody simple really, so why are grown adults still struggling with it so much.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

Post #: 1

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 3:32:55 AM

BitaTruble

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quote:

so why are grown adults still struggling with it so much.

In a nutshell? Folks try to fit life into BDSM instead of BDSM into life. Most learn even if it takes some of us longer than others.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

Post #: 2

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 3:38:09 AM

CatdeMedici

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and to add to Bita's post, people look for escapes--escapes from having to do the right thing, escapes from having to shoulder life's responsibilities and many enter these "hallowed halls" thinking its an opportunity to escape from the realities of life, or domineer their way through and let someone else do the work.

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 3

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 3:49:52 AM

stella41b

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Coming out of the enclosed space of a box, all that infinite space outside the box does tend to get scary for some people... I think....

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Post #: 4

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 4:18:11 AM

Prinsexx

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The Fear of Freedom by Erich Fromm
This book changed my life:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=TvFSXhLg-SgC&dq=Erich+Fromm+the+fear+of+freedom&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=8xoSEW4DBB&sig=hcsZ-0a0vBJCg9_bvyVbA7ieew0&hl=en&ei=7t1uSpziDOHRjAeaqIySBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5

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Post #: 5

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 4:29:50 AM

barelynangel

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To me i believe a lot of it comes from the OMG PANIC LEAVE LEAVE LEAVE concepts and responses you get on discussion boards such as this --- of all the oh no that guy is an ass etc. The majority of responses to questions on this board along tend to gravitate towards the pessimistic side, the you need to leave side etc. So for people who aren't secure in what this all means to them want to JUST BE SURE, because many replies tend to be the sky is falling chicken little concept.

Whne you have that response you condition people to automatically question things like is this right, am i doing this right, i feel comfortable but maybe its still wrong.

When you breed pessimism, you have kids who grow up pessimistic and questioning looking for something wrong and less likely to explore without back up and/or approval. When you breed optimism, you have kids who grow up optimist and more capable of exploring and deciding things can be achieved than not be achieved and will be more likely to not need approval or back up so to speak..

Same thing when someone is new and is unsure -- a group of people will either breed pessimism or optimism.

angel

angel

_____________________________

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
R.W. Emerson

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 6

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 4:34:12 AM

LillyoftheVally

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quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

To me i believe a lot of it comes from the OMG PANIC LEAVE LEAVE LEAVE concepts and responses you get on discussion boards such as this --- of all the oh no that guy is an ass etc. The majority of responses to questions on this board along tend to gravitate towards the pessimistic side, the you need to leave side etc. So for people who aren't secure in what this all means to them want to JUST BE SURE, because many replies tend to be the sky is falling chicken little concept.

I am reading a book at the moment, called 'he is just not that into you'. When it is right then both people make an equal amount of effort, who wants to be with someone that isn't that into you. I actually really agree, I have been very very optimistic in relationships 'oh you will leave your wife? ok then... oh not at the moment? But you will still leave? Ok then...You can't leave, oh right well umm bye then' sometimes erring on the side of cynicism is a far better way to be.

However I do agree, sometimes we cry to leave way too quickly sometimes there are valid reasons for behaviour, rare, but sometimes.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to barelynangel)

Post #: 7

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 4:42:18 AM

Kalista07

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You seriously don't think this is a concept that is just applied to the BDSM area of life do you? You've never heard a person say "To be a true woman you have to have children..." or "To be a true woman you have to be under a size 9" or "To be a true woman you have a man" or some other crap. i think it becomes from a place of inadequacy. i think it comes from a place of always looking for external validation. i think it is a mistake to think it's something that only occurs to people connected to BDSM.
Although, truth is it's also entirely too early for me to be thinking,
Kali

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“Love me when I least deserve it, because that's when I really need it.”
~~Sweedish Proverb

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 8

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 4:44:27 AM

LillyoftheVally

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Joined: 7/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07

You seriously don't think this is a concept that is just applied to the BDSM area of life do you? You've never heard a person say "To be a true woman you have to have children..." or "To be a true woman you have to be under a size 9" or "To be a true woman you have a man" or some other crap. i think it becomes from a place of inadequacy. i think it comes from a place of always looking for external validation. i think it is a mistake to think it's something that only occurs to people connected to BDSM.
Although, truth is it's also entirely too early for me to be thinking,
Kali

Kali the difference with your ideas is that you don't decide to not be a woman. People have prejudice about it sure, and yes people do self impose the idea that women are meant to be soft and fluffy and all that crap, but they don't decide not to be one.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to Kalista07)

Post #: 9

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 4:59:13 AM

cpK69

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~fr~

You make the statement “life is a lesson”, claim, “we learn who to be” (I would say, “who we are”) "as we go", and then ask why it is so hard for grown adults to be true to themselves.

Still learning?

For some, becoming involved in D/s relationships is very different than previous non-D/s relationships. The experience can cause one’s perception of ‘what is’, to be turned completely upside down, so that, what was familiar ground, starts to appear just as unstable as the new information being established. Whatta russsh!!

Is it un-human to admit we may not know all there is to know, including that which would constitute the truth of who we are?

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

Post #: 10

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 5:00:52 AM

LillyoftheVally

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Joined: 7/22/2009
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Though I see your point, I would say that while we are learning what we will become that doesn't stop us being what we are at that time

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to cpK69)

Post #: 11

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 5:15:29 AM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalista07 You've never heard a person say "To be a true woman you have to have children...

Yes: over large parts of the Indian sub continent.
I don't mean to be snarky here but we are (myself included) so culture bound sometimes.
And I am drawing an analogy here to the bdsm world. It's a minority interest and yet we project it out there as if our values (my values0 accrue to everyone.
We have a mentoring system and it never ceases to amaze me how many subs need a mentor after a split... believing as they do that it is all their fault and that they are solely to blame and are 'bad' subs.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 7/28/2009 5:16:45 AM >

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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
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Post #: 12

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 5:19:59 AM

cpK69

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

Though I see your point, I would say that while we are learning what we will become that doesn't stop us being what we are at that time

When I first became involved in D/s relationships, the alteration of my perception of who I am was so great, I stopped believing I know who I am.

I started to realize many of my previous actions, while I had thought were intended toward one goal, were the result of another I had no idea even existed.

My immediate response to my realizations “My life is a lie!”

As it turns out, that wasn’t such a bad thing, but when it first hit me, it was a huge shock.

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

Post #: 13

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 5:23:59 AM

IrishMist

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Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

so why are grown adults still struggling with it so much.

In a nutshell? Folks try to fit life into BDSM instead of BDSM into life. Most learn even if it takes some of us longer than others.

Bingo

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 14

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 5:42:34 AM

stupidcumbucket

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

so why are grown adults still struggling with it so much.

In a nutshell? Folks try to fit life into BDSM instead of BDSM into life. Most learn even if it takes some of us longer than others.

Very good statement. I think you hit it on the head.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 15

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 6:00:28 AM

ChainedExistence

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Maybe because this isn't something we "learned" from general society? When you are growing up as a woman, you have lots of role models to observe- your own mother, grandmothers, women friends of your parents etc. You have television, magazines, books, and other avenues where different types of women are shown, and you use it form some kind of "image" of what being a woman is. Society presents a much wider viewpoint on that today, but not so when most of us were growing up. However, I don't recall one single image of woman enjoying pain or bondage (if they were in bondage...it was always a bad thing) in anything I saw as I child. I only had my own instincts of what felt right to me, and I thought I was "weird." So, of course I asked lots of questions when I first found other people sort of like me-I needed to come to terms with the idea that this is just another way of being ( a woman, a submissive, a slave, a human) that other people share. So, the questions don't seem so odd to me. Heck..people in non-BDSM relationships ask some of those same things, too. "he said he would call, but he hasn't called for three days...what do you think that means? "He acts like he likes me when we are alone, but around his friends he ignores me, does he really like me or not?" That's the reason relationship books sell so well! Relationships are challenging anyway, and throw in a mix of BDSM, and you reduce the number of people to whom you can address your concerns. I think most people have a sense of wanting to belong, and if what you feel as a Dominant, submissive, switch, etc puts you outside your "normal" group, you want to find a "new normal." I suppose there is a need for some sort of validation if what you've observed from the rest of society doesn't seem to fit your particular situation.

(in reply to cpK69)

Post #: 16

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 6:05:09 AM

DomImus

Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally
"My dominant wants me to do something I really don't want to do, but thats what its about isn't it" - Don't do anything you really don't want to do.

Selective submission does seem to be the rule rather than the exception, I have to admit.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

Post #: 17

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 6:14:38 AM

cpK69

Posts: 1593
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChainedExistence

Maybe because this isn't something we "learned" from general society? When you are growing up as a woman, you have lots of role models to observe- your own mother, grandmothers, women friends of your parents etc. You have television, magazines, books, and other avenues where different types of women are shown, and you use it form some kind of "image" of what being a woman is. Society presents a much wider viewpoint on that today, but not so when most of us were growing up. However, I don't recall one single image of woman enjoying pain or bondage (if they were in bondage...it was always a bad thing) in anything I saw as I child. I only had my own instincts of what felt right to me, and I thought I was "weird." So, of course I asked lots of questions when I first found other people sort of like me-I needed to come to terms with the idea that this is just another way of being ( a woman, a submissive, a slave, a human) that other people share. So, the questions don't seem so odd to me. Heck..people in non-BDSM relationships ask some of those same things, too. "he said he would call, but he hasn't called for three days...what do you think that means? "He acts like he likes me when we are alone, but around his friends he ignores me, does he really like me or not?" That's the reason relationship books sell so well! Relationships are challenging anyway, and throw in a mix of BDSM, and you reduce the number of people to whom you can address your concerns. I think most people have a sense of wanting to belong, and if what you feel as a Dominant, submissive, switch, etc puts you outside your "normal" group, you want to find a "new normal." I suppose there is a need for some sort of validation if what you've observed from the rest of society doesn't seem to fit your particular situation.

Very much how it was for me, with a twist of "Alice In Wonderland".

Kim

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to ChainedExistence)

Post #: 18

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 6:19:16 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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ChainedExistence nailed it on the head for me, That relationships are challenging anyways. BDSM itself has never been much of an issue for me personally. The Relationships themselves is where the greatest challenge has always been.

I would dare say that most of the issues I've had to face or deal with in the last 7 years with partners are/were Human Behavior issues that have been or were completely foreign to me.

I think we are used to a set of certain Human behaviors. We grew up with human behaviors in our own families. We know those behaviors like the palm of our hand. We also grew up getting used to the Human Behaviors of friends and other people we encountered along the way.

However, it appears there is an almost never ending supply of people with completely different issues and behaviors we have not encountered nor experienced before.

All of which has very little to do with BDSM itself, and everything to do with being human.

I never was the kind of guy to sit for hours to read up about all the different spins and issues of human behaviors. I've always figured things out along the way in any of my relationships. However, I am questioning things a little more.

Again, the BDSM never really has been much of an issue for me. With exception of the time period I tried to squeeze myself into some idealized vanilla Jello mold. That did not work out so great. Regardless, with or without BDSM involved, these issues apply to BDSM and none-BDSM relationships. It's all Human being kind of stuff that it unavoidable.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

Post #: 19

RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 6:31:50 AM

agirl

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Joined: 6/14/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

Why o why does it seem so many of us when we walk wide eyes into BDSM or D/s or M/s or whatever the heck you want to call it forget that we are actually human beings.

Because they DON'T walk into it with their eyes wide open. If that was the case there would be far fewer struggles and problems of the very basic kind.

Few people grow up with personal knowledge of successful, working, thriving, happy, content, expicit D/s relationships. It's something the majority of people *come across* or discover exists, after childhood, NOT something that's *usual* and natural in terms of relationships.

agirl

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

Post #: 20

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