RE: Young submission and its consequences

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SweetPoosy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 6:18:46 PM)
quote: The thread was about the nature of submission..submission by consent, sunmission to violence, green sunmission, inexperience and so on. OK, fine. You asked about the nature of young submission? This is not young submission, this is a young lady who doesn't understand the nature of abuse, and what constitutes abuse. Sadly, she probably never will, because her own mother doesn't really understand the difference...and probably contributed to her confusion. Any mother who can call her daughter a prick tease should look closely at herself and should understand exactly where her child got her low self esteem from. Just sayin' is all.

LaTigresse -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 6:19:35 PM)
Sixteen is so, not an adult.

MiaowMiaow -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 6:21:40 PM)
Speaking as a young and inexperienced submissive aged 19, that behaviour you describe of that 16-year old is a huge red flag and an indication that something has gone terribly wrong. Unstable childhood, domestic violence..... Do you know this boy's parents? Judging by his immature and foolish actions, it is my belief that he is not ready for the responsibilities that the Army would require of him and the experience will most likely backfire and mess him up even more. It seems to me he is using your daughter because he knows he can since she is blinded hopelessly by her love for him.... Has he always treated her this way? You have to help her wake up and move on! She needs you more than anything now. The fact that she did call you is a small shout for help in the dark. Please use it and talk thoroughly with your daughter. Get her to reconsider this relationship, she needs to know there are others out there. The actions you make and what you say, being her mother in this situation is bound to hit you when you bring it up on a board such as this since we are all people with different experiences that we have learned from. If you want to keep justifying your own actions and keep pushing everyone away when we are just trying to help saying "You don't know me, my daughter or their relationship", why even bring up such a personal issue if you were just looking for a discussion about young submission? It does however trouble me when you say you know everything about him and your daughter's relationship and yet you said in the first post how your daughter was lying.... How can you so clearly state that you know the exact situation and have already concluded the outcome.... It seems rather selfish to me that you have chosen not to act because you are afraid of losing what you have with your daughter.... but think about it... You may lose her the one way or the other, besides, having been the sleeping fool myself, I know the path she is walking now will destroy her slowly... Yes, she will wake up eventually, but when she does it could be too late for her to deal with the consequences and emotions.. Please help her... Nothing is wrong with young submission but in this case it is crossing the edge to abuse she did not consent in being treated in such a way, teasing him or not, it does not justify the physical abuse and harm he has inflicted upon her... I could go on, but it would be pointless, just like this thread which only makes me feel sad inside because there is nothing I can do to differ the outcome. I hope for the best too -kitten Must apologize because I replied to NorthernGent when this was directed to Prinsexx. Pardon me for being new to the boards. :)

barelynangel -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 6:22:06 PM)
Full Circle -- Here its becoming more and more law in the US police are required to arrest someone at every DV call, if the victim refuses to sign the report or states she doesn't want him arrested the police are allowed to sign on her or the victims behalf. I am not sure if every State has it yet but a vast majority of them do now because of the very thing spoken of here -- too many people were calling the police -- guys would get arrested then bailed and get to the victim and they would refuse to go through. This way the victim can be subpoenaed into court and used as a hostile witness but she still has to tell the truth on the stand. They don't LIKE doing this but its utterly amazing the circle this use to create. I am still hmmming over whether this was a good move or not. Prinnsex -- i don't know UK law but before the above was implicated -- victims who didn't want the perp arrested could make REPORTS of the incident instead of a complaint and they were able to use these in case the violence esculated or continued or to get a civil versus a criminal order of protection. Can you at least make a report and document her injuries so if it continues to happen people will have previous reports to see a pattern? Perhaps someone else can call the police for you -- someone who isn't so close to her or the situation. But somehow i think its very important someone impresses upon him at his young age that THIS is NOT acceptable behavior. You may save him jail time in the future as well as your daughter or some other girls fear, harm and pain. Can you call a domestic violence center and get some literature at least so she can read over it and maybe anonymously without you even knowing go talk to people IF SHE WANTS? I am sure the DV centers will know other teens in her situation as its becoming more and more cases of same. Maybe talking to girls her own age will help even if its not counseling. You said she was smart -- give her the tools she needs to help herself if she decides too which even means talking to someone other than you if she wants and you give her the information so she knows its okay to do it without your knowing and you won't think anything of it. You may also consider having someone else who is not you that she can go to -- someone who is not as close to her as you are. The reason i say this is because when someone is in such a situation sometimes the person closest to them is NOT the person who can help them the most. angel

Starbuck09 -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 6:22:50 PM)
Well if this thread is simply an intellectual exercise in determining the parameters of submissive behaviour in young adults I believe I have said all that is necessary from my viewpoint. This is not submission this is abuse and your daughters behaviour is not submissive is that of a young girl who loves her partner despite his abysmal treatment of her. That is not submission that is love, love that is not being rewarded as it should be. As for informing his parents my own family are protective of me. If a mother of one of my girlfriends told my parents I was beating her daughter to a paste on a regular basis they would not close ranks around me they would speak to me to ask what was going on. This boy is not an adult he is a young adult there is a difference. Personally this looks like thread looks like guilt to me prinsexx and you are looking to rationalise your own inertia towards this situation. Perhaps i'm wrong but if your intention was to simply provoke debate about the nature of submission in youth surely you cold have done so without using your own daughter's abusive relationship as a focal point? I have a lot of sympathy forou this is a difult situation but that means the choices you have to make are in turn going to be difficult, and that is not a reason to not take those decisions prinsexx

SweetPoosy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 6:33:58 PM)
One other thing that has not been addressed is that the young man's home life is very likely abusive, if he is demonstrating abusive behaviour at the age of 16. So going to his parents would likely result in HIS getting an asswhupping, which would NOT be conducive to his re-education, it would only reinforce his bad behaviour. Another thing that hasn't been definitively answered is how old IS your daughter Prinsexx? Advice that is appropriate for a 16 year old is not necessarily correct for a 19 year old.

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 7:07:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Prinnsex -- i don't know UK law but before the above was implicated -- victims who didn't want the perp arrested could make REPORTS of the incident instead of a complaint and they were able to use these in case the violence esculated or continued or to get a civil versus a criminal order of protection. Can you at least make a report and document her injuries so if it continues to happen people will have previous reports to see a pattern? Perhaps someone else can call the police for you -- someone who isn't so close to her or the situation. But somehow i think its very important someone impresses upon him at his young age that THIS is NOT acceptable behavior. You may save him jail time in the future as well as your daughter or some other girls fear, harm and pain. Can you call a domestic violence center and get some literature at least so she can read over it and maybe anonymously without you even knowing go talk to people IF SHE WANTS? I am sure the DV centers will know other teens in her situation as its becoming more and more cases of same. Maybe talking to girls her own age will help even if its not counseling. You said she was smart -- give her the tools she needs to help herself if she decides too which even means talking to someone other than you if she wants and you give her the information so she knows its okay to do it without your knowing and you won't think anything of it. You may also consider having someone else who is not you that she can go to -- someone who is not as close to her as you are. The reason i say this is because when someone is in such a situation sometimes the person closest to them is NOT the person who can help them the most. angel I thank you for your xonxern Just cooking for her. WE have the literature. She has been offered the support and counselling for the death of her birth father recently. He was the perpetrator of the domestic abuse this familu suffered for years. She was her father's main alliby...there is always one child in a familu that has this role. She attacjes emotionally to him, or at least did so when he was alive, than she did to me. This is why she courts abuse. All of the support lines are in place and I reallly thank you for your concern. However one cannot drag a person into therapeutic help.

stella41b -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 7:21:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetPoosy quote: The thread was about the nature of submission..submission by consent, sunmission to violence, green sunmission, inexperience and so on. OK, fine. You asked about the nature of young submission? This is not young submission, this is a young lady who doesn't understand the nature of abuse, and what constitutes abuse. Sadly, she probably never will, because her own mother doesn't really understand the difference...and probably contributed to her confusion. Any mother who can call her daughter a prick tease should look closely at herself and should understand exactly where her child got her low self esteem from. Just sayin' is all. Then why go on about poor parenting? So glad to see you've managed to write off a teenage girl so quickly based on what you assume her mother is like. This has got nothing to do with poor parenting and also despite what you post above there are a lot of people out there who despite dysfunctional, inept, incompetent and abusive parents actually go on to lead successful lives and eventually form healthy relationships. Oh and people do make mistakes in life. Edited to add: The difference between submission and abuse is largely down to intention, reason, motivation and consent. I'm dumbfouded here as to how many people expect a teenage girl to be able to work that out for herself without any real relationship experience. Furthermore teenagers make bad choices, they fuck up, they make mistakes and it's learning how to deal with the consequences of not just good, but also bad decisions, mistakes and fuck ups is where they learn the most about living. And that is something that no parent is really in a position to prevent.

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 7:48:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: stella41b Yes I do see people getting pissy and snarky, but I for one differentiate between the snark and pissiness coming out of good intentions and that which isn't. Maybe it isn't however pure malice or vindictiveness, maybe it's just that we're discussing an issue that is perhaps a little too close to home for comfort for some people out there and emotion and memories are clouding objective judgment. I so think we are discussig an issue that is too close to home...no not just for me. The thread has not uet even been on topic as fat as I am concerned. It's been a great sorce of familial advie but fairly off topic and terribly recursive. There are issues which my so-called lifestyle highlights. My life is not mundane. Whereas I might score points and win freinds and influence people here exposing how many canings I can take, how much pain I can bear or that I like elctro tortire I don't seem to be scoring points as a parent. The issue which is too close to home is THE CONSEQIENCES of submission. If the topic had been the consequences of being young and gay I don't think it would have raised so much attack. Simply because i think my stance would have been more understtod. Something along the lines of my son/daughter is having issues with coming out as gay. whilst we accept that totally on the family she my daughter is being bullied about this at school...etc. If you see my point. The gay culture and indeed the transgendering culture is more co-opted and socially understood , far more so than bdsm. (Although asking if a son could wear a dress for school uniform might raise an eyebrow on any Board of Governors.) Ok let me expose an issue which I know i have not completely resolved in my life. The issue is, whereas my 'career' if you would like to call it that, as a submisssive, has evolved, I have not yet beeen able to find the right Master who is willing to integrate into my family or indeed I have not found the right Master whom I coonsider I would be able to integrate into my family and so have released myself at the point of attempting integration. For some obvious reasons and for some deep seated reasons. Simply how do you explain and expose youngsters to your predilections? espexially as a consensual masochist? The answer is: you don't with ease. For anyone who is familiar with the work of Pat Callifa...hir position changed radically on this whe she beacme a parent. Now here is a basic hypocysy. How do you say to a young adult oh by the way what you did in getting beaten there by your boyfriend? It's wrong and he should be locked up for it. But by the way mom loves to be beaten..see the marks mom's boyfriend left here on my arse? There's a basic double standard. Am I right or am I worng for having a double standard? One standard for me and one for my emergent adults? What would I be protecting them from? basically I would be protecting them from me. The question is also: my submission and it's consequences not just her submission and its consequences. If we can stop doing the reciursion and look at the consequences of coming out as sado-masochists and parents.

beargonewild -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 8:10:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx Now here is a basic hypocrisy. How do you say to a young adult oh by the way what you did in getting beaten there by your boyfriend? It's wrong and he should be locked up for it. But by the way mom loves to be beaten..see the marks mom's boyfriend left here on my arse? There's a basic double standard. Am I right or am I wrong for having a double standard? One standard for me and one for my emergent adults? What would I be protecting them from? basically I would be protecting them from me. The question is also: my submission and it's consequences not just her submission and its consequences. If we can stop doing the recursion and look at the consequences of coming out as sado-masochists and parents. That hypocrisy is inherent in every parent/offspring relationship from birth until adulthood of the offspring. As a soon to be adult, we (figuratively) we see that hypocrisy and we fight against this inequality/injustice that we feel is completely wrong. When the offspring is an adult, that hypocrisy should not be a concern nor should it be acknowledged any further. Many will say a parent will always a parent yet once a a parent has raised their offspring to adulthood, the majority of the parent's responsibility is over and done. The bonds will always be there though it must be understood that once the offspring is an adult, they are now solely responsible for their actions and choices in life: not the parents - their duty/job is now done.

BitaTruble -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 8:29:15 PM)
quote: But although I can bathe her cuts, hug her and calm her down I can't change her submissive nature. I see myself when I was young and knew no different. My daughter has a very submissive nature and, nope, I don't think you can change it. It is what it is. She's 30 and trust me when I say, when she acts like she's 3 instead of 30 I absolutely bitch slap her (verbally telling her what is rather than what she wants it to be) and her husband too, when he acts like a 3 year old. She needs it and I love her to pieces, so I do that service for her and she always appreciates it.. eventually. If you're not willing or able to bitch slap these two, who so clearly need it, then hold your breath for 9 days because he'll be in the army where he will be required to put on his big boy panties and maybe your daughter will get the time necessary to pull her own big girl panties on, too. Your hands are tied, Mom and your options are limited. Loving our sons and daughters and being an advocate is about the best we can do as parents and letting them make their own mistakes and forcing them to acknowledge their personal responsibility for them is part of the job description so they grow up 'better' then we did. I want my children to be better than me. Grow past me, exceed me and if they end up hating me in the process, so be it. That's a price I'm willing to pay to raise outstanding humans. So far, they don't hate me.. in fact, they love me a lot and show it, but life ain't over yet and there are all kinds of mistakes I can still make as a parent that might be just around the corner. Who knows? Young submission .. you gotta pay your dues, yanno, and one of those dues to play in this field is to behave like a grown up. You said that you knew no different when you were young. Yeah, I relate. I didn't either. But I do now and my daughter has me now, with all the shit behind me, all the lessons learned to, perhaps, avoid a few of the mistakes that I've made along the way .. if she'll listen. There's the rub. Good luck with this situation, Prin.

LilMichele -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 8:45:41 PM)
deleted because my temper got the best of me

winterlight -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 10:37:23 PM)
Wholeheartedly agrees with Steel... She is a doormat only wanting somebody to want her. She needs to learn how to be stronger and stand alone before she can be with another.

Wyzardsgirl -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 11:55:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetPoosy OK, fine. You asked about the nature of young submission? This is not young submission, this is a young lady who doesn't understand the nature of abuse, and what constitutes abuse. Sadly, she probably never will, because her own mother doesn't really understand the difference...and probably contributed to her confusion. Any mother who can call her daughter a prick tease should look closely at herself and should understand exactly where her child got her low self esteem from. Just sayin' is all. Thank you for reinforcing what I said in an earlier post hours ago, SweetPoosy! The OP has no clear idea herself of what submission versus abuse is. I objected strongly earlier when the OP called her daughter a prick teasing slut. She even insinuated that her daughter deserved being beat bloody and dragged around the pavement until her arms and elbows were bloody. Then she posted that only one person was willing to help her with her (cough) dilemma. Seems that person was JonnieBoy who called her on the phone and reinforced the OP's delusions that her daughter was 'transitioning' into submission and it was just her bad luck to have a 16 year old boy beat the crap out of her. I'm doubting at this point the OP's claims to have any kind of legitimate license as a therapist. She clearly has no idea of what abuse is versus submission. I hesitated to return to this thread until I wound up with insomnia. This whole thread made my skin crawl and dammit, when I tried to sleep I kept rewinding this crap in my head. JMO, but any mother who would stand by while some 16 year old psycho would beat her own daughter to a bloody pulp and then drag her around the pavement until her skin was ripped and bleeding, is just one scary woman.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/10/2009 2:52:23 AM)
There is no hypocrisy here prinsexx you are only pereiving it. You have conflated abuse with submission in this case child abuse with ''coming out'' as a submissive. When someone returns to an abusive lover they do so out of love despite the faults of their lover, not because they desire to be abused. Surely you can differentiate between the two having experienced this? Why do you refer to your marriage as an abusive one? Why not simply say it was an S&M relationship? If I had a son who rang me up to say he had been raped by a friend I would not put this down to him coming out as a homosexual I would call it what it was rape. Likewise this is nothing to do with S&M. There might be those who have been abused and liked the feeling and so some to S&M as a form of release but even that is far removed from your daughter's predicament prinsexx. You say you have a double standard, how so? Presumably at some point you came to the conclusion that your husband's treatment of you was not a submissive being dommed but a wife being abused? Here even more critically it is your child who DOES NOT KNOW BETTER AND MAY EVEN HAVE PICKED UP BEHAVIORAL HABITS FROM YOURSELF. If this was S&M you would have no fear as when I was 16 and my girlfreind spanked me or vice versa there was no fear I was going to slit her throat as I did it. Clearly prinsexx I believe you know the truth of the matter or you would not be frightened of your daughter, if emergent submissive nature was all this was then a chat with her like a safe sex chat advising about condoms would be all that was needed.

Wyzardsgirl -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/10/2009 3:52:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 There is no hypocrisy here prinsexx you are only pereiving it. You have conflated abuse with submission in this case child abuse with ''coming out'' as a submissive. Why do you refer to your marriage as an abusive one? Why not simply say it was an S&M relationship? If I had a son who rang me up to say he had been raped by a friend I would not put this down to him coming out as a homosexual I would call it what it was rape. Likewise this is nothing to do with S&M. There might be those who have been abused and liked the feeling and so some to S&M as a form of release but even that is far removed from your daughter's predicament prinsexx. You say you have a double standard, how so? Presumably at some point you came to the conclusion that your husband's treatment of you was not a submissive being dommed but a wife being abused? Here even more critically it is your child who DOES NOT KNOW BETTER AND MAY EVEN HAVE PICKED UP BEHAVIORAL HABITS FROM YOURSELF. If this was S&M you would have no fear as when I was 16 and my girlfreind spanked me or vice versa there was no fear I was going to slit her throat as I did it. Clearly prinsexx I believe you know the truth of the matter or you would not be frightened of your daughter, if emergent submissive nature was all this was then a chat with her like a safe sex chat advising about condoms would be all that was needed. Again, thank you Starbuck! You seemed to have picked up on the very things I picked up on. Damn! I hate the fact that tossing and turning and trying to sleep, that I allowed some twit without an ounce of brains or compassion for her own daughter to keep me awake all damned night. I first started reading this thread early afternoon yesterday. I went out with friends and had a great time. But, while I was with them, I brought this subject up (yes, they were 'lifestyle' friends) and they were all as horrified as I was. I don't generally let strangers problems bother me, but this is the sickest thing I've ever seen posted in all my years on many 'lifestyle' forums. I'm trying to hold on to some remnant of being civil toward the OP, but the more I think about it, the more I think mommy should trade places with her daughter and let the 16 year old psycho drag her across the pavement a few times. Bet we'd hear a totally different story coming out of her mouth if and when that happened.

RCdc -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/10/2009 4:09:43 AM)
quote: I absolutely agree. But D it has absolutely nothing to do with the way you define submission. I wish what had happened had nothing to do with submission. But are you absolutely certian and sure that this is so? Yes. Absolutely. quote: Is there no submissive by name or nature who has never longed to be owned, longed to serve, long to be loved and appreciated that s/he would not, has not and would never pit temself at risk in order to get that? Yes. But it is not called submission. quote: Would bever beg for attention. Would never follow the object of their need? would bever spend hours dressing for them? Would never think about them as a near obsession? tolerate bad and good behaviours from them without distinction and without limit? Are you sure? Absolutely. quote: Or is this just about hoping that your type of submission, which you have worked out and which is catered for in a perfcetly loving and enduring abuse free relationship, isn't the type of submission you hope and pray is the only type of submission out there that there is? No hope at all. I do not deal in 'hope'. Wishes and fishes et all that. I don't deny there are different types of submission. Using IrishMist as an example (with the utmost respect) she has a totally different type of submission to the one I practise, but is no less a type. But what you are describing is NOT submission. Shes a cock tease you say - that isn't submission, thats making a decision to be what she thinks he wants, not submission. Being dragged down the road then crying to you? That's not submission. It's called coming of age Prin. Teens go through it all the time - people in their early twenties go through it all the time. EVERYONE goes through it all the time. You are trying to dress it up in submission when it's nothing more glamerous than coming of age. It gives a dis-service to submission to do so. It gives coming of age a dis-service and it gives your daughter complete dis - service for being a human being. Confusing growing up with submission is like trying to treat meningitus like the flu. the.dark. quote: My daughter does not know the difference between the two and I cannot do it for her. Apart from be there later. Look Prin. I don't get this whole thread as submission - even though you are insisting. I'll tell you a story. Once upon a time there was a little girl of 16 who ran off to Devon with the man she thought she loved. There was submission as far as the relationship went, but there was not submission in going off with him - that was just what teenagers do. Finding their feet. Looking for their own decision making - making it - fucking it up sometimes - sometimes making a great decision and learning from it. Then one day he hit her and other shit - because he thought he could. And she saw the light (quite fittingly) and packed her bag and came on the first train home to her mother. Because she could. She wasn't hit out of dominance - because it was unacceptable. She didn't go out of submission. She went to live life. She did it - failed for a bit and then came home. Her mother didn't go on about her being an idiot. Or a cock tease. Or a fool. She didn't care about the boy or what would happen with his work. Or his parents. In fact she just opened the door, put the washing in the machine and made her and her daughter a cup of tea. And then they watched eastenders. I love my mum. the.dark.

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/10/2009 4:26:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble quote: But although I can bathe her cuts, hug her and calm her down I can't change her submissive nature. I see myself when I was young and knew no different. My daughter has a very submissive nature and, nope, I don't think you can change it. It is what it is. She's 30 and trust me when I say, when she acts like she's 3 instead of 30 I absolutely bitch slap her (verbally telling her what is rather than what she wants it to be) and her husband too, when he acts like a 3 year old. She needs it and I love her to pieces, so I do that service for her and she always appreciates it.. eventually. If you're not willing or able to bitch slap these two, who so clearly need it, then hold your breath for 9 days because he'll be in the army where he will be required to put on his big boy panties and maybe your daughter will get the time necessary to pull her own big girl panties on, too. Your hands are tied, Mom and your options are limited. Loving our sons and daughters and being an advocate is about the best we can do as parents and letting them make their own mistakes and forcing them to acknowledge their personal responsibility for them is part of the job description so they grow up 'better' then we did. I want my children to be better than me. Grow past me, exceed me and if they end up hating me in the process, so be it. That's a price I'm willing to pay to raise outstanding humans. So far, they don't hate me.. in fact, they love me a lot and show it, but life ain't over yet and there are all kinds of mistakes I can still make as a parent that might be just around the corner. Who knows? Young submission .. you gotta pay your dues, yanno, and one of those dues to play in this field is to behave like a grown up. You said that you knew no different when you were young. Yeah, I relate. I didn't either. But I do now and my daughter has me now, with all the shit behind me, all the lessons learned to, perhaps, avoid a few of the mistakes that I've made along the way .. if she'll listen. There's the rub. Good luck with this situation, Prin. Bita: Every single word of what you have said i thank you for and I absolutely agree with your take on it and your stance. Thank you so mush for bringing some middle ground, some sanity and the concept of parenting as advocacy to this thread. Two of the reasons (major reasons) why I have taken the stance I have are: 1. That this boy has developed a trust in me which reaches beyond the trust he has ever developed in another adult, even his own parents and within his own family. The transformation he has made in his life in order to go and fight for his country (eventually) is enormous. He still has a long way to go. But that unbridled agression which he has used to lash out with is the very same agression which in battle we would be applauding. The British Army take young thugs off the streets and transform them in something professional. And despite anyone else's political take on this I personally am grateful for those who are at the battle front fighting for me to have these very freedoms to sit here and say what I say. 2. I cannot be an advocate if I betray EITHER one of them. I am house mother to ALL the young people who pass through my house and there are many and my house is a focal point of safety and tolerance. It will always remain so for as long as Ihave breath in my nody. I am not 'one' of them They would indeed all feel unsafe if that were the case. But I marvel at their creativity, their music, their loyalties. 3. If my daughter and this young man are to stand any chance of making it into this so-called adult world, my daughter in particular will be the one eho, as a girl friend of an Army boy, will have to learn loyalty. She will have to learn to understand anxiety and for long periods take second place to his life in uniform. Army life is not new to me. My grandfather served in days when there was malaria and no such thing as post traumatic stess disorder. They were no doubt both dead drunk. There have been quite a few young men coming home in body bags recently. The stress they are both under must be enormous. So yes it takes skill to guide them. My daughter is a complex blend of extravertism, beauty and is deeply submissive. Dealing with what went on yesterday can't all be done by knee jerk reactions. But I have had calls and mail from dear friends who understand not only domestic violence but they understand me, the stance I take and the nature of submission. And I am thankful for that. So thank you too. I know you understand.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/10/2009 4:34:30 AM)
Prinsexx I have taken umbrage with much of what you have said but I have been nothing but civil to you. However your views of army life are nothing short of complete ignorance. What on earth do you think a battlefield is like? It is a place where the very strictest of discipline and courage is needed and a completely level head. Lashing out violence of the sort that causes him to beat up his girlfriend when she won't play on a games console with him is not what is needed. Those in the frontline are not people like this. What part of the army is he going into? If you are close to him you must know what score he received on his B.A.R.B. test and therefore which jobs he is eligible for. The stress that thy are under is no more or less than thousands of other couples all of whom manage to cope without resorting to one partner beating the other. Using tghe memory of those killed in action to justify this man's behaviour is truly revolting. For the line of work I am entering in the army one is psychologically tested constantly to ensure you are suibtable. Clearly this boy is not ready or he would handle his emotions with greater maturity.

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/10/2009 4:44:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 Prinsexx I have taken umbrage with much of what you have said but I have been nothing but civil to you. However your views of army life are nothing short of complete ignorance. What on earth do you think a battlefield is like? It is a place where the very strictest of discipline and courage is needed and a completely level head. Lashing out violence of the sort that causes him to beat up his girlfriend when she won't play on a games console with him is not what is needed. Those in the frontline are not people like this. What part of the army is he going into? If you are close to him you must know what score he received on his B.A.R.B. test and therefore which jobs he is eligible for. The stress that thy are under is no more or less than thousands of other couples all of whom manage to cope without resorting to one partner beating the other. Using tghe memory of those killed in action to justify this man's behaviour is truly revolting. For the line of work I am entering in the army one is psychologically tested constantly to ensure you are suibtable. Clearly this boy is not ready or he would handle his emotions with greater maturity. I do know what the Armed Forces are like. I was actually allowed a special tour of an RAF training ground not far from here. I know the rigours of behaviour. I know the rigours of inspection. And I know the absolute prefssionalism, codes of conduct and the training that is involved. Really. I do understand where this boy has come from and the processes he has been going through. The thread is really becoming about failure of communication and nothing else.

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