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RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 9:01:37 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		I don't really mind if what I am is or isn't submissive by anyones definition, as has been mentioned compatibility is an issue. It is interesting as this thread is about being human and it has been broken down to what it means to be submissive. Being a submissive to me is probably not what it is to other people, and to be honest I care not a jot about it.

As to the carling thing, yup and it is yummy :P

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 9:05:25 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

I don't really mind if what I am is or isn't submissive by anyones definition, as has been mentioned compatibility is an issue.

Good mentality to have. For what it's worth, though, I personally wouldn't decline you the term.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

It is interesting as this thread is about being human and it has been broken down to what it means to be submissive. Being a submissive to me is probably not what it is to other people, and to be honest I care not a jot about it.

Well, you have to care a little. How else does anyone find someone who matches them well?

Yes, yes...I get your point, though. Hehe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

As to the carling thing, yup and it is yummy :P

Trying to derail the thread further? Hmm? I'm more of a stout person, myself anyway.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 9:08:21 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

It is interesting as this thread is about being human and it has been broken down to what it means to be submissive. Being a submissive to me is probably not what it is to other people, and to be honest I care not a jot about it.

Well, you have to care a little. How else does anyone find someone who matches them well?

Yes, yes...I get your point, though. Hehe.



Ok mr persnickety :P To be honest though, if I am in a satisfying relationship it really doesn't matter what terms are used to define it.

quote:


Trying to derail the thread further? Hmm? I'm more of a stout person, myself anyway.



Eww stout is an old man drink...checks profile... yeah sorry seems about right

< Message edited by LillyoftheVally -- 7/28/2009 9:09:46 AM >

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 9:08:54 AM   
wineDineNtieMe


Posts: 52
Joined: 7/9/2009
Status: offline 		I haven't read any of the responses yet, so I'm sorry if someone has already said this...

I think maybe the need for validation of (what seems like) everything in BDSM comes from the fact that anything remotely related to BDSM is viewed as deviant behavior in "the vanilla world" or looked down upon and scorned in some way. As a result, I feel, people come to places like these boards to get the validation from anonymous strangers who they hope are like minded individuals.

I guess what I'm basically saying is people just want to feel they belong. That they are not weird, that someone else has been where they are. Then they post questions that deep down they know the answers to because sometimes you just have to hear it from someone else who might, just might know where you're coming from.

But hell, what do I know. This is my best guess.



_____________________________

When everything feels like the movies, you bleed just to know you're alive.
-Goo Goo Dolls, Iris

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 9:14:11 AM   
mrbob726


Posts: 155
Joined: 4/15/2007
From: Illinois
Status: offline 		Just did a web search on Carling, it appears it's only widely available in the UK - I used to enjoy it here in the US about mmmm years ago - and yes, it was yummy -
(back to the regularly scheduled program)


_____________________________

"Love many, Trust few, Harm none" (Yau Man, Survivor Fiji)

"If builders built buildings the way some programmers write programs, the first woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization."

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 9:15:08 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mrbob726

Just did a web search on Carling, it appears it's only widely available in the UK - I used to enjoy it here in the US about mmmm years ago - and yes, it was yummy -
(back to the regularly scheduled program)




Im from the UK so that probably explains it

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to mrbob726)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 9:46:13 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		"being a human being" comes with a wide variety of behaviors which not all human beings participate in...the specific behaviors don't make them any less or more of a human being...just maybe not the sort of human being you personally want to associate with...e.g. Charlie Manson.
 
the examples given,"My dominant is ignoring me, but thats normal right" or  "My dominant wants me to do something I really don't want to do, but thats what its about isn't it" or "I don't like blood, so I can't be in this 'lifestyle can I" don't strike this slave as having anything whatsoever to do with being human or forgetting to be human.

they strike this slave as having more to do with:
an individual's fulfillment (or not)
the concept of being true to one's nature
obedience
an individual's unique preferences as to what turns them on(or not)
a need to consider one's self "normal"
confusion regarding the specific relationship they have entered into
 
as opposed to being based on an arbitrary concept of what "being human" means.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 9:50:13 AM   
TurboJugend


Posts: 481
Joined: 6/15/2009
Status: offline
quote:

Forgetting to be a human being


the behaviour you mention in the first post...is what makes them a human beeing.
can't name an other species acting as weird..lol

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 9:53:06 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		Beth, What i meant was forgetting the lessons that we have learned in our life.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 9:58:46 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

Beth, What i meant was forgetting the lessons that we have learned in our life.


well, then this slave is suggesting that it might not be memory loss related.
 
not everyone learns from their lessons or goes through the same lesson as the next person, or they might be at that particular lesson for the first time...so there is nothing for them to remember...hence the repetitive theme of struggle and questioning.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 7/28/2009 10:06:05 AM >

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 11:22:27 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
Aha! this is my new pet peeve.

Thie above has become a common mentality as far as BDSM is concerned, but really it has nothing to do with an ideal or how "impractical" it is (which is only really a measure of odds and variables...to that extent playing the lottery is "impractical").

Perhaps. And I suppose if someone said to me that they had this vision of what they wanted and they understood that they'd be lucky to find that thing before the heat death of the universe much less in their lifetime, but they'd prefer nothing over the wrong thing... well... fine I guess. Such things are certainly not my way of thinking but it's not my life either. I get a little less comfortable though when people propose highly unlikely things then act put out when they don't show up.

quote:

People who hold up the concept of "fantasy" BDSM (I'm also slowly starting to think there is no such thing as "fantasy"...and that the concept of "fantasy" is itself a fantasy, but I digress!) seem to be suggesting the argument that, in a situation where naivete or inability to reconcile what they seek with who they choose and their efforts to make it work, it is the concept that's the problem. This makes no sense. It's equivalent to saying that a faithful, harmonious marriage of 40+ years is a "fantasy" and people shouldn't attempt it based on the percentage of instances of infidelity and divorce.

I don't disagree with this. I myself don't really think I have a fantasy life anymore. OK seriously, I have a woman who to the best of my knowledge will do anything. So that pretty much means there's no fantasies... just stuff I haven't gotten arounnd to yet. I also have been wondering at what, exactly "fantasy" is. In this discussion, I think the more precise way to say "fantasy" in my original sentence would've been:

"Things developed in some work of erotic fiction which are highly unlikely to translate well into an actual relationship"

quote:

It strikes me that those who would seek to blame the concept they chose to pursue when the pursuit ends badly are not taking the responsibility to shoulder their own failed efforts on being able to effect the things they wanted.
I really think this is one of those "we're both right" scenarios NZ. Consider. I totally agree with you on the personal responsibility angle. However, as I noted above, there can also be flawed concepts... not wrong ones... flawed ones. And yes, I'm willing to blame such a concept rather than the failure to execute to it.

In at least one genre of BDSM porn, there seems to be a common theme of "kidnap girl. rape & torture girl. kidnap girl's friends & family additionally. rape & torture same." Now, if that's what I'm into and I decide that I am perfectly willing to wait until the heat death of the universe to find a girl (and family/friends) for whom this would work then bingo! It is my right to want that if I can find a truly consenting adult. It becomes flawed, however, when I start making it internally inconsistent by thinking that it's going to happen in my lifetime or that it's particularly likely such a woman would be otherwise a sane and happy life partner and a zillion other things.

So yeah, you can have both a flawed plan and flawed execution. Both exist.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 1:49:52 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wineDineNtieMe

I haven't read any of the responses yet, so I'm sorry if someone has already said this...

I think maybe the need for validation of (what seems like) everything in BDSM comes from the fact that anything remotely related to BDSM is viewed as deviant behavior in "the vanilla world" or looked down upon and scorned in some way. As a result, I feel, people come to places like these boards to get the validation from anonymous strangers who they hope are like minded individuals.

I guess what I'm basically saying is people just want to feel they belong. That they are not weird, that someone else has been where they are. Then they post questions that deep down they know the answers to because sometimes you just have to hear it from someone else who might, just might know where you're coming from.

But hell, what do I know. This is my best guess.




Not a bad best guess either.

(in reply to wineDineNtieMe)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 4:18:15 PM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

so why are grown adults still struggling with it so much.


We actually aren't struggling a lot, that applies just to those who spend 28 hours a day online. When you do that, triviliaties balloon.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 4:33:10 PM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: antipode

quote:

so why are grown adults still struggling with it so much.


We actually aren't struggling a lot, that applies just to those who spend 28 hours a day online. When you do that, triviliaties balloon.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJnog_DqcqA

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to antipode)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 5:53:51 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

Why o why does it seem so many of us when we walk wide eyes into BDSM or D/s or M/s or whatever the heck you want to call it forget that we are actually human beings.



The horse-tail butt plug kinda blurs the line.



_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 6:47:59 PM   
matt321123


Posts: 4
Joined: 6/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

It is interesting as this thread is about being human and it has been broken down to what it means to be submissive.

I was about to point that same thing out.


quote:

I guess what I'm basically saying is people just want to feel they belong. That they are not weird, that someone else has been where they are. Then they post questions that deep down they know the answers to because sometimes you just have to hear it from someone else who might, just might know where you're coming from.

Thats not restricted to just this board or lifestyle though. There is a reason like people tend to flock together.


Part of being human though is pushing yourself beyond what you are comfortable with or what you want in the short-term to get what you'd rather have in the long term, whether that is pushing yourself to workout to be healthy, to study that extra hour to get your degree, to do that one task Master assigned to please him, or avoiding friends one night to have full weekend with them. Then again, the short-term gratification is needed every now and then too.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/28/2009 8:25:44 PM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline 		A significant factor in this is the tendency of many BDSMers to infantilise female submissives.  And I'm not talking about ageplay.  I'm talking about people who respond to the question:

I have been collared to MasterREALMAN for 2 weeks, although we haven't met in real life yet.  Now he says that I need to sign the deeds of my house over him.  I don't want to be a bad submissive but I don't know if I should do this

by replying

Ooo, no, he is a bad dom and you should run away!

as opposed to the correct answer which is

You're 43 years old.  What the fuck do you think?

Even better, actually give the sensible reply and watch the white knights charge into the fray!  To tell off the meanie and reassure the submissive that "don't worry, he can't be a real dom if he talks to you like this".  Even better, suggest that if somebody really doesn't know the answer to that question they aren't ready for a relationship and see the outrage boil over.

So our submissive gets the message that she is not responsible for her actions and that BDSM means never having to make adult judgements.  And our white knights are free to get on with writing their masterpiece for new subs (never doms, funnily enough) "A guide to keeping safe for our ickle precious princesses".  Which contains such staggering insights as

If a dom at a play party tells you that you have to play with him, you do NOT.  You should say "No" and run and find a responsible adult and we will tell you that you are a very brave girl and give you a lollipop.  Because real doms like us respect girls. 

Yeah.  If you have to have the concept of "consent" explained to you, maybe not ready for play parties yet.  Obviously, no submissive who isn't a moron, psychologically damaged to a major degree or a tabloid journalist will touch the author with a bargepoll.  But that's ok.  Because either it's for the internet fame.  Or it's so he can pull those who are actually that fucked up.  Thankfully, this at least has more comedic potential than the last.  As the authors of these pieces are frightfully precious.  If you're new to the art of "fucking with idiots online", may I suggest any of the following opening lines will be a great introduction:

  1. Actually, I don't use SSC.
  2. Not all BDSMers enjoy public play.  Some of us are private.
  3. Does anybody wanna fuck?
  4. Not all inexperienced doms are dangerous.  In fact some new submissives may prefer that to someone like you.
  5. Have you ever seen a girl naked?  The internet doesn't count.


_____________________________

If you're going to quote from the Book of Revelation,
Don't keep calling it the "Book of Revelations",
There's no "s", it's the Book of Revelation,
As revealed to Saint John the Divine.

(in reply to matt321123)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/29/2009 2:15:09 AM   
jeninvegas


Posts: 79
Joined: 6/11/2009
Status: offline 		Amen, OP!

_____________________________

"If you're going through hell, keep going..." -Winston Churchill

"9 out of 10 guys like girls with big boobs; the 10th guy likes the 9 other men." --Just Shoot Me

"Baby, when it's love, if it's not rough, it isn't fun." Lady GaGa.

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/29/2009 2:22:12 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

In at least one genre of BDSM porn, there seems to be a common theme of "kidnap girl. rape & torture girl. kidnap girl's friends & family additionally. rape & torture same." Now, if that's what I'm into and I decide that I am perfectly willing to wait until the heat death of the universe to find a girl (and family/friends) for whom this would work then bingo! It is my right to want that if I can find a truly consenting adult. It becomes flawed, however, when I start making it internally inconsistent by thinking that it's going to happen in my lifetime or that it's particularly likely such a woman would be otherwise a sane and happy life partner and a zillion other things.

So yeah, you can have both a flawed plan and flawed execution. Both exist.

Yet, the only thing that qualifies a plan as flawed is if it is not successful. The only thing that makes it flawed is the individual's inability to reconcile its likelihood with reality. We're not talking of a BDSM's Schrödinger's cat.

If a plan, goal or ideal is flawed in and of itself, it must be flawed before its attempt is begun and still be so regardless of the outcome. To balance the determination of the flaw status of a plan after the fact is just post-prophecy. It's still all just about odds; and the only flaw lies, frankly, in the statistical ignorance of the one attempting to play his/her hand.


< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/29/2009 2:27:29 AM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Forgetting to be a human being - 7/29/2009 7:38:30 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
Yet, the only thing that qualifies a plan as flawed is if it is not successful. The only thing that makes it flawed is the individual's inability to reconcile its likelihood with reality. We're not talking of a BDSM's Schrödinger's cat.

OK, I don't know where you are going here NZ. Do you want my approval that you can be as picky as you'd like? You have it. Are you seriously arguing that there is no such thing as a flawed "mating plan"? You're not going to convince me of that so we can just agree to disagree. It's not that relevant anyway.

quote:

My personal preferences aside, I'd say if there is even one facet of your life that you surrender completely to your partner (color of your fingernail polish?) that you are on the submission scale.

Heh, I think we are ALL on the submission scale. I see that as a basic part of human nature right along with dominance. The real question is where on that scale. I believe the answer to that question is highly situational.

quote:

I haven't had the pleasure of meeting you both personally, but from what you've described I'd say she does trust you as completely as can be. But that doesn't mean that she is consumed with an irrational idea that you cannot and will not make mistakes...only that you are of sufficient character that you can realize and/or admit when that's the case and adjust accordingly. That's still trust.

Obviously Carol trusts me in some way, but aren't we beginning to play word games here? What I was pointing out is that absolutes are hard to come by in the real world. I'm not absolutley trust worthy. She's not absolutely submissive. I'm not a paragon of virtue, etc. For me personally, this is an important point. Remember that I am as we speak considering what sort of theoretical commands Carol would not obey and deciding how I feel about that. This really gets down to how much am I going to chase a word like "total". Heh, all except for it's way not sexy enough, don't I wish they had called it something like, "Adequate Authority Transfer" *chuckles*.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 60
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