RE: Young submission and its consequences

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JonnieBoy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:37:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx Yes of course. You are right. So: there might come a time when she comes home with cuts and bruises and then turns to me and says oh but by the way mom it's ok I consented. Then I have a situation. Then I really do have a situation. Which I touched on earlier, if that happens, it could be true, but then again, she could be protecting someone (she could easily lie too that it was someone else). Thames Valley would run a mile from that, far too many folks without seatbelts to lift. Pirate

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:38:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild Even us who are into S&M, we agree to a form of physical abuse when we allow another to beat our body black and blue. Yes, and there are plenty who think you ought to be strung up for that, but don't tell too many kinksters ... you'd have one hell of a queue ! If there is a set of BDSM commandments ... let they who are without "sin" cast the first stone. Back to topic. I used to flat share with a Queer (his request that I use that term) and whilst I don't think that was the case in the OP , he LOVED being beaten up, positively invited it on himself (but only by really sexy boyfriends [;)]) occasionally it would go too far for him, but he, to my knowledge, always forgave. I never got a grip on it but it never happened when I was at home. Welcome to the UK, because when his pal's reported a guy (as witnesses), he told the Police it was true but refused to make a formal statement. Guess the outcome? Pirate Welcome to the UK ineed. (land of Trainspotting, dogging amd Skins). My daughter has said quite categorically that if I go to the Police she will not testify.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:43:23 PM)
Have you spoken to the boy's parents?

LaTigresse -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:45:39 PM)
The crux of the issue is that it all comes down to a parenting decision. And regardless of what anyone here thinks, that decision is ultimately up to Prin. Prin, and her children, have to live with the repercussions of her decision. I seriously doubt there is anything anyone here can say that will affect those decisions and ultimately, the outcome of them. To imagine otherwise is probably foolishness. Not sure about the UK but here, a minor does not need to testify. Often times they don't. The state does not require it.

JonnieBoy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:47:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 But then again perhaps i'm just invisible here Not at all, I could be tempted to pinch your ass to prove that? but we'd have to establish consent [;)] .... you don't have permission to spit in my face because that would be VERY un-domly of me to allow. I'm going to have to rest my typing finger before doing the pinching though, I like to give good "grip" [sm=evil.gif] Pirate

amaidiamond -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:50:27 PM)
For gods sake woman.. How on earth can you call your own child a "Prick teasing slut" on a public internet forum. How would you feel if your daughter read that? You speak of her like that - no wonder the girl is so desperate for this mans affections and shows such victim mentality. I'm surprised your daughter has ANY self esteem if her own MOTHER speaks of her that way. Have some shame, have some sense of what is right. THis boy/man is abusing your daughter - but so are you. If I walked up to someone here (uk) in the street and said "You are a prick teasing slut" I could be arrested for verbal assalt if witnessed by the police. And you do it to your own child - I am beyond disgusted. I really am.

JonnieBoy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:50:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild Even us who are into S&M, we agree to a form of physical abuse when we allow another to beat our body black and blue. Yes, and there are plenty who think you ought to be strung up for that, but don't tell too many kinksters ... you'd have one hell of a queue ! If there is a set of BDSM commandments ... let they who are without "sin" cast the first stone. Back to topic. I used to flat share with a Queer (his request that I use that term) and whilst I don't think that was the case in the OP , he LOVED being beaten up, positively invited it on himself (but only by really sexy boyfriends [;)]) occasionally it would go too far for him, but he, to my knowledge, always forgave. I never got a grip on it but it never happened when I was at home. Welcome to the UK, because when his pal's reported a guy (as witnesses), he told the Police it was true but refused to make a formal statement. Guess the outcome? Pirate Welcome to the UK ineed. (land of Trainspotting, dogging amd Skins). My daughter has said quite categorically that if I go to the Police she will not testify. Ooop's, this reminds me of the "Life Of Brian" sketch ... I was down for crucifiction before you said that ! .... it's not fair ! Pirate

JonnieBoy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:56:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amaidiamond. If I walked up to someone here (uk) in the street and said "You are a prick teasing slut" I could be arrested for verbal assalt if witnessed by the police.. Only in London (and only elsewhere when they're showing off to camera's) Pirate

FullCircle -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:57:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx My daughter has said quite categorically that if I go to the Police she will not testify. Two sources of evidence are required to prosecute a domestic abuse case and one of them doesn't have to be a statement from the alleged victim.

stella41b -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 5:03:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark the.dark. Understood. You know I'm not a parent but I still hold the view that at least socially it's one of the most important and challenging roles anybody can take on. As for that line between submission and abuse all I can say is that in my own experience I had great difficulty for a number of years, not just as a teenager, working out the difference between submission and abuse. There were also times when I thought I was being vigilant for signs of abuse, and yet the abuse still happened. Other people saw what they saw, and what I was prepared to relate to them. It wasn't always the complete picture. And when it was pointed out to me I refused to accept it and made excuses as to why the viewpoint I was being presented with wasn't valid. You see this is the thing with therapy.. You can have the best therapist in the world, but until you the person start seeing the issues for what they really are and start making positive steps to either apply the advice or help and end the cycle, then no therapy is ever going to be of any use. I know. I have exasperated quite a few doctors, psychologists, and no doubt I'm exasperating my gender specialist at Charing Cross. In my case therapy didn't help, nor did BDSM (even though for some time I believed that it would) but what helped the most besides my learning was the support I received and am still receiving. But support takes time, it doesn't happen overnight, and you are left with what to do in the interim period. But central to all that support is my own efforts and applying my own knowledge and wisdom and putting it into action. Yes I do see people getting pissy and snarky, but I for one differentiate between the snark and pissiness coming out of good intentions and that which isn't. Maybe it isn't however pure malice or vindictiveness, maybe it's just that we're discussing an issue that is perhaps a little too close to home for comfort for some people out there and emotion and memories are clouding objective judgment. Coming back to parenting, arguably the most important role anyone can take on in society, but also one which, especially when dealing with teenagers, isn't the easiest and which leaves plenty of room for mistakes and errors, but suffice to say even though it's her daughter and she has feelings and emotions invested, she is still very much on the outside as the rest of us. But the thing is parenting does not come with a guarantee of success and while many succeed, in varying degrees some fail, just as some who are seen as failing maybe aren't failing but being true to their human nature are simply making mistakes. And the way I see it is that yes, we can see it, Prin can perhaps see it, but her daughter cannot. And until that time when she does see it and seek to make the changes for herself not much is going to change. As a parent all you can do is to prepare your kids for life, but their life will always be influenced by the choices and decisions they make and the consequences as a result.

JonnieBoy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 5:05:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx My daughter has said quite categorically that if I go to the Police she will not testify. Two sources of evidence are required to prosecute a domestic abuse case and one of them doesn't have to be a statement from the alleged victim. Not truly representative of the fact. Two sources maybe required, but something else has to happen before it gets into a court .... Tonights quiz ... Pirate

FullCircle -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 5:17:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy Not truly representative of the fact. Two sources maybe required, but something else has to happen before it gets into a court .... Tonights quiz ... Pirate It used to be the case that the victim would retract a statement or not even report the incident in the first place. I think the law was changed a couple of years back that the case can be prosecuted without even the victim making a complaint. Just like if someone assaults you randomly in the street it is a criminal act and you as the victim don't get to decide if it is prosecuted or not. There are also other considerations beyond that of the victim such as the safety of other women he may be involved with or if there are children on the scene. So I don't think it is so clear cut that the victim gets to decide by virtue of the fact they refuse to make a statement. I’m sure the truth that will help the op will be found in better (more relevant and specialised) places than here though.

JonnieBoy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 5:27:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FullCircle quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy Not truly representative of the fact. Two sources maybe required, but something else has to happen before it gets into a court .... Tonights quiz ... Pirate It used to be the case that the victim would retract a statement or not even report the incident in the first place. I think the law was changed a couple of years back that the case can be prosecuted without even the victim making a complaint. Just like if someone assaults you randomly in the street it is a criminal act and you as the victim don't get to decide if it is prosecuted or not. There are also other considerations beyond that of the victim such as the safety of other women he may be involved with or if there are children on the scene. So I don't think it is so clear cut that the victim gets to decide by virtue of the fact they refuse to make a statement. I’m sure the truth that will help the op will be found in better places than here though. Yes, better places by far [;)] (I take it that "women he may" is topic specific and not a re-enforcement of the misconception that only women can be victims and that all perpetrators are men?) You're damned near right about the judicial side of it ... add on the bit where the CPS have to be "satisfied" with the evidence and subtract the cost of not securing a successful prosecution and ... hey presto ! a fucked up system that still (even though the standard has, as you rightly point out, allegedly been changed). Pirate

FullCircle -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 5:46:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy (I take it that "women he may" is topic specific and not a re-enforcement of the misconception that only women can be victims and that all perpetrators are men?) I think the vast majority of reported cases show women as the victims but this fact obviously has to be tempered with the fact most men probably wouldn't even consider coming forward due to finding it so hard to admit they are the victims of it. quote: You're damned near right about the judicial side of it ... add on the bit where the CPS have to be "satisfied" with the evidence and subtract the cost of not securing a successful prosecution and ... hey presto ! a fucked up system that still (even though the standard has, as you rightly point out, allegedly been changed). Yes but on the flip side they have their prosecution targets to meet. It always amazes me they know exactly how many people are guilty of a crime but are getting away with it regardless of what the jury decides. I can understand to a certain extent with rape cases because there are so many such cases being brought each year but so few people being prosecuted. Some argue that that is justice being done and some that statistically you'd expect more people being prosecuted than there actually are. So the focus shifts to the evidence and how it was collected by the police i.e. what the procedures were. I think such sensitive issues realistically put the emphasis on proving innocence rather than proving guilt so prosecuting should be easier in theory. This is what I hear of anyway and I don’t know to what extent it has been implemented.

GreedyTop -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 5:47:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent The idiot wants locking up. 1) Ring the police and have him locked up. 2) Do not see this as the inevitable conclusion from an innate character. 3) Cruel to be kind. You need to find a way to have her take a look at herself in the mirror and develop a bit of steel - by whatever means necessary. Every problem has a solution. He's away in the Army in a few days time. I hope they knock holy crap out of him. If I go to the police his Army career will be over before it's begun. He will get a caution and naught else. And the entire cycle will start again. And she will feel betrayed. It will set a rift between us forever. I see myself in her when I was so young. I havent read the whole thread.. but if it hasnt already been said (and I'm sure it has).. Is HIS ARMY CAREER more important than your daughters well-being? The fucker is an abuser. Do what you can to get him out of HER life.

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 5:52:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: amaidiamond THis boy/man is abusing your daughter - but so are you. If I walked up to someone here (uk) in the street and said "You are a prick teasing slut" I could be arrested for verbal assalt if witnessed by the police. And you do it to your own child - I am beyond disgusted. I really am. If I walked up to someone here (uk) in the street and said "You are a prick teasing slut" I could be arrested for verbal assalt if witnessed by the police..... Are you certain? Even if they did not witness the 'skuts; consent? Under any and all curcumstances? How many arrests do you think the Police would have to make to stop people talking like that to each other? And also helpful to suggest I abuse my daughter. Enjoy your disgust.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 5:56:19 PM)
Prinsexx I do not understand you have said a number of times that you wnated an intelligent debate on this subject but you have not even attempted to do that. You are responding for the most part to posts that allow you to feel like a victim castigated by an ''ignorant'' public. for example I have asked you nearly ten times now if you have spoken to this young man's parantys and you have yet to deign a reply. A debate takes two to tango prinsexx I am doing my level best to help you but you are making it hard to believe that you actually want advice.

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 6:03:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GreedyTop quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent The idiot wants locking up. 1) Ring the police and have him locked up. 2) Do not see this as the inevitable conclusion from an innate character. 3) Cruel to be kind. You need to find a way to have her take a look at herself in the mirror and develop a bit of steel - by whatever means necessary. Every problem has a solution. He's away in the Army in a few days time. I hope they knock holy crap out of him. If I go to the police his Army career will be over before it's begun. He will get a caution and naught else. And the entire cycle will start again. And she will feel betrayed. It will set a rift between us forever. I see myself in her when I was so young. I havent read the whole thread.. but if it hasnt already been said (and I'm sure it has).. Is HIS ARMY CAREER more important than your daughters well-being? The fucker is an abuser. Do what you can to get him out of HER life. She and I both want him in the army. It's the best and most sure fire way of teacging him a life's lesson and keeping him away from her.There were no witnesses and she had already said that if the Police are involved she will not testify. Knowing the siruation the way I do she is more likely to call me a liar, lie about the source of the bruises and turn the situation aroung to protect him and make me to blame. That is the situation that I am trying to avoid. On balance doing the very best in the circumstances to protect her. There is also the possibility that she will walk and leave. Or the worse possible scenario blame me for the bruises. Co-opting her agreement here is, believe me, the very best I can do.

pixidustpet -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 6:10:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx I applaud you I honestly do for your honesty. This is a forum viewed and used by SADISTS and MASOCHISTS is it not? People who burn each other, cut each other, string each other up by ropes. Piss on each other. Shove huge objects into cunts and take videos of it. Psychologically humiliate each other, spit, punch kick and choke? Cane until the skin splits???And beg for more? Or am I in the wrong pkace? Stuff done consensually that makes my daughter's night look like a picnic in the park? that's MY point, prinsexx. your daughter did NOT consent to this. she may think she needs to do whatever to keep this young man in her life, but she didnt tell him "do whatever you want to me and i'll keep running back to you". conversely, if she DID... why post about it at all? i'm not being snarky, i'm honestly asking. yeah, i have a daughter and i wouldnt want her in a non-consentual relationship, and i would HOPE she listens to me. but if she CHOSE to be what (to an outsider's eyes) looks like abuse, i would hope she is able to say "this is what i want, and i agreed to these actions". i'm also her mama and i dont have to be her friend. period. kitten

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 6:11:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Starbuck09 Prinsexx I do not understand you have said a number of times that you wnated an intelligent debate on this subject but you have not even attempted to do that. You are responding for the most part to posts that allow you to feel like a victim castigated by an ''ignorant'' public. for example I have asked you nearly ten times now if you have spoken to this young man's parantys and you have yet to deign a reply. A debate takes two to tango prinsexx I am doing my level best to help you but you are making it hard to believe that you actually want advice. My intention was not to open this up to public debate for advixe on what to do within my own family. The title of the thread was not: help please with a family crisis. The thread was about the nature of submission..submission by consent, sunmission to violence, green sunmission, inexperience and so on. If I had to come onto collar to ask for this type of advice then i would seriously worry about my capacity as a mother. No I have not been to his parents. He is an adult. And joining the army in a dew days time. The family is a tight knit family, as protective of him as i am of mine. My daughter knows him well enough to know the outcome of any of my attempts to inform the family. There were no witnesses and it would simply be a question of his word against mine and attempts espexially by the family to save face.

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