Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message

Whiplashsmile4 -> Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 7:29:41 AM)

I'm a little hesitant about making this post this morning. I've been refraining from posting much in the way of my personal life and my LD relationship.

There is a lot posted on the topic of "Trust" and how important it is to D/s relationships and BDSM activities. I believe this is a safe statement to make "nobody is 100% honest".

My relationship is like anybody else's, I'm involved with another human being. Actually a very wonder and awesome girl. Yet, she is human. When I first met her, she told me she had more issues than Playboy. This is one thing I took to heart and took seriously when she said it.

If LA was still around posting on the message boards, she would say "when somebody shows you who they are you can believe it". So yes, my little girl has some issues. I knew I was getting involved with somebody with a number of issues. I myself have my own sets of issues as well. Nobody is perfect.

Now, we have reached a critical point in things between us. One of her issues has been causing problems in our relationship. It's less than honest behaviors. However, it's not permanently damaged my trust in her. Each time something has happened, I've pushed for something called "the truth". She comes clean with me. In fact she has come clean with me about a few things I knew nothing about. Which actually gained my trust.

My trust is not destroyed in her like she feels it is this very moment even.

Things were going really great between the two of us, in fact a lot of trust had been regained along with a good feeling of security between us. Then the unthinkable happened. One of her issues took hold of her. She did something that was needless. She did something to try to make me LIKE her MORE, and it was driven by some deep hidden pain. A pain/harm that was done to her in a previous relationship. I am going to refrain from going into detail, if I did it would be a violation of her trust in me.

What she did, she feels greatly ashamed and deeply embarrassed about. However, she did come clean with me about the reasons she did what she did. If she had not, I would say trust would be permanently damaged.

Now, ironic as it is. I once made a similar mistake myself in the past. It had not intended to cause anybody any harm to anybody. This goes back years ago in my life. It was a hard lesson for me to face and own up to. However, I had to build and maintain a facade of lies to cover up other lies. It all started off with one lie. One lie that leads to another lie to cover up that lie. Soon a mole hill grows and then it becomes a hill and starts to turn into a big mountain.

Anyways, my little started doing this and had boxed herself in. Trying hard to not get busted. The last thing she wanted to do was expose the fact she had not been honest. She was afraid of it damaging trust between us and everything going down the toilet. Even more so considering a few things that happened in the past. This actually is quite sad.

I ended up having to confront her about it, because she had been careless about something, and it was in plain sight that she was not being honest. Difficult, because i saw the small mountain of facade she was trying to put on to cover her own ass.

She feels ashamed and embarrassed greatly. For me, I just want her to knock off these kinds of behaviors. I can understand why she has done the things she's done. In my book trust is not totally damaged. It's something that can be regained and rebuilt.

Ironic, in so many ways I trust her without question. I just want her to knock off doing the things that damage or make me question what is really going on.

Earlier this year, I decided to make the move and start seeing a therapist. Somebody to help me sort out some of my own issues. I've shared with him what's been going on between her and I. My therapist is not telling me to run either. My therapist thinks everything would be alright if she was to stop doing some of the needless things she does.

My girl is saying things to me now, such as once trust has been violated on these levels it can never be the same or regained. She honestly feels/thinks all is lost between us. She herself is telling me something that probably many people on this board would give out for advice.

For me, personally, I just want her to knock it off. That would be the end of the problem or issue between us.

The things she does are a bit like storms that come along and damage a house. The house starts to get repaired and just when everything is coming together. Another storm comes along and makes a mess. The repair process starts again. This last storm was pretty bad. The house is still standing though.

I'm afraid though that I may have pushed too hard in trying to make her face up to the things she's been doing. That this is why she is feeling everything is screwed. I have not been very much of coddling mood. Just want her to knock it the hell off.

Anyways, I'm certain her and I ain't the only ones that have been faced with this. I'm not certain why I'm posting this to the message board. As I said in my OP I'm a little hesitant about making this post. I'm not really certain what I'm looking for in the way of responses.



dreamerdreaming -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 7:51:16 AM)

*hugs*  [:)]




Whenready -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 9:22:28 AM)

Think dreamer probably has the nub of it. Keep working at it - good luck!



antipode -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 9:26:18 AM)

quote:

I just want her to knock it off


Your posting is too cryptic for me to comment intelligently, I am sorry to say. Very generically, people don't change for any reason other than themselves, and even that often takes a very long time. I am not sure you're helped by a therapist who helps you blame things on your partner - perhaps you ought to consider couple therapy, or simply focusing tightly on what you can do to make it better. More often than not, that means splitting up, opening yourself up and deciding not to invite destructive behaviour into your life, which I believe is what you may have done.



marie2 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 9:37:09 AM)

Well, if she is showing a pattern of doing the same thing over and over again, I think the most important thing is to find out what exactly motivates her to do it, then try to work from that.  In other words, is it insecurity, fear of something etc etc.  Then try to explain to her that what she is doing is going to cause the demise of the relationship if she continues.



Gromgor -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 9:52:29 AM)

"I'm not mad that you lied to me. I'm mad that I can never trust you again." ~Nietzsche

This sums up, to me, this topic. The problem isn't the lie, so much as the effect of the lie on your interactions. The moment she stops lying is the moment she once again becomes someone you can trust.

My suggestion, dress up as a priest, put her in the closet on a chair, shut the door and tell her to confess to you through the door.

Then give her 10 Hail Mary's and make her swallow some truth serum. And by truth serum I mean big fat load of cum.



IrishMist -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 10:28:01 AM)

quote:

My suggestion, dress up as a priest, put her in the closet on a chair, shut the door and tell her to confess to you through the door.

Then give her 10 Hail Mary's and make her swallow some truth serum. And by truth serum I mean big fat load of cum.

You're fucking joking right?
[8|]

Whiplashsmile4:

Hmmm...not what you are going to want to hear, but it is my honest opinion.

You have got yourself into one hell of a mess here. You have a girl, who lies...we have you, who accepts it...since you accept it, she keeps doing it because she knows that YOU are going to forgive her and do nothing about it except complain a bit before letting her know that basically...her lying to you is perfectly okay.

You say that you just want her to stop it?

Ok.

then tell her that she HAS to stop or you are walking away. Period. End of story. Given how many times you say this has happened, this is the only course of action left to you.

Sorry...but there it is.



Padriag -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 10:44:07 AM)

Your post is a bit hard to respond to, I'm not sure if you were really looking for advice or just wanted to vent.  So I'm just going to share some impressions I picked up from your post... you can do with that information what you think is appropriate.

The one thing that stands out strongest to me is that you sound very frustated with a situation you aren't happy about but also aren't sure how to change.  You aren't at the point of being ready to walk away from it, but the situation is starting to concern you.

You'd like her behavior to change, you'd like her to deal with whatever these issues are and move forward.  But, she seems unable to do that or at least as quickly as you'd be comfortable with... and that is causing friction.

I also see you trying to justify things after the fact... minimizing her actions and her responsibility, minimizing your own feelings and concerns... all of it in an attempt to protect what you have invested in this relationship.  It's one thing to understand why someone did something... but that doesn't mean you hold them any less responsbile for their actions.  Don't forget the importance of setting boundaries... sometimes doing so is as much to protect yourself as it is to set goals an expectations for the submissive.

Deep down I think you know exactly what you want.  Don't hesitate to make that clear to her.  Setting some goals and expectations might help the situation... and if not, at least serve to let you know if and when it is time to stop investing further.



leadership527 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 11:00:33 AM)

How about just some words of encouragement Whip?

The pattern you are describing is common to pretty much every human being I have ever know. You yourself did this at some points in your life. So have I. Anyone who told me they didn't would get put in the "liar" category automagically in my head. The whole thing is just so.... well.... human.

It sounds to me like you're doing all the right things. Sure you have to delicately balance between carrot and stick here. Yeah that's hard... especiallly when you're in a stick mood but the carrot is a better choice (or vice versa). Don't get wrapped up in trust. Trust is not some simple 1 to 10 scale. It is a squirrely landscape of areas in which we have trust and areas that we don't. Anyone who says they trust another person completely isn't using their imagination enough. This is, apparently a nasty area for her and it'll take some time for her to develop new patterns. But it seems like you're doing all the right things. Just hang in there.



daintydimples -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 11:45:20 AM)

(I agree it's rather a cryptic post.)

The bottom line is that your girl has issues and is not honest with you. And you just can't build trust on dishonesty. That you understand her motivations and even sympathize does not change what is happening.

I suspect eventually you will not be motivated to be so forgiving.

Right now, your being so unforgiving is enabling her dishonesty.As has been pointed out, she has no motivation to stop. You seem to see something in her that makes you think she wants to change or is willing to (been there). I suggest you put some distance between you with the understanding if she can be honest, you might be able to move back to being close. But she needs to understand you don't build a relationship on lies.





CreativeDominant -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 12:23:39 PM)

Yanno Whip...you really are an upstanding guy...but part of what makes you so upstanding is the same part that is going to continue to cause you trouble. 

You have, at some level, the White Knight Syndrome.  You want to help this girl and, because you've invested a lot of yourself into her, your drive to help her is pretty strong.  But, my therapist taught me a long time ago that I had no business trying to be my partner's therapist.  The emotional involvement is one thing that makes it especially difficult but so does the time spent together as well as the types of interactions outside the trouble-area and the lack of expertise in therapy.  I have some sure...every health care provider does.  But that insight is helpful, it is not curative.  I would either suggest a therapist for her or I would take her into couples therapy---which might be the best choice.

In addition, you've got to stand up for yourself more...not just as a dominant but as a human being with a responsibility to your own mental and emotional health.  As a dominant, you have every right to set a standard of behavior for her to follow and if she cannot, even with disciplinary measures taken, then you have to be ready to walk away.  As a romantic partner, the same holds true only without the discipline.  Your continuing acceptance, without consequence, of her lying gives her absolutely no reason to discontinue it.  You might disagree and state "look at the tension between us...isn't that a consequence?"  Is it really?  If she lies to you and has done so in past relationships, then I would say she has "gotten used" to the so-called tension brought on by her lying.




n0c0sm0s -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 12:49:27 PM)

Mark my words:  If she'll do it to you once, she'll do it to you over and over again.  It's just a fact of life.



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 2:22:43 PM)

I want to thank everybody for their posts to the thread and for a couple of emails I've recieved on the other side. I apologize for being a little cryptic, i am trying to respect her privacy regarding specific issues and things that have happened, to which she feels greatly ashamed and deeply embrassed.

I like the way leadership527 described trust. trust is not some simple measure on a 1 to 10 scale. The reality is that I do trust her. Why? Because she has come clean with me about a number of things on her own. Stuff that I was unware about. This alone is a trust builder. In regards to other things, when push came to shove and she felt like things were goning to end between us, the truth came out.

This has been a difficult balance for me as a human being. Between Sticking up for myself, Sticking up for ethics or principals, and understanding the nature of her issues.



SnareMage85 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 2:56:05 PM)

Stop forgiving her. 

As long as you keep letting things go, she'll constantly continue to take a advantage of you.  She obviously hasn't stopped yet, and because she has no reason to stop, she won't.  It will continue on until she gets her issues worked out, and you letting it slide due to "understanding" isn't helping discourage the action, and obviously her own guilt over committing the action(s) is failing to discourage her; thus she continues to commit the action, because there are no real consequences to discourage the action.



leadership527 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 2:57:19 PM)

"Trust is not some simple 1-10 scale"

A way to demonstrate this is that Carol very definitely trusts me a great deal... but if you asked her whether she trusted me to file a piece of paper she'd asked me to file... heh... not so much. I trust Carol a great deal also... unless what we're talking about is getting to the airport on time.

"This has been a difficult balance for me as a human being. Between Sticking up for myself, Sticking up for ethics or principals, and understanding the nature of her issues. "

Heh, yeah. I can pretty much sympathize. As you might imagine, Carol's alchohol addiction certainly presented similar sorts of balance problems. I just kept telling myself, "nobody ever said it'd be easy." Try to keep your eye on the relationship rather than you or her as individuals and that will help.



kiwisub12 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 3:47:45 PM)

My Sir and i shared our life for a  while with a person who lied.  
Lied about things that didn't even need to be bought up.

Eventually, we didn't believe anything that was said by this person. We enjoyed this persons company, but didn't believe any story told. Kind of sad because the lies were not about our shared lives - they appeared to be a way to make the person more valuable to Sir or myself but obviously when the story fell through time after time, reality set in.

This was not something that could be cured by Sir or myself. It was obviously some need in the person that couldn't be fufilled by us.
I don't think you can "fix" your friend. She is going to have to fix herself.
And this type of problem isn't a quick fix.



Prinsexx -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 4:12:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

Anyways, I'm certain her and I ain't the only ones that have been faced with this. I'm not certain why I'm posting this to the message board. As I said in my OP I'm a little hesitant about making this post. I'm not really certain what I'm looking for in the way of responses.


I don't know why ou are posting this or what responses you will get. But here;s mine.
Trust is not the issue. Imperfection is.
My imperfection?
My issue?
I am self-deprecating. It's my default pattern.
And what I do to compensate for it is inflate who I am.
It doesn't feel like I am lying.
It doesn't even feel like self-defensiveness at the time.
But when I am through the pattern and in one of those rare spaces when i am congruent and feeling like the person other people say I am? Then I can see how self-deprecating I am.
The pattern usually has me release myself before I get released.
See: no one is perfect.
What's so strong about what you have said is that you are strong and you are willing to work at relationship.
Thank you so much for posting. I connected with the authenticity of it.



DesFIP -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 4:20:22 PM)

She can't just 'knock off these behavior'. They are mechanisms that kept her safe for many years and just as it took a long time to learn them, it will take a long time to unlearn them.

What you don't say is if she is in therapy for her issues. If not, she should be. It would shorten the unlearning of previously helpful, now damaging, behavior.

Beyond that, there are things you can do that will help. Keeping calm yourself when you force her to come clean, reassure her that it is safe to tell you the truth even after she's started lying, and what I find especially helpful is for him to hold me when I have something difficult to say.

It's hard to be afraid of someone when you're curled up on his lap, with his arms around you, his reassurances in your ear and his hands stroking your hair and back. Rule of thumb for you to remember; when someone acts most unloveable is when they are most in need of love.



leadership527 -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 4:27:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
She can't just 'knock off these behavior'. They are mechanisms that kept her safe for many years and just as it took a long time to learn them, it will take a long time to unlearn them.

Yes. Just Yes... to the whole post actually but especially to the gem I quoted above.

Sorry Des, if I had any points left, I'd have given some for that. I desperately need to say something smart somewhere to get a few more points.



lovingpet -> RE: Trust not the issue in stopping damaging behaviors (7/31/2009 4:57:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

when someone acts most unloveable is when they are most in need of love.



Yes indeed!

Keep in mind though, that love also involves helping the person grow and become a better, healthier, stronger person. Discipline and love are one and the same.

lovingpet



Page: [1] 2 3 4   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875