RE: Young submission and its consequences

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beargonewild -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:08:42 PM)
How I see it Jonnie, in the truest and broadest sense of the term abuse is we all are abusers in one form or another. I abuse tobacco, I have abuse alcohol, I have also abused myself by attempting to end my life at one point years ago....it's a matter of perspective. Even us who are into S&M, we agree to a form of physical abuse when we allow another to beat our body black and blue.

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:10:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark It's got nothing to do with green submission. To call it that or even try and recognise it as that, enables abuse to occur. And that is the biggest thing. It's not about submission no matter how Prin (you) want to make the thread about it. It's about her daughters inability to make a good decision. the.dark. I absolutely agree. But D it has absolutely nothing to do with the way you define submission. I wish what had happened had nothing to do with submission. But are you absolutely certian and sure that this is so? Is there no submissive by name or nature who has never longed to be owned, longed to serve, long to be loved and appreciated that s/he would not, has not and would never pit temself at risk in order to get that?Would bever beg for attention. Would never follow the object of their need? would bever spend hours dressing for them? Would never think about them as a near obsession? tolerate bad and good behaviours from them without distinction and without limit? Are you sure? Or is this just about hoping that your type of submission, which you have worked out and which is catered for in a perfcetly loving and enduring abuse free relationship, isn't the type of submission you hope and pray is the only type of submission out there that there is? My daughter does not know the difference between the two and I cannot do it for her.

Starbuck09 -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:11:41 PM)
1 I do not understand your comment about being a whole person prinsexx I was asking if you see a connection between your own experiences and how you reacted to them and your daughters situation in the present. 2 That does't answer what I was saying. Making excuse, no matter how plausible, for an abusive person's behaviour is a textbook reaction. You appear to be doing this now for your daughter's abuser rather than recognising it as simply unacceptable behaviour. 3 AS above making excuses for your daughters abuse. 4 I am well versed in domestic abuse and how there is anb abundance of both male and female abusers. The point I made here was that I have never hit a woman as I control my base emotions rather than allow them to control me. The fact that I am a man is incidental which is why the analogy is of me hitting a woman that is all. Again however your daughter has behaved is no mitigating factor to assault her. 5 The army may have deemed him ready because they do not know that he habitually beats up his girlfriend if they did they would think again. They like me can only go on the evidence presented to the, and I am telling you prinsexx that this boy is not yet ready for the armed forces of Britian. You would be doing him a favour by forcing him to grow up if he wants to pursue his chosen career. Having a criminal record is no barrier to joining the army provided one can demonstrate that you have matured. [the only anomaly to this is the intelligence services as criminal matters could allow you to become compromised.] 6 Then like I say if she is not stupid then in time she will come to understand that intervention on your part was a wise move borne of love not a spiteful act to ruin her ''happiness''. His intelligence or lack thereof is immaterial to that.

JonnieBoy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:12:37 PM)
I'm not dismissing any advice as "kangaroo court" I'm just not in agreement with the approach of some of the "witch burners" at that juncture. Pirate

Kalista07 -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:13:03 PM)
Stella et. al, My original post while somewhat abrasive was perfectly honest and came from a place of perfect honesty...That was post number 16. Although apparently it was not attacking enough because it was not even responded to...My next post was post #74 and it was a response to Prinsexx multiple statements that people were not responding to the thread the way she wanted them to.....i simply asked her what she was looking for. So i could offer her some help. Apparently that was not going to insite enough righteous anger or whatever has been going on here because it was also ignored. Post # 86 i did exactly what Prinsexx stated in another post she stated she was looking for, a submissive (slave actually...but who's keeping score) to relate to that experience. So, i shared my experience. And i also shared my experience with how i took responsibility to get better and make sure i would not continue to put myself in that situation again... And in that post..i was attacked. One sentence was the only one she even looked at. i do not feel i have attacked Prinsexx. i do not feel i have treated her harshly.. i do not feel therapy is some harsh punishment. But, then again since i do that for a living i guess i wouldn't. It's interesting to me that post #100 was not responded to either...But then again perhaps i'm just invisible here. And after all i may just be a witch burner. Kali

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:14:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild How I see it Jonnie, in the truest and broadest sense of the term abuse is we all are abusers in one form or another. I abuse tobacco, I have abuse alcohol, I have also abused myself by attempting to end my life at one point years ago....it's a matter of perspective. Even us who are into S&M, we agree to a form of physical abuse when we allow another to beat our body black and blue. I applaud you I honestly do for your honesty. This is a forum viewed and used by SADISTS and MASOCHISTS is it not? People who burn each other, cut each other, string each other up by ropes. Piss on each other. Shove huge objects into cunts and take videos of it. Psychologically humiliate each other, spit, punch kick and choke? Cane until the skin splits???And beg for more? Or am I in the wrong pkace? Stuff done consensually that makes my daughter's night look like a picnic in the park?

LaTigresse -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:15:42 PM)
I think it is admirable that Prin has friends here that know her well in real life. They appear to have a very different vision of the woman she is than the vision the rest of us get via simply reading her words. When bringing an emotional and personal topic to the forums, something that the poster may get a great deal of emotionally charged replies on, that poster needs to keep in mind, when reading those replies, that the vision of that topic is going to be dramatically coloured by the vision the poster has given of themself through their past words. Whether that vision and the responses are fair or not, it is what it is. Anyone that posts here about personal stuff needs to keep it in mind.........as do their friends. Reality and perception are often very coloured.

Kalista07 -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:17:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx I applaud you I hoestly do for your honesty. This is a forum viewed and used by SADISTS and MASOCHISTS is it not? People who burn each other, cut each other, string each other up by ropes. Piss on each other. Shove huge objects into cunts and take videos of it. Psychologically humiliate each other, spit, punch kick and choke? Cane until the skin splits??? Or am I in the wrong pkace? Stuff done consensually that makes my daughter's night look like a picnic in the park? The main difference as i see it is consent...

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:19:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 Prinsexx multiple statements that people were not responding to the thread the way she wanted them to.... Your words not mine. I have never said and by the way only respond in the way I want you to. To anyone.

beargonewild -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:22:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx I applaud you I hoestly do for your honesty. This is a forum viewed and used by SADISTS and MASOCHISTS is it not? People who burn each other, cut each other, string each other up by ropes. Piss on each other. Shove huge objects into cunts and take videos of it. Psychologically humiliate each other, spit, punch kick and choke? Cane until the skin splits??? Or am I in the wrong pkace? Stuff done consensually that makes my daughter's night look like a picnic in the park? The main difference as i see it is consent... And that Kali......is the pivotal truth. We who are masochists do consent to have another bruise and cause us pain solely based upon us agreeing to allow that to happen. It is a huge difference from a predator grabbing a person and dragging then across the pavement or punching the hell out of the victim.

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:22:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx I applaud you I hoestly do for your honesty. This is a forum viewed and used by SADISTS and MASOCHISTS is it not? People who burn each other, cut each other, string each other up by ropes. Piss on each other. Shove huge objects into cunts and take videos of it. Psychologically humiliate each other, spit, punch kick and choke? Cane until the skin splits??? Or am I in the wrong pkace? Stuff done consensually that makes my daughter's night look like a picnic in the park? The main difference as i see it is consent... Yes of course. You are right. So: there might come a time when she comes home with cuts and bruises and then turns to me and says oh but by the way mom it's ok I consented. Then I have a situation. Then I really do have a situation.

LaTigresse -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:22:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark It's got nothing to do with green submission. To call it that or even try and recognise it as that, enables abuse to occur. And that is the biggest thing. It's not about submission no matter how Prin (you) want to make the thread about it. It's about her daughters inability to make a good decision. the.dark. I absolutely agree. But D it has absolutely nothing to do with the way you define submission. I wish what had happened had nothing to do with submission. But are you absolutely certian and sure that this is so? Is there no submissive by name or nature who has never longed to be owned, longed to serve, long to be loved and appreciated that s/he would not, has not and would never pit temself at risk in order to get that?Would bever beg for attention. Would never follow the object of their need? would bever spend hours dressing for them? Would never think about them as a near obsession? tolerate bad and good behaviours from them without distinction and without limit? My daughter does not know the difference between the two and I cannot do it for her. Prin, what you describe is what I see in most teens, especially girls. I must agree that it has nothing to do with submission. As a parent, while we cannot do it for them, it is our responsibility to guide and protect. Even when they do not want it or think they need it. Just because they physically look like adults, does not mean they are. They still need parented. Even when it isn't fun or easy.

barelynangel -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:23:50 PM)
I hope when he really hurts her -- and he will, prinnsex you know this simply from your own experience -- that you actually do finally say something to someone like the authorities and not make the excuse of it will hurt HIM somehow. Perhaps instead of seeing the posts as attacks you see them as people who have read what YOU have written and see a situation wherein you are enabling your daughter and making excuses for him and what's happened. I just hope you have not used her submissiveness as a reason for her to "understand" why this has happened to her. You have an opportunity to teach her NOW versus 10 years from now when she calls you saying mom he's hit the kids, mom he really hurt me this time i need you to come get me and the kids, mom he has flipped out and won't let me leave. Sound familiar - this time it won't be you saying it but your daughter. Every person has instincts -- she isn't listening to hers and you aren't listening to yours. All in all, you are enabling her -- good intentions and attempts to try aside. You can't make this about submissiveness, you can't make it about HER just being young, you can't make it about her doing something wrong -- you need to make this WRONG AND UNACCEPTABLE -- period -- in your eyes, in her eyes, and in his eyes. IF this is occuring that is awesome -- if its not, then perhaps you need to think about why that is. If she is a submissive in the way of this board let her find it in excitement and comfort and relief -- not fear and panic and pain. angel

LaTigresse -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:26:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kalista07 quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx I applaud you I hoestly do for your honesty. This is a forum viewed and used by SADISTS and MASOCHISTS is it not? People who burn each other, cut each other, string each other up by ropes. Piss on each other. Shove huge objects into cunts and take videos of it. Psychologically humiliate each other, spit, punch kick and choke? Cane until the skin splits??? Or am I in the wrong pkace? Stuff done consensually that makes my daughter's night look like a picnic in the park? The main difference as i see it is consent... An even more complex question as a parent, does that child know enough, are they mature enough, to give that consent? They may also consent to using crystal meth but as a parent, we, with our great maturity and wisdom have to create boundaries and determine if they are able to take on the responsibility of their consenting. We are there to protect them against harm until they are mature enough to do so for themselves.

pyroaquatic -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:26:32 PM)
The reality of the situation is you have a fellow who is selfish and undeserving of your daughter's submission. Sure it is consensual (to a point). It definitely does not sound safe or sane. Your daughter must see something special in this boy or else there would be nothing there. There are three people in the situation and that makes for nine different perspectives(how you see yourself, daughter, boy How your daughter sees herself, boy, you. how the boy sees himself, you, your daughter.) I can understand the obsessive quality of a submissive. To spend hours making one's self pretty just so you can be torn up by pavement. No, there is no respect there. Why would any decent person on this earth destroy something so beautiful? This submission is something to be honored and cherished, not something that should be tossed about. shakes head Your daughter will understand eventually. It does not matter if you interfere or not. What matters is that you are there for her, voice your concern, and respect her decision. I had to walk away from something like this. It was a different type of abuse with many gray areas. Disenchanted I saw the sum of my situation and I walked away to gain a greater understanding and perspective of it. I am still learning. Abuse does not have to be physical... it can be mental as well. With much platonic love, Pyroaquatic

Starbuck09 -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:27:23 PM)
Yes then you would have a situation, but it is a hypothetical one irrelevant to the reality you are faced with right now. In S and M one does not only consent to abuse but desires it. Here your daughter meets neither of those criteria so her submissiveness or lack therof is a non issue. If this carries on to it's sordid conclusion as all too often happens, when she pushes his buttons one final time and he guts her from clit to sternum the philosophical semantics of her fate will be dissolved by your grief. So pre empt this take some action now. Have you spoken to the young man's parents?

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:29:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Prin, what you describe is what I see in most teens, especially girls. I must agree that it has nothing to do with submission. As a parent, while we cannot do it for them, it is our responsibility to guide and protect. Even when they do not want it or think they need it. Just because they physically look like adults, does not mean they are. They still need parented. Even when it isn't fun or easy. I have three. The eldest is a dominant male The middle a submissive male. The daughter is submissive. I know it. By instinct and by recognition. If she had the tools by nature to really assert her requrements with him this situation would not be ariding. If that opens up a flame about how submissives also assert then so be it. But it's a difficult one because all she wants to do us please him. And parenthood? The most difficult, blessed, enduring and tasking job I have ever done. Everything else and anything else is simplicity itself.

barelynangel -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:29:52 PM)
Just out of curiosity have you spoken to the kid? What is his take is he telling you -- i am her dom her sadist her master? Somehow i don't think he is. Prinnsex YOU can't sit there and make her BDSM choices for her because you recognize a submissive nature. THAT is not your place to do so. Maybe she doesn't WANT to be a man's submissive but wants to find a nice vanilla guy who will treat her right whom she will take care of him and their kids. Maybe its not some guy who will beat her up when he is upset or loses his cool, maybe her pleasing is a concept of she just wants people HAPPY in her life -- this guy isn't going to be that for her -- submissive nature of hers or not -- he will exploit it in a negative way -- not allow her to thrive in his happiness of her pleasing him. Hell call your dominant son and ask him to step in -- is he in the lifestyle of D/s or do you just say he is a dominant man and presume its a BDSM concept dominance? angel

JonnieBoy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:30:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: beargonewild Even us who are into S&M, we agree to a form of physical abuse when we allow another to beat our body black and blue. Yes, and there are plenty who think you ought to be strung up for that, but don't tell too many kinksters ... you'd have one hell of a queue ! If there is a set of BDSM commandments ... let they who are without "sin" cast the first stone. Back to topic. I used to flat share with a Queer (his request that I use that term) and whilst I don't think that was the case in the OP , he LOVED being beaten up, positively invited it on himself (but only by really sexy boyfriends [;)]) occasionally it would go too far for him, but he, to my knowledge, always forgave. I never got a grip on it but it never happened when I was at home. Welcome to the UK, because when his pal's reported a guy (as witnesses), he told the Police it was true but refused to make a formal statement. Guess the outcome? Pirate

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/9/2009 4:34:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic I am still learning. Abuse does not have to be physical... it can be mental as well. With much platonic love, Pyroaquatic I get you. Thank you.

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