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What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 7:01:04 PM

caraV

Posts: 7
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline

If your slave told you she would quit a bad habit... i.e. smoking ... Cold turkey ... and she happend to have a few ciggies afterward... and didnt tell you... and the way you found out is because she was smoking while you where on the phone... and she simply just didnt think it was all that important to let you know she hadnt quite yet... would you consider that disrepect or just... lets say forgetfulness??? I think forgetfulness...

caraV ... JCVash's lil slut.

EDIT :

I told Master I would quit, and he agreed to support me in it, and it was in effect when I had another smoke

< Message edited by caraV -- 8/5/2009 7:25:38 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 7:18:56 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

Well, it very certainly is not forgetfulness. I give Carol some commands that are clearly not all that critical to me and sometimes she obeys and other times not. But I cannot conceive of this sort of thing as anything other than a very serious command. I would call it flat out disobedience and I'd release her.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to caraV)

Post #: 2

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 7:19:06 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caraV

If your slave told you she would quite a bad habit... i.e. smoking ... Cold turkey ... and she happend to have a few ciggies after ward... and didnt tell you... and the way you found out is because she was smoking while you where on the phone... and she simply just didnt think it was all that importent to let you know she hadnt quite yet... would you consider that disrepect or just... lets say forgetfulness??? I think forgetfulness...

caraV ... JCVash's lil slut.

If you haven’t quite quit, but are not honest enough to say you quit but not quite yet, then my opinion is that it is quite disrespectful to think/hope the other person is stupid enough to believe that it was forgetfulness.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to caraV)

Post #: 3

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 7:22:58 PM

caraV

Posts: 7
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline

well it was only 3 days and I had only smoked a few ciggies and I was not trying to be disobediant... I really didnt think to tell him... But I did infact buy another pack... I guess I was not considering my promise very well...

< Message edited by caraV -- 8/5/2009 7:28:22 PM >

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 4

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 7:26:22 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

I'm leaning toward willful disobedience, rather than disrespect. See, one cigarette could be something that 'forget' would cover. A few over a course of three days is not complying.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to caraV)

Post #: 5

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 7:29:08 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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Was there a timeframe on the order? "Stop smoking cold turkey by the end of the year" is different from "Never pick up a cigarette again, starting right now."

If he gave you an order like the first one, then maybe your not telling him about the cigs was a miscommunication of some sort. If he gave you an order like the second one, then I would consider your behavior manipulative.

As a general principle, though, cutting someone an order without providing that person with the tools needed to accomplish that order, is bad leadership practice. My sense of things right now is that he is a dom with weak leadership skills, and you are a sub with weak communication skills. Both of you own part of this mess.

Finally, I believe that thinking of things as "respectful" or disrespectful" is almost always useless. I'd suggest you both think in terms of "gets us closer to where we want to go" or "takes us further from where we want to go."

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 6

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 7:32:22 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caraV

well it was only 3 days and I had only smoked a few ciggies and I was not trying to be disobediant... I really didnt think to tell him... But I did infact buy another pack... I guess I was not considering my promise very well...

"Do or do not. There is no try." Yoda

< Message edited by catize -- 8/5/2009 7:33:23 PM >

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to caraV)

Post #: 7

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 7:38:47 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

God Red. That was a GREAT answer.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 8

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 7:39:53 PM

caraV

Posts: 7
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline

my Master made me remove the snotty comment that was previously here...

< Message edited by caraV -- 8/5/2009 7:49:05 PM >

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 9

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 7:42:08 PM

tammystarm

Posts: 3045
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline

that is a hard thing to quit, i know. Master hates it that i do. He does understand how difficult it is to quit, he Himself was a smoker, took Him three times on the patches to quit. If He says do not smoke again, than i would in fact not smoke again. But that is a very unreasonable thing to ask of someone. I was told by a doctor that stopping smoking is like stopping doing heroine. I would suggest a serious talk about a time frame, a reasonable time frame, and then stick with it. A sub who is deliberately disobedient is in fact not a true sub. best wishes stopping, its one of the hardest things ive ever tried and still trying. (as im smoking while typing this).

_____________________________

~~Queen of duct-tape~~
~~Emotionally delusional~~

~~somebody pour me my nebuitol and hand me my drink~~

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 10

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 7:53:57 PM

Joseff

Posts: 505
Joined: 6/2/2007
Status: offline

Whether you can stop smoking or not is not the issue, you made it kind of vague as to whether he told you to quit, or you promised him you would. That however only gets you so far, in the end, he expected you to quit, you knew it, and you did not. At the least, you were disobediant. Now, what do you plan to do about it?

_____________________________

This is gonna hurt...

Joseff

(in reply to tammystarm)

Post #: 11

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 7:55:11 PM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caraV

my Master made me remove the snotty comment that was previously here...

Good decision on your master's part :)

cara,
I think people have given you some good advice as far as both of you having to own some of the responsibility here. It's easy to sit up on one's high horse and tell another what to do. It's hard to break any addictive habit and I commend you for even trying. The key is to be truthful, open and honest with your master about how hard it is and how you need his support. You can do it and it'll be that much easier if you're both on the same page. There IS such a thing as "trying" no matter what Yoda said

Keep it up and good luck..........luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to caraV)

Post #: 12

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 8:09:06 PM

JCVash

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline

Much as I am loathe to, I think there needs to be a little clarification here. Firstly I'll address it in stages and try to clear a few things up. But I have to say Red....your keen psychic skills astound me ..

quote:

As a general principle, though, cutting someone an order without providing that person with the tools needed to accomplish that order, is bad leadership practice. My sense of things right now is that he is a dom with weak leadership skills, and you are a sub with weak communication skills. Both of you own part of this mess.

As you may have guessed, I am caraV's Dom. So to clarify everything lets put it in time frame. For a start, it was Sunday before last cara said she would quit, cold turkey. I had a long conversation with her about just reducing the amount of smokes she had, rather then going cold turkey, for I am keenly aware how hard it can be.

What also isn't known, and I am rather loath to bring up is I thought if she could succeed in giving up cold turkey then I would be astounded, and very proud, though if she didn't then I'd follow through with my word and punish her for backsliding, with the ultimate objective of having her quit, but with the affore mentioned gradual reduction in smokes or patchs. However cara also attended a funeral, had some other tragic circumstances also eventuate which I dislike disclosing and am only doing so, so the afore mentioned pyshic Red, can then have a better reading and situational awareness for just flinging out the casual he or she must be this or that, weak or bad leadership. Given the circumstances of her weak I was inclined to leniency, and yes I found out because she was smoking while on the phone, so I do have valid cause to believe she had, had a bad weak and was smoking without thought out of habit. Finding out of course doesn't excuse her and I am currently punishing her, as well as having spoken with her about a more reasonable way to quit smoking, and have put it into effect. I firmly believe in some situations if my slave wishs to try something, even if I doubt it will work, I will support her 100% till she learns different.

I do believe general discussion is just that, I have no intention of making people I meet on a chat board privy to my private life. Granted you had little information to go on but hey give just a little information in return rather then your considered inept proffessional opinion. As for the nature of her question, it was to do with respect, which came up when she asked how her smoking could have possibly hurt me. And I told her disrespect. Which stems from the fact she told me she would do a thing, that I would support her in her decision, and of course punish her if she backslide to give her both balance of positive and negative reinforcement. So is it disrespect, though while I didn't make it an order for her to follow exaclty (yes I encouraged her to quit for her health and she had a want to anyway) I got behind and supported her as her Master, to do so and then failing, she also neglected to tell me she failed. I would call it disresepect, though others may have differing opinions.

So please comment on that and note I am not releasing her for this transgression, nor do I think I ever shall, I happen to love my slave and believe she's worth my every effort. And to cara's credit and my everlasting pride and joy, she learns incredibly swiftly, and is in my honest opinion one of the finest slaves I have ever encountered (If you have to ask I have encountered hundreds, lived and owned several) not because she is perfect at everything, but because she has heart, and fire, a deep abiding passion to learn and be pleasing. So no while a little disappointed in her, she's definately not one I am giving up for something as hard to do as quitting smoking.

_____________________________

Once my slave said to me "Master, what is my slavery to you?"
I replied "Everything...but mainly the sex...yes definatly the sex"
She answered in a demure voice "Oh.....Then why am I doing the dishs?"

Proud owner of caraV

(in reply to tammystarm)

Post #: 13

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 8:18:57 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JCVash
I thought if she could succeed in giving up cold turkey then I would be astounded, and very proud, though if she didn't then I'd follow through with my word and punish her for backsliding, with the ultimate objective of having her quit, but with the affore mentioned gradual reduction in smokes or patchs.

If you read business management training material, or military officer training manuals, you will learn that this method is considered poor leadership practice, all across the board. The reason is that you condition your subordinates that you don't really mean it when you give an order.

By contrast, the rule of thumb for good leadership is, "Only give orders that will be obeyed." That is what conditions your subordinates to obey you, as a habit. As they obey you more and more, you can ask more and more of them.

I hope you take this seriously. I really do know what I'm talking about. You will do your sub a disservice if you only see my words through the grid of your personal ego-defense.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to JCVash)

Post #: 14

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 8:19:33 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

There IS such a thing as "trying" no matter what Yoda said

I agree, actually. What I was ‘trying’ to point out, in a very vague manner, is that the OP’s phrase “I wasn’t trying to be disobedient” comes across as an attempt to avoid responsibility. We all screw up from time to time.
But the OP’s question was: was she disrespectful or forgetful? I don’t believe for a minute that she ‘forgot’. And I believe it is respectful to admit one’s screw ups rather than make lame excuses.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 15

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 8:34:45 PM

caraV

Posts: 7
Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline

I am sorry what I should have said was that I was not purposly being disobediant. To be honest I had 2 deaths in my family in a week... one being a 19 year old cousin and the other being my grandmother... I truly forgot...
The universe is more then just black and white, there is also the huge area known as gray...thank god I can see blues reds greens and all the myriad of colors outside of the monochromatic. If there was no try, then there would be no do or do not either

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 16

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 8:40:49 PM

Aylee

Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caraV

I am sorry what I should have said was that I was not purposly being disobediant. To be honest I had 2 deaths in my family in a week... one being a 19 year old cousin and the other being my grandmother... I truly forgot...
The universe is more then just black and white, there is also the huge area known as gray...thank god I can see blues reds greens and all the myriad of colors outside of the monochromatic. If there was no try, then there would be no do or do not either

See. . . the thing is. . .

There will ALWAYS be a "reason" that you cannot quit today, this week, month, year. . . whatever, IF you start on the path of using stress as reasons NOT to quit.

Life does not happen in a bubble.

If you really want to quit, you will stay smoke-free through whatever stressful situation that you are in. If you are ambivilant about quiting, you will always find a reason why it cannot be "now."

I think the most respectful thing to do would be to take some thinking time and decide what it is that you truely want to do. Then talk it over with your d-type.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to caraV)

Post #: 17

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 8:51:11 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: caraV

I truly forgot...

Actually, that sounds more like "truly felt I should decide for myself if the emotional trauma of my recent life was a good enough excuse for me to be disobedient and that my Master should follow along because I want him to".

Not an attractive progression of thoughts and decisions.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to caraV)

Post #: 18

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 8:54:40 PM

JCVash

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Joined: 8/5/2009
Status: offline

I will grant you that it sounded ambigious, though when I told her it wasn't such. And yes your right, in both army and management practices it's a good trait to breed into your subordinates that instinctual commands should be obeyed. However, my slave is not just my subordinate, she is also the woman I have a deep and abiding relationship with and will live with. For my mind I wouldn't ask a soldier, or any employee under me to simply give up smoking because I objected to it. Therein lies the difference.

She made a personal choice to give up smoking.. I admit I could quite well have stamped my foot and demanded she gave up smoking, but as I smoke I think it a little hypocritcal and I am certainly not a hypocrit. So no I don't contradict your reference, merely in this instance I didn't apply it. Once she made the choice I enforced it. Much like introduction of law works...you know, they argue about it back and forth then when they hammer out the details it's enacted and put out and enforced to the letter (Or should be). Too as I said, there are other things involved of a private nature.

So no I am not defending my ego, for really I am rather laid back about such things, I was pointing out that I kindly ask you to keep personal references to yourself when you don't really have all the facts to answer them. Especially when the nature of the question (And I admit cara did make it a little ambigious) had nothing really to do with either of our strengths or weakness's rather then pertaining to the nature of respect or lack there of.

Not everyone is priveleged enough to have served in the armed forces or management roles, and yet manage to some how muddle through in terms of mastery and dominance. Each has his own, and I could garuntee that many leaders in all the instances you cite have different management styles from the easy laid back nature of Winston Churchill, to the dynamic take charge with no crap Patton. Or even the flambouant and ultimate prima dona of Douglas Macathur. Which is not to say I am adverse to learning something new, and from unlikely sources. Happen to be I actually agree with you for the most part that it's not the most effective way to do things, but I like to think I am old enough and wise enough these days to have found my own style, my own nature and that reflects on the way I handle my slave. She is content, as am I. We have remarkably good dialogue about everything to do with our relationship. And I have one advantage that those in the armed forces and management do not..I lead just one person, and know her intimately and understand her far better then 99% of those leaders ever will their own employee's or soldiers. In the end I will get what I want without the hassles of people quitting or raising a mutiny.

_____________________________

Once my slave said to me "Master, what is my slavery to you?"
I replied "Everything...but mainly the sex...yes definatly the sex"
She answered in a demure voice "Oh.....Then why am I doing the dishs?"

Proud owner of caraV

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 19

RE: What do you consider Disrespect??? - 8/5/2009 8:55:07 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

You know what does fully qualify as disrespectful, though?

quote:

ORIGINAL: caraV

would you consider that disrepect or just... lets say forgetfulness??? I think forgetfulness...

Taking what your Master has (presumably) told you, having the audacity to choose to disregard it followed by posting a story of the events online for people to judge/critique and then (before even getting a reply) answering your own question in direct contradiction to his assessment.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to caraV)

Post #: 20

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