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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 7/30/2009 4:13:20 PM

PeonForHer

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This thread seems peculiar to me. I don't need or want a dominant to be anything other than I'd want from a vanilla partner - except the desire to dominate.

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 7/30/2009 9:29:33 PM

catize

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My submission is greatly dependant on my own self-control. I am the one who determines that I will obey, submit, and accept his decisions. I am the one responsible for my behaviors on this side of the kneel.
If I meet someone new and don’t like or trust him, he could have cast iron self control and I wouldn’t submit.
But……………
If I like him, trust him, and have agreed to submit to him, then his excesses are a part of the relationship, So when I am told to go to the drive-thru and buy him double burgers with biggie fries and coke, that is what he gets—with a smile added on. If he wants me to watch movies that are guaranteed to short circuit synapses and kill neurons, I’ll fix him a drink and sit by his side during the show.

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 7/31/2009 7:18:43 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Does the dominant who controls his temper...but with the occasional mild outburst, who smokes... but is courteous and considerate enough to take it outside or not do it around his non-smoking submissive, who runs a large corporation and manages his employees in a competent, professional manner...but who occasionally shows his sensitive, vulnerable, fallible side to his submissive have less self-control than the non-smoking dominant who never loses his temper and never seems to be wrong but who cannot seem to find a position any higher than go-fer?

Quite possibly. Why not? Professional success is certainly one (possible) indicator of a stable personality, but it is by no means the only one and certainly not the most reliable one. Your example doesn't give us enough information about either subject to make an accurate comparative evaluation of their personalities. There's no reason at all to assume that the first guy is obviously a more stable, controlled man primarily because he's achieved professional success.

And for that matter, why does it have to be a zero-sum equation? It's just as possible that, in the eyes of many submissives, neither man meets their standard of personal control. They both have obvious strengths, but they both also have obvious weaknesses. I don't see any inherent reason to believe that either man is clearly ahead of the other in this comparison.

Ahhh but you see Panda...so many of the examples given for a dominant who has self-control are more about control over his life and those things that happen. While I go along with the idea that much of what life brings us, we initiated, I am also one of those types who cares more about how they handle the mistakes they made to get to that point than I am about the all-too human tendency to make mistakes in the first place. Now...if they were to recover themselves completely and then go out and make the same damn mistakes---like my cousin has on 4 separate occasions---then I would begin to wonder about his control over his behaviors.

The zero-sum equation comes in from those asking the question "If he can't control his addiction to smoking, how can he control me?" To me, that's pretty much zero-sum---the inability to control one vice while everything else in his life may be perfect.

For myself, I would find it easier...and preferable... to deal with a submissive who looks at all of me and, instead of taking one flaw and applying extra scrutiny to see where else I might be fucking up, looks at those good traits I have and sees how I apply those across the board of my behavior and the quantity of time I spend displaying those rather than the quantity of time I display the bad. A submissive who looks at the way I handle past mistakes and the mistakes I make now and whether or not I learn from them and how I control my life and hers overall rather than in one small area. And though I know it's not the only thing being spoken of here, the tobacco issue IS a small thing. I dont' smoke...never cared for it. But the inability to stop smoking? Whooo-hoo. Inability to stop hitting people every time I lose my temper? Big thing. Losing my temper and going out and pounding on a piece of sheet metal in my shop until I am thinking clearly again? Good handling of anger (according to most therapists).

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 7/31/2009 7:42:13 AM >

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 7/31/2009 5:57:43 PM

LATEXBABY64

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smoken in the subs room domme don t ya tell me all of your rules cause everybody knows that smoken aint aloud in the room

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 3:58:12 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Dominants: how important is self control to your "vision" of dominant behaviour? Has it ever been an issue for yourself?

Very important. I would agree that where you can't manage your own instincts then you'll struggle to manage someone else's. Yes - it has been an issue in the past - I imagine that everyone has erred at some stage - that's part and parcel of being a human being; but there are degrees of erring. When I talk about erring I'm not talking about addictions and violence; I'm talking of rising to the bait - something which you can learn to manage where you want to.

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 7:23:54 AM

angelikaJ

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

"...when they can't even control themselves?"

Submissives: ever been turned off a dominant by a real or percieved lack of self control on their part? Temper, poor habits, etc?

There have been a couple of threads of late both here and some place else that have highlighted this as an issue.
I don't personally know any of the dominants who have posted but from their postings, it has not put their dominance in a favorable light as perceived by me.

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 8:01:28 AM

Level

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Self control has been something I've worked on, and struggled with, my entire life. I have a bit of a temper, but my control over it has gotten better, and no, I've never put my hands on anyone in anger (unless they did so first). And, I like to think that my willingness to take responsibilty for my actions, and work to rectify them, makes up for some of my shortcomings.

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 8:32:44 AM

LadyPact

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I'm sorry to say it, Level, but personally, I'm not a fan of the phrase.

There are things in life that would absolve Me of control. Physical health, emotional well being, and circumstance can be some of these. I don't care how much anyone thinks they are a big, bad Dominant. There are things above self control. Your own cellular structure could betray you and become an illness that does not give a damn what you say. I can promise you that there are people that, if taken from this earth, there would be no way to control My tears. That doesn't make Me less of a Dominant. It makes Me more of a person.

If that makes Me a lesser Mistress in some eyes, so be it.

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 10:43:16 AM

DemonKia

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FR, after read thru (& yeppa, still sneaking away from my vacay to CM, lol)

Yee-haw! This was an excellent thread to read this fine Sunday morning -- thank you much, Level . . . . .

A coupla thoughts I had to add to the stew . . . .

First, a crucial distinguisher for many of these kinds of discussions, for me, is the idea of 'pattern' .. . .. . There's a big difference to me between a 'spot of issue' & a 'pattern of issue' . . . . . So, with regard to self-control or as I prefer to think of it 'self-discipline', I look for patterns rather than focusing on this or that spot indicator . . . . . .

The other bit that was speaking to me in this discussion was the 'self-destructive' behaviors thing, as exemplified by the smoking thing. (Personally don't have a problem with smokers as long as they can take it outside. My lungs have little tolerance anymore for exposure to smoke of all kinds, but I kinda like the smell still . . .. . ) I kept flashing on the potentially destructive set of behaviors that annoys me maximally, which is individual automobile use / dependency. There's the obvious destructiveness of getting in an 'accident' thru crap driving skills & etc, but there's the less-obvious aspect of how car use promotes obesity & a lack of adequate exercise, which is not terribly popular to consider . . . . . . & there's also the prioritization thing that I'm just not that into spending that big a chunk of whatever income I have on the car thing . . . . . .

Or communication 'styles' & learned behaviors around communication. I'll take a tobacco-smoker with great communication skills over a non-smoker who whines & complains & is stuck in a 'negative communication space' any day of the week, all else being relatively equivalent . . ....

Which leads to the notion, for me, that much of this varies quite a bit from individual to individual as to what constitutes 'problem behaviors' . . .. . .

Compounded by that ever-popular lack of 'perfection' in most . . . . .. (In my case, all. Have yet to meet a perfect being, personally . . . . . ) As a pragmatist, I weigh the thises & thats & try to be reasonable & realistic rather than holding out for some not-so-attainable ideal, which is one of my tendencies . . ....

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 10:47:15 AM

hlen5

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

"...when they can't even control themselves?"

Submissives: ever been turned off a dominant by a real or percieved lack of self control on their part? Temper, poor habits, etc.......

Yes.

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 10:49:57 AM

LadyHibiscus

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Kia, I live in suburban metro Detroit... we have no public transit, and many work FAR from home. So yeah, we need our cars! I still do that 70's thing of planning my trips in a big circle, do the shortest-distance trip thing, shop close to home, lalala, but hey!

On other fronts...

I am not sure why smokers are so picked on, as opposed to the rest of us that have our pleasures that are not so good for us. Smokers ENJOY smoking. Yes, it is a Bad Thing as far as health goes. So? Does a person lack personal control because they have made a less-than-healthy choice?

This notion that we must be perfect humans in order to be dominant is horse hockey. When I was young, I was thin, fit, and HEALTHY. I am a much better dominant now, as an overweight sicko! I did not EXPECT to get sick! I just dealt with it! Do I do all the "right things" for myself? I do not. I make the choices that make me feel best.

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 11:36:57 AM

Level

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quote:

Lady Pact wrote:

I'm sorry to say it, Level, but personally, I'm not a fan of the phrase.

There are things in life that would absolve Me of control. Physical health, emotional well being, and circumstance can be some of these. I don't care how much anyone thinks they are a big, bad Dominant. There are things above self control. Your own cellular structure could betray you and become an illness that does not give a damn what you say. I can promise you that there are people that, if taken from this earth, there would be no way to control My tears. That doesn't make Me less of a Dominant. It makes Me more of a person.

If that makes Me a lesser Mistress in some eyes, so be it.

Well, it shouldn't, LP. I know, for myself, having self-control is not some sort of absolute state of being, where no tears are shed, where no human frailities exist.

quote:

Kia wrote:

Yee-haw! This was an excellent thread to read this fine Sunday morning -- thank you much, Level . . . . .

You're quite welcome, Kia , thanks for the input. I have to agree with Lady H though, regarding automobiles. Even without the necessity factor, I just plain love'em.

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 12:13:22 PM

RealSub58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

"...when they can't even control themselves?"

Submissives: ever been turned off a dominant by a real or percieved lack of self control on their part? Temper, poor habits, etc?

Hygiene is a big issue for me. I bath and clean up totally if I am going to meet someone.

I don't want to be on a "date" with a man who's hair is greasy, teeth unkept, sloppy shoes and who can't walk with some sort of self confidence.

Been there done that. Dumped them quickly. Learned fast.

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 12:54:38 PM

leadership527

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quote:

Level said:
Well, it shouldn't, LP. I know, for myself, having self-control is not some sort of absolute state of being, where no tears are shed, where no human frailities exist.

Wow, it sure sucks to be you. I achieved perfection last night at 5:47pm. So I'm looking forward to a nice relaxing day today of total self control in the absence of those nasty frailties that have so plagued me in the past. I have to admit I'm a bit baffled because I really should've gone to the tile store today and picked out tile for the bathroom, but instead I'm typing responses like this.

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 12:55:34 PM

Misstoyou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

"...when they can't even control themselves?"

I am *very* up front about my slight {koff} internet addiction.

So much for "self-control".

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 1:15:21 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

quote:

Level said:
Well, it shouldn't, LP. I know, for myself, having self-control is not some sort of absolute state of being, where no tears are shed, where no human frailities exist.

Wow, it sure sucks to be you. I achieved perfection last night at 5:47pm. So I'm looking forward to a nice relaxing day today of total self control in the absence of those nasty frailties that have so plagued me in the past. I have to admit I'm a bit baffled because I really should've gone to the tile store today and picked out tile for the bathroom, but instead I'm typing responses like this.

Well, now, there's a question.

Did Carol achieve perfection at the same time? Was she perfect first? If she was, then you followed her to perfection. If she isn't perfect yet, do you think that in your own perfection, you will be able to accpet her human frailties? If you're both perfect, does tolerance of imperfect others on the planet fit into the plan? Inquiring minds want to know.

Oh, one more. Is laughter permitted in perfection?

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 3:31:16 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

"...when they can't even control themselves?"

I am *very* up front about my slight {koff} internet addiction.

So much for "self-control".

Ummmmmmmmmhmmmmmmm. Hey, is that smoke coming off your computer?

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/2/2009 10:38:58 PM

DemonKia

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LadyHib & Level, I brought up the car thing to add to the diversity of what could be considered to be 'repulsive' / 'attractive' within these contexts we're discussing . . . . . *snicker* . . . . . & please note I'm currently posting from the Los Angeles urban area, a mecca for the individual-auto lifestyle, a place I lived for most of my teen years . . . . . . & I do understand that for a fair majority of the U.S. culture cars are either necessity or beloved objects . . . . I'm sufficient a freak that I'd be delighted to see them mostly rendered into planters (bring on the chain saws & the potting soil, lol) . . . .

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/3/2009 10:26:38 AM

shadowowl

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master thy self before you may master others.
If a D doesn't have control of themselves then to me they just seem like someone that is only a D cause they are lazy or incompetent :P I want them to bring out the best in me how can I expect that if they can't even do it with themselves? Prove you are superior to me and I shall bow down and obey all you ask, because I will know in my heart you are better and want the best for me.

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RE: "how can he/she control me..." - 8/7/2009 7:01:10 AM

Acer49

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

"...when they can't even control themselves?"

Submissives: ever been turned off a dominant by a real or percieved lack of self control on their part? Temper, poor habits, etc?

Dominants: how important is self control to your "vision" of dominant behaviour? Has it ever been an issue for yourself?

I have to exert some self control right now, and go to work

Self control is something one must always have. If someone is lacking in this area, they should not attempt to control another. As for myself, failure at anytime is not an option nor is it acceptible on any level.

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