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RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 5:00:43 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

My understanding that the idea behind submissions is to, well..... submit.  The desire to obey should be a part of that.  If it isn't, there is an issue going on somewhere.


My Master has never punished me, corrected me, or displined me.  My desire to obey, to submit, is coupled with my desire to avoid at all costs any expression of disappointment from my Master.  His disappointment in me would be more of a crushing blow than any ass whuppin He might do.

My Master is also a sadist.  He will inflict pain just because He likes to.  He doesn't need a reason or occassion for it other than His whim. 

Just this morning I realized I had not washed His work clothes!  I immediately started His laundry, went to Him and told Him of my mistake and that it was being corrected.  The end result was, He had clean work clothes this morning and the knowledge that a mistake will never be covered up by me.  I suppose He could punish me for this error, but He also knows I have punished myself and still feel the guilt of it without His having to disurb His harmony.


_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 5:47:56 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

My understanding that the idea behind submissions is to, well..... submit. The desire to obey should be a part of that. If it isn't, there is an issue going on somewhere.


My Master has never punished me, corrected me, or displined me. My desire to obey, to submit, is coupled with my desire to avoid at all costs any expression of disappointment from my Master

(snip)

I suppose He could punish me for this error, but He also knows I have punished myself and still feel the guilt of it without His having to disurb His harmony.



And there is a great point, you say you have never been punished because you desire to obey, and of course sometimes you may make mistakes or forget things, it is then down the the dominant to decide of s/he wants to punish the mistakes, sometimes it would be counter productive to do so sometimes useful. The suggestion that for anyone to need to be 'punished' means that they are not submitting is a little short sighted in my opinion. The laundry example was a minor mistake but who is anyone else to say whether it warrants punishment or not?

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 8:47:19 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
My Master has never punished me, corrected me, or displined me.  My desire to obey, to submit, is coupled with my desire to avoid at all costs any expression of disappointment from my Master.  His disappointment in me would be more of a crushing blow than any ass whuppin He might do.

My Master is also a sadist.  He will inflict pain just because He likes to.  He doesn't need a reason or occassion for it other than His whim. 

Just this morning I realized I had not washed His work clothes!  I immediately started His laundry, went to Him and told Him of my mistake and that it was being corrected.  The end result was, He had clean work clothes this morning and the knowledge that a mistake will never be covered up by me.  I suppose He could punish me for this error, but He also knows I have punished myself and still feel the guilt of it without His having to disurb His harmony.


I have to tell you, eyesopened, I'm still rather disappointed that we never had the opportunity to meet before we both moved our separate ways. 

In sharing this, I think you go back to what I said in My first response to this particular thread.  The worst part of any punishment for many submissives is the fact that they feel they have disappointed or made their owner unhappy in some way.  In My experience, that is just as bad, if not worse than most physical punishments that can be dished out.  Couple that with a punishment that fits the infraction, not just some useless task, and many won't want to repeat whatever it was.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 8:49:20 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

And there is a great point, you say you have never been punished because you desire to obey, and of course sometimes you may make mistakes or forget things, it is then down the the dominant to decide of s/he wants to punish the mistakes, sometimes it would be counter productive to do so sometimes useful. The suggestion that for anyone to need to be 'punished' means that they are not submitting is a little short sighted in my opinion. The laundry example was a minor mistake but who is anyone else to say whether it warrants punishment or not?

I think one of us twisted My intent in wording there.  What might have been more direct in My meaning would have been if I had said that I punish if not obeyed.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 9:09:04 AM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It never ceases to amaze Me that a Dominant does not realize that the greatest punishment for a sub is the way they have disappointed Me.

Kind of explains why I've never had to punish for the same offense twice.



Yes!  Knowing I've disappointed Him is the most horrible thing ever.  That's worse than any physical punishment He could ever give me.  Also not being allowed to cuddle is right up there too.

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 9:36:31 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I think one of us twisted My intent in wording there. What might have been more direct in My meaning would have been if I had said that I punish if not obeyed.



Ahh sorry LP, I think I did misunderstand you then :)

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 9:47:08 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		No issue, lily.  I probably phrased it poorly. 

Never think that I can't admit a mistake.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 11:35:37 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Lady P, your comment that if the sub doesn't submit means there is an issue somewhere ought to tattooed on every new wannabe dom. Because that's what is always skipped in these how to punish posts. The person who wants a sub but isn't capable of inspiring submission or makes it impossible for them to submit by not solving the problem that prevents them from doing what they are told never accepts that as dominant they have responsibilities and not just rights.

The Man is the first one I've ever known who wants the responsibilities as much as the rights, and is capable of handling them. So there is no question about me submitting if I can. He merits it.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 11:38:00 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Des, I think you are too kind.  Not that the tattooing idea doesn't appeal to the Top side of Me.

My best wishes to you and The Man.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 12:13:22 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Have her put all her clothes on, sit in a chair across a table from you, and explain to you why she did what she did.
See...I LIKE this but I use it quite a bit of the time.  I am big on introspection and someone knowing their own motivations behind their acts.  Many submissives will ask the dominant "why" they are insisting on a particular behavior or on a specific act, wanting to know the "motivation" behind the dominant's request.  I always find this interesting in light of the fact that the submissive agreed to submit themselves to the dominant and the dynamic they both agreed to and that he was given the right to structure the dynamic as he saw fit.  Yet, some of these same submissives, when asked "why" they did this or said that will answer with something along the lines of "I don't know".  When asked if they thought about their choice or the consequences of their choice, they will state "I didn't think about it" or "I had no way of knowing what this might lead to".  Well, you would have...if you'd taken the time to think about it.  That is why this approach...though given as a disciplinary measure here...is an effective way to bring the submissive into the folds of the dynamic abd is most often used, in my case, during the whole "coming-together" phase.  I like intelligent submissives and to me, one sign of intelligence is thinking things through.  In a D/s dynamic, the thinking of things through---on both sides of the whip---along with communication, is a big way of avoiding problems.  Using this approach when a problem comes up, along with the feeling that comes from having disappointed me, can be very effective in pushing the submissive along towards approaching life in a thoughtful manner.  That doesn't have to take away from the fun of living life BUT it does serve as a reminder that they are no longer living life juist on their terms but on the dynamic's terms.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 8/3/2009 12:28:12 PM >

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 6:45:17 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I am big on introspection and someone knowing their own motivations behind their acts.  Many submissives will ask the dominant "why" they are insisting on a particular behavior or on a specific act, wanting to know the "motivation" behind the dominant's request. 

I always find this interesting in light of the fact that the submissive agreed to submit themselves to the dominant and the dynamic they both agreed to and that he was given the right to structure the dynamic as he saw fit. 


The problem here is that unless I knew why he wanted it, I couldn't agree that he deserved total submission. I had to know that he did think things out.

So in the beginning, submission wasn't total, it was primarily bedroom. As I learned over time that he did think things out, I didn't ask why nearly as much. Then I just asked if he had considered a possible downside of his decision. After longer, I didn't need to know his solution for the downside, just that he had considered it.

To get from the beginning to no questions asked took about 2 years living together.
Things just didn't occur that often that would demonstrate how well he thought things out. I suppose if more situations occurred more frequently it would have taken less time. But I'm happy to not have had that much drama.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 8:03:14 PM   
bitchsadie


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/15/2009
Status: offline 		What is punishment to one is not punishment to all. First of all, do you know the difference between a bottom and a submissive? Bottom does not mean submissive and submissive does not mean bottom. A Dom can bottom and a submissive can top. So why are you wanting to punish a bottom?

(in reply to UrbanSpider)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: true punishments - 8/3/2009 8:18:24 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		You have to know the person.  People can offer suggestions until the end of next week and it still won't really matter, until you know what specifically would be hated by the submissive in question.

(in reply to UrbanSpider)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: true punishments - 8/4/2009 2:37:24 AM   
Freakgirl4


Posts: 98
Joined: 6/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Yeah... the essay seems to be universally hated.

I quite enjoy the research/essay stuff...

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: true punishments - 8/4/2009 5:37:02 AM   
fadedshadow


Posts: 751
Joined: 4/27/2009
From: a place
Status: offline 		i'd rather write an essay than verbally say what i did wrong

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: true punishments - 8/4/2009 5:58:09 AM   
surfingmeerkat


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/20/2008
Status: offline 		OK, well I havent read the whole thread, most of it though, and my personal views on punishment are as follows:
If she enjoys pain, dont use pain as a punishment
The punishment must fit the crime so she associates it in her head and won't do it again - its no good just spanking or caning her for everything otherwise she'll know whats coming and can mentally prepare herself
I find that corporal punishment, as fun as it is, can often be treated with an attitude of "grin and bear it" by my sub and so something more mental and humiliating works better.

Just my tuppence worth.

(in reply to trappedinamuseum)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: true punishments - 8/4/2009 7:09:03 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I am big on introspection and someone knowing their own motivations behind their acts.  Many submissives will ask the dominant "why" they are insisting on a particular behavior or on a specific act, wanting to know the "motivation" behind the dominant's request. 

I always find this interesting in light of the fact that the submissive agreed to submit themselves to the dominant and the dynamic they both agreed to and that he was given the right to structure the dynamic as he saw fit. 


The problem here is that unless I knew why he wanted it, I couldn't agree that he deserved total submission. I had to know that he did think things out.
And as to him asking/commanding outside of things that you had agreed to or for new situations or even for doing things within the dynamic that you had both agreed to for the first time, I can see why you would...to a certain extent.  But I have to admit that one of the questions that would be running through MY mind would be "why did you agree to submit to these things in the first place if you were going to question the motivation behind each thing I ask of you?"  The other thing that I would be doing from my side of the coin would be seeing whether or not you could explain yourself and demonstrate your thinking things through as well as what you insisted on since that is a responsibility that falls on both sides of the dynamic.

quote:

So in the beginning, submission wasn't total, it was primarily bedroom. As I learned over time that he did think things out, I didn't ask why nearly as much. Then I just asked if he had considered a possible downside of his decision. After longer, I didn't need to know his solution for the downside, just that he had considered it.
To me, this seems a bit extreme but understandable given that anyone can call themselves a dominant but it is in the follow-through in terms of actions that complement what they say that shows that they are.

quote:

To get from the beginning to no questions asked took about 2 years living together.
Things just didn't occur that often that would demonstrate how well he thought things out. I suppose if more situations occurred more frequently it would have taken less time. But I'm happy to not have had that much drama.
No one can say how long that process will take.  I've had it take about 3 months and I've also had it take 18 months so I understand this quite well.  For me, as long as progress is being made and submission to me, and the dynamic, is occurring at a rate that can be seen and felt then it is good.

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: true punishments - 8/4/2009 7:31:26 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Well we were ldr in the beginning and thus it was primarily see each other once a month for mainly fun and games.

The stuff I needed to know about it detail was not usual relationship stuff. It was highly technical.

Basically he had started a home improvement business on the mainland, and I am in charge of rehabbing my family's beach house. Stuff normally done in houses built on foundations is not of any use in a house sitting on stilts to keep it above storm surges. The way you build a house that is lived in year round is not how you build a house that is not winterized and needs all the pipes drained at the end of the season.

I was familiar with the exigencies of a barrier beach and he wasn't. He was familiar with normal building procedures and I was not that familiar with it. Neither of us had any prior experience in how to roof a flat roof so it wouldn't leak. He found a new method more commonly done in California and researched it.

After a couple of years he became the person everyone in the family called for everything including talking them through how to get the tv to work when it had last been used for gaming.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: true punishments - 8/4/2009 10:25:16 AM   
petmonkey


Posts: 1053
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Freakgirl4

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

Yeah... the essay seems to be universally hated.

I quite enjoy the research/essay stuff...



A research essay task would be a reward for me, unless my use of semi-colons was heavily scrutinized and i had been refused a "Strunk & White" for reference. 

Just don't make me fill out forms.  i can't stand forms.  i even found filling out my profile a somewhat odious task.


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Be excellent to each other.


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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: true punishments - 8/4/2009 10:28:16 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		petmonkey I would like you to handle my taxes this upcoming year.

be a dear would you?

1040 Long

Steel

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(in reply to petmonkey)
Profile   Post #: 60
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