RE: Young submission and its consequences

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Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/10/2009 8:30:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: barelynangel Whatever your reason was for posting it Prinnsex -- it obviously did not turn out as you planned if many of your posts are an indication. Because you STARTED the thread and gave the story -- you are in fact the instigator of what occured. The stone in the pond so to speak -- ripples etc. You aren't a victim of what happened on this thread, whether you meant to or not -- you opened a can of worms with your initial story and the subsequent posts. Somehow i can't believe you didn't know the reactions wouldn't be what they were from many. You spoke of abuse of a guy hurting a woman, if there were other facts that needed to be said -- you DIDN'T say them. That is your fault. All in all, you instigated the responses by your initial post -- whether you MEANT to get those responses is moot -- when you post something you are placing it up for judgement, and opinions -- you can't control what judgements and opinions you will get. angel I'm just going to repeat this back...and this is the last time I'm going to do it because quite frankly it's boring: Whatever your reason was for posting it Prinnsex -- it obviously did not turn out as you planned if I actually don't plan or even attempt to plan how things turn out. As difficult for you to imagine as this is: I didn't plan for my daughter to come home in bruises either simply so I could get attention on an Off Topic Forum. Think about this if that's possible for you.

kazzaslave -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 3:22:43 AM)
Greetings prin, zephyr has been over and over your original posting as well as reading the whole thread. You have asked how you can condemn your daughter's relationship when you yourself subject yourself to regular beatings. As someone who has been there zephyr would like to answer that question. The first difference between what your daughter experiences and what a you now experience is viewpoint: The victim of abuse (in this case your daughter) thinks "I don't deserve better than this" That person submits to the violence and keeps going back because they honestly think so little of themself that the abusive relationship is seen as a normal, healthy one. There is self-loathing, self-hatred and usually a role model to draw on. The submissive on the other hand submits from a position of strength. The beatings which the submissive experiences are a source of release for both Dom/me and submissive. There is no damage of a physical, mental. or emotional nature. The second difference is the person who beats your daughter vs the person you submit to beatings from. Your daughter's abuser builds himself up by beating her down physically and emotionally. The goal is to destroy rather than build up because it's the only way he can feel better about himself. The dominant on the other hand looks to build up his/her submissive mentally and emotionally; the Dominant's goal or one of them anyway is to make their submissive a stronger person. Yes the physical beatings are there in both cases but in the case of the M/s relationship the intent to damage isn't there. In zephyr's view it isn't an issue of consent at all; noone can beat on a person without their consent and in both cases consent is given whether consciously or unconsciously. The consent is revoked only when the victim of DV stands up, says "No, no more I'm not going to let you do this to me anymore" and walks out. But rest assured prin that the relationship your daughter is in is an abusive one which has nothing to do with submission and ending it is a decision your daughter is going to have to make on her own. Noone can do that for her. What you can do is continue to be there for her so that when she decides enough is enough she has somewhere to go. she wishes you well, zephyr (who is using her kazzaslave account until a new one is made)

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 3:38:57 AM)
Going to reply inside your box zephyr quote: ORIGINAL: kazzaslave Greetings prin, zephyr has been over and over your original posting as well as reading the whole thread. You have asked how you can condemn your daughter's relationship when you yourself subject yourself to regular beatings. As someone who has been there zephyr would like to answer that question. Just to clarify: I mean. The first difference between what your daughter experiences and what a you now experience is viewpoint: The victim of abuse (in this case your daughter) thinks "I don't deserve better than this" That person submits to the violence and keeps going back because they honestly think so little of themself that the abusive relationship is seen as a normal, healthy one. There is self-loathing, self-hatred and usually a role model to draw on. I understand and I did do my best to analyse the situation objectively in my lobg post above and to clarify what I felt were the particular dynamics that created her role model for violence The submissive on the other hand submits from a position of strength. The beatings which the submissive experiences are a source of release for both Dom/me and submissive. There is no damage of a physical, mental. or emotional nature. I agree. The second difference is the person who beats your daughter vs the person you submit to beatings from. Your daughter's abuser builds himself up by beating her down physically and emotionally. The goal is to destroy rather than build up because it's the only way he can feel better about himself. In this incident there were no witnesses and I did not want to condemn. But yes I know he builds himself up by putting others down, It was the very first incident of him (alledgedly) doing so with my daughter. The dominant on the other hand looks to build up his/her submissive mentally and emotionally; the Dominant's goal or one of them anyway is to make their submissive a stronger person. Yes the physical beatings are there in both cases but in the case of the M/s relationship the intent to damage isn't there. I absolutely agree. In a perfect world. There are, sadly, many so-called Masters who do not know the difference. And many s-types who do not recognise damage in the name of bdsm until it is too late. Emotional masochism is a mine field. In zephyr's view it isn't an issue of consent at all; noone can beat on a person without their consent and in both cases consent is given whether consciously or unconsciously. The consent is revoked only when the victim of DV stands up, says "No, no more I'm not going to let you do this to me anymore" and walks out. But rest assured prin that the relationship your daughter is in is an abusive one which has nothing to do with submission and ending it is a decision your daughter is going to have to make on her own. Noone can do that for her. What you can do is continue to be there for her so that when she decides enough is enough she has somewhere to go. I did not say that hecause she was submissive she 'created' this event. I explained how, because she had been in an abusive relationship with her father, and had not recognised it as such, that she did not, does not recognise the distinction between the two. And yes she will have to sort out the consequences of her submission and learn to take responsibility for her disposition. Thank you zephyr for making the distinctions so clear and for stating the differences so simply yet eloquently. she wishes you well, zephyr (who is using her kazzaslave account until a new one is made) [color="#888888" size="3"] Edited to add: emotional sado-masochism is a mine field where there are no bruises or cuts and therefore no physical evidence that are indicators of where limits and safety has been transgressed. I know because I was (less so now since my tolerance level for emotional masochism got an over dose) seeking out, courting and soliciting ways of getting my fix. There was a point at which use turned into abuse. The responsibility for that lay not only with me as the end user but with the supplier. In other words don't sell me something in the name of pure Mastery when it is contaminated.

Malkinius -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 4:18:05 AM)
Greetings Prinsexx.... I have just read through every post in this thread up through zephyr's post. My thoughts about what was happening and what should be done have changed a lot in my reading. What I thought initially was mostly wrong. A good chunk of what I thought during my reading was, after some reflection, wrong. I was where a number of posters where. It is not worth going over the process, so I am going to jump to the end. I do have a few comments and conclusions: It is better that the boy...and yes, he is still a boy rather than a man, goes into the military. I agree that given your society and yes, I am American, not British and yes I only see it from the outside, he probably has no chance in hell of making it without some sort of outside intervention and the military is such a path. I have not spoken about this with a former Royal Marine I know (who is a slave) but it would be interesting hearing their opinion about this situation. I say it is best he goes for several reasons. First to get away from where he is. Second to try to have a future. Third to get away from your daughter. Fourth is that he may learn to control himself and by doing so learn to control himself with others, especially your daughter. It does not sound like he has much control with her right now. My understanding is that one of the major reasons abusers do what they do is the feeling of lack of control in their lives and they both take out the frustration on others and want to have someone they can control to make up for others controlling them. Fifth is that if he can not control himself and he does continue the pattern of abuse, the military will do more to him than civil authorities will. It is better for your daughter that he is away from her. You very clearly expressed (to me) why she is as she is and how it both came about and is expressed. She must, as you stated, get past that to mature and grow in a healthy direction. Where she is is both unhealthy and dangerous. It will provoke physically and mentally bad things being done to her. (Note to the other readers: Yes, I said and meant provoke. If you push people hard enough you will get a reaction out of anyone. Sometimes that reaction is violent and it will most likely be deservedly aimed at the source of the provocation.) How you get her to a healthy mental and physical place is the question. There is a point that was touched on by several posters and one I have given some thought to over the years because of slaves I have owned or worked with. That is the question of whether a M/s situation can be a part of mental therapy. I started a thread about it elsewhere sometime back and got some interesting reactions. http://www.seekdiscipline.com/posts/178596/0 I am NOT saying this is what should be done with your daughter but I will agree with some who have said that a good dominant who has control over his submissive can keep her from doing things she should not do. I know it can be done as I have done it from the dominant side. I am not saying you should go out and find a Dom or Master for your daughter tho that had been one of the thoughts I had early on. While it might solve some problems it would open up too many more. I am always in favor of reducing the number of problems, not increasing them. Still...something should be done. You are the only one who can answer what that something is and should only do so in consultation with your adult daughter. Right now you are enabling many young people to do things which does harm their future. Yes, you are doing so for good reasons with the hope that they will grow out of them. You ARE an enabler. You MAY be right in doing so for some of them. Personally I don't believe you are following a good or correct path but I do think that you believe that you are following the best path you can given circumstances and history that only you know. In this situation, you are very much an adult and it is your responsibility for what you are doing. You do seem to be taking that responsibility and I consider that a very good thing. So...back to the original question...what do you do? Get that boy's butt into the military and hope and pray he makes it. Make sure he knows that the military does not like the kind of life he has been leading and he will have to change or the trouble he will be in is worse than what he has been in. Get your daughter a different focus than the boy. Time and distance will help here. Help get her a focus that will be a positive model for her rather than the negative ones of her father and regretfully, her current love interest. The first part is easy. The second hard. You have a better idea what she needs than any of us. Think through what you do and want to achieve than work for that. No, this is not very concrete or detailed answers but there really are none in this situation if you are not going to have the boy arrested and I don't think you are. Be well...... Malkinius

JonnieBoy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 4:31:14 AM)
You have read all this ... what's your opinion on the cultural translation ? (NO I'm not taking the piss) Pirate

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 4:59:59 AM)
Going to reply inside your box and pick out some of the things you said and hope that in the process I don't mis-read you. quote: ORIGINAL: Malkinius I do have a few comments and conclusions: It is better that the boy...and yes, he is still a boy rather than a man, goes into the military. I agree that given your society and yes, I am American, not British and yes I only see it from the outside, he probably has no chance in hell of making it without some sort of outside intervention and the military is such a path. Believe me it ois his only hope. Although he comes from a strong well knit family there are issues there (as there are in any family). A deceased father, a step-father who is constantly conflictual and the boys total inability to process that. It IS a waste-land here. In this area of the UK I would say it is more like an econnomic war zone. Swathes of contry-side torn up for building redevelopment left strewn with rusting JCB's like tanks out in a dessert. Derelict office spaces still looking like visualisations in an archtects head. Except if you look closer. Compaq, 3M...whole towns whose prosperity relied upon people being in work..just dereliction. Like a vast set for 28 days later. call the movie 48,000 square feet later...call it 48 million square feet of office space to rent and you might have a fair picture. All there is are drugs and binge drinking and getting lost in the cyber space of a Playstation. No benefit system available for 16 to 18 year olds. No housing for them to live in. It is a lost generation and the consequences of that alone are almost impossible to comprehend. The Army is his only hope. It is better for your daughter that he is away from her. You very clearly expressed (to me) why she is as she is and how it both came about and is expressed. She must, as you stated, get past that to mature and grow in a healthy direction. Where she is is both unhealthy and dangerous. I ttotally agree. And what I instantly intervened upon last night was a telephone conversation she was having where she had begun to brag about the bruises to her friend. If you push people hard enough you will get a reaction out of anyone. I agree. No gender bias. Just because she is a girl she can provoke as powerfully if not more so than the young man himself. That is the question of whether a M/s situation can be a part of mental therapy. I started a thread about it elsewhere sometime back and got some interesting reactions. http://www.seekdiscipline.com/posts/178596/0 I will look at that thread. I can't remember if I contributed or if I did what I said. But yes, yes and yes again. I think one of the succinct roles of Mastery (differentiatimng it from the control of domination) is to save a slave from self-harm, self-deprecation and to anble a slave to walk the fine line between the consequences of no limits (use) and abuse. I may be defining abuse here somewhat differently than is common. What I mean by abuse use is ab-use and not something that is DONE to someone else. Ab-use... that which interferes with the usual functioning and creates a failure to function. Repeat: not something done to someone else. I am not saying you should go out and find a Dom or Master for your daughter tho that had been one of the thoughts I had early on. I am 'out of' if you will a 1950's traditional home. Her father and my ex was Italian. He came equipped with a clear set of roles for himself and for the mother within the family. And a cultural translation is required here. Unless you lived in post war Britain and were working class. Or have lived within the confines of an Italian family. Neither of those are play acting situations. My daughter has internalised both of those sets of values. I forsee she will be a 'traditional' woman to all intents and purposes. Maybe she will rebel and surprise me though,. Who knows. Right now you are enabling many young people to do things which does harm their future. Yes, you are doing so for good reasons with the hope that they will grow out of them. You ARE an enabler. You MAY be right in doing so for some of them. Personally I don't believe you are following a good or correct path but I do think that you believe that you are following the best path you can given circumstances and history that only you know. We all follow are own paths. If I could wave a magic wand then the abuse would never have happened. But then looking back the father never would have been able to co-opt his anger or his need to dominate a woman unless it was through outbursts of rage. He died a month ago aged 44: his body consumed by anger turned in on itself. No, this is not very concrete or detailed answers but there really are none in this situation if you are not going to have the boy arrested and I don't think you are. It's not difficult to get a man arrested for abuse. With regard to the father: he was 'arrested' three times. At the last charge he appeared in court and I gave witness by a video link. The prosection believed him to be so dangerous that they advised I was not in the same court room. He still walked from court a free man. He still was awarded access and shared custody of his children. So:I know how difficult it is to get a man charged. .... Thank you. Will go back and read your thread now.

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 5:13:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy You have read all this ... what's your opinion on the cultural translation ? (NO I'm not taking the piss) Pirate That the CPS are a laoda wet wankers who couldn't charge a sparkler on Bonfire night???

SweetPoosy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 10:13:52 AM)
quote: Right now you are enabling many young people to do things which does harm their future. Yes, you are doing so for good reasons with the hope that they will grow out of them. You ARE an enabler. You MAY be right in doing so for some of them. Personally I don't believe you are following a good or correct path but I do think that you believe that you are following the best path you can given circumstances and history that only you know. In this situation, you are very much an adult and it is your responsibility for what you are doing. You do seem to be taking that responsibility and I consider that a very good thing. Malkinius, when I read your post, specifically about the "enabling" part, I believed that you were referring to the OP's statement quote: My house is a sanctuary not only for my own but for any of their friends who stay here, eat here and sleep here. They are allowed to drink, take drugs (no hard drugs) and have sex here. That is because I have had experience of drinking, taking drugs and having sex and I would rather them do it here than feel they had to go elsewhere. Was I correct in that assumption?

Malkinius -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 11:32:02 AM)
Greetings SweetPoosy.... quote: ORIGINAL: SweetPoosy quote: Right now you are enabling many young people to do things which does harm their future. Yes, you are doing so for good reasons with the hope that they will grow out of them. You ARE an enabler. You MAY be right in doing so for some of them. Personally I don't believe you are following a good or correct path but I do think that you believe that you are following the best path you can given circumstances and history that only you know. In this situation, you are very much an adult and it is your responsibility for what you are doing. You do seem to be taking that responsibility and I consider that a very good thing. Malkinius, when I read your post, specifically about the "enabling" part, I believed that you were referring to the OP's statement quote: My house is a sanctuary not only for my own but for any of their friends who stay here, eat here and sleep here. They are allowed to drink, take drugs (no hard drugs) and have sex here. That is because I have had experience of drinking, taking drugs and having sex and I would rather them do it here than feel they had to go elsewhere. Was I correct in that assumption? Yes, you were. There were a few others but that one sums it up very well. Be well..... Malkinius

Malkinius -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 11:36:16 AM)
Greetings JonnieBoy.... quote: ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy You have read all this ... what's your opinion on the cultural translation ? (NO I'm not taking the piss) Pirate If you are talking about the translation between current low-end British culture and what the government is doing to its own people and the similar situation in the US.....then it is worse in Britain. The US doesn't have throw-away people in anything like the same form you do as a conscious government policy to create a dependent, ignorant, violent and permanent lower class. The reasons I can think of for it range from historical to conspiratorial. I have the feeling that it is some of both and other reasons. Be well..... Malkinius

stella41b -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 11:53:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Malkinius Right now you are enabling many young people to do things which does harm their future. Yes, you are doing so for good reasons with the hope that they will grow out of them. You ARE an enabler. You MAY be right in doing so for some of them. Personally I don't believe you are following a good or correct path but I do think that you believe that you are following the best path you can given circumstances and history that only you know. In this situation, you are very much an adult and it is your responsibility for what you are doing. You do seem to be taking that responsibility and I consider that a very good thing. To me 'enabler' is one of those politically correct psychobabble terms directed at someone who condones or allows someone else to do something which doesn't meet with "mainstream social approval/acceptance". We are talking young people and real life here, and you can be sure that if Prin (and other such parents who do the same thing) don't become 'enablers', then the young people will just go off and find other 'enablers'. The streets are full of such 'enablers' and not all of them will be as experienced in life or as responsible as someone like Prin. This includes the 'enablers' helping as certain section of the street homeless, the teenage runaways, stay where they are, out there on the streets. In fact you could even say that mainstream society and people as a whole are also 'enablers' if you look at it a certain way because every day they walk past these teenage runaways on their way to their offices, places of work, shops, restaurants and nightclubs apparently unconcerned enough not to be making louder noises for someone to be concerned. This is however an extreme example. Other 'enablers' can be the media, social role models, and their friends and peers. But then again I don't look at people as enablers, but as people dealing with life as it happens. But that's just my take and my opinion. I also accept that people make mistakes, young people especially, and they have to make choices and decisions - again not always the right ones - and it is this which is the real learning process in life, not what is taught in school or what is taught by parents which is just preparation. And sometimes the choices or even the options just aren't good or correct, but just adequate, barely adequate, or even unknown. Life to me is also about compromises and risks. Indeed I would even suggest that the ability to consistently and independently make good and correct decisions and choices doesn't take place until someone has lived life and gained some life experience together with emotional maturity. The point at which that happens is purely arbitrary, depending on the inner nature, character, childhood experiences, education and intelligence of each individual person and their trajectory through life. And right through people do things which may potentially harm their future, they smoke cigarettes, they eat the wrong types of foods, they drink too much alcohol, they form incompatible relationships, they commit crimes, they take on too much credit and get too heavily into debt. But on the whole they also somehow cope and learn to deal and cope with the consequences. You see you could call shopkeepers 'enablers' for selling cigarettes, bar owners and pub landlords 'enablers' for selling alcohol, supermarkets 'enablers' for selling unhealthy food and so on using that very same logic as you. I also don't subscribe or accept the term 'enabler' because I believe in personal responsibility and that someone is responsible for what they think, do and say from the earliest stages of life. This is why I disagree with the point above and do not think that Prin is doing anything inappropriate here because she is in fact holding those young people accountable and treating them as adults. In doing what she is doing she is seeking to communicate at peer level but providing an example and modelling perhaps much better attitudes and behaviour than can be found on the street. In fact I'm of the opinion that if more parents did what she and other parents do and took more of an interest in what their teenage offspring actually do and think then society would be better off as a result.

SweetPoosy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 11:59:05 AM)
Thank you Malkinius for your confirmation. Which brings me to two points. One, is that it never ceases to amaze me that some people only read what they want to read, and can completely ignore or twist anything to be the way they want it to be. I have watched the OP fail to address very salient points brought up by others, and then go on to misread or ignore other things. I wonder why this is? The second point is that I am amazed that there has been no clamor from the masses here about the OP's statement quote: My house is a sanctuary not only for my own but for any of their friends who stay here, eat here and sleep here. They are allowed to drink, take drugs (no hard drugs) and have sex here. That is because I have had experience of drinking, taking drugs and having sex and I would rather them do it here than feel they had to go elsewhere. Once again, it is a difference in location but I find myself surprised in this day and age that someone would admit to allowing underage drinking and other behaviours under her roof. She is lucky she doesn't live in Arizona, where it is highly illegal to provide alcohol to a minor, even if the minor is your child. Any minor found to have ANY alcohol in their system can be arrested, and teenagers coming back from Mexico are often tested and arrested! When I was trying to get my youngest daughter's drinking and drug abuse under control, it was houses such as the OP's that made such efforts impossible. Whether it was an adult who conciously allowed minors to congregate and enabled them to imbibe, or whether is was simply a home where the parent was absent and didn't know what went on while they were away, places where teenagers don't have to face the consequences of their actions are not the healthiest thing, IMHO. But I suppose all of this is the subject for another topic, so I will leave it alone for now. The OP obviously sees nothing wrong in what she is doing, and has her justifications in place, so there is no point in trying to show her a different viewpoint.

LaTigresse -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 12:05:13 PM)
Stella, there is a line that is crossed. Communication and holding accountable is one thing. Allowing young people with immature brains and reasoning to do whatever they want and say it's okay because they are doing it at home is something entirely different. She can treat them like adults all she wants, the fact is, they are not adults. Treating them as so, does not make it magically happen. In my opinion it sends the signal that their poor choices are acceptable choices.

Wyzardsgirl -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 12:30:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Stella, there is a line that is crossed. Communication and holding accountable is one thing. Allowing young people with immature brains and reasoning to do whatever they want and say it's okay because they are doing it at home is something entirely different. She can treat them like adults all she wants, the fact is, they are not adults. Treating them as so, does not make it magically happen. In my opinion it sends the signal that their poor choices are acceptable choices. I totally agree with you, LaTigresse (for what it's worth on this thread). Admittedly, I don't know jack about laws in the U.K, but here in the U.S., Prinsexx could be charged with any number of violations of U.S. law. The first one that comes to mind is contributing to the delinquency of minors. I have had the unfortunate experience very recently of watching my neighbors do the same thing with a fifteen year old girl who was spending time with them. The girl is the biological daughter of one of my neighbors, and he has shared custody of her. She spent two weeks with him and two nights ago I walked over to ask them to keep the noise down. It was 2:00 am and they were all out drinking and creating a disturbance. When I saw the father was pouring shots for the fifteen year old girl, I saw red. I confronted him and he blew me off. To make a long story short, I had every intention of calling the police but before I got a chance, the father got in his 15 year old daughter's face (he was fall down drunk himself) and threw a shot of whiskey in her face and called her an 'effing bitch'. Damn! I swear I'm not making this up. He backed her up against the side of the garage and was ready to start in on her with his fists. Another male pulled him back from his daughter. I came home and DID call the cops, but slow response time. By the time they got here (15 minutes later), someone else had taken daddy off to his mom's house to cool down. The police did make a report and called the girl's mother to come pick her up. Since there was more than one witness to dad pouring shots for the 15 year old and the potential physical altercation, there's a warrant out for his arrest. I'm not sure if they've tracked him down yet since I haven't talked to anyone else in the last two days. Point is, in the U.S. there are laws that hold adults accountable for allowing minors to engage in certain activities. Damn. I'm just angry that the OP still can't see how she's doing inappropriate things with minors.

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 1:09:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetPoosy Once again, it is a difference in location but I find myself surprised in this day and age that someone would admit to allowing underage drinking and other behaviours under her roof. She is lucky she doesn't live in Arizona, where it is highly illegal to provide alcohol to a minor, even if the minor is your child. Any minor found to have ANY alcohol in their system can be arrested, and teenagers coming back from Mexico are often tested and arrested! First point to clarify: I never said anything about provinding alcohol to minors. Second point: I am indeed lucky that I have never lived in Arizona but have travelled, lived and worked extensively across Eirope. In Europe alcohol consumption is a part of daily life allowing young people to be socialised appropriately. Three: I do not and would not impose my etic upon Arizona. I am often offended by ideological imperialism. Please read what I say and try to avoid projection of your ideology onto me.

Wyzardsgirl -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 1:10:02 PM)
JonnieBoy, Your threats toward me on this thread are ludicrous. I deleted the cmail you sent me without even reading it. I have no intention of 'retracting' a damned thing. I won't apologize and kiss your bully ass. You come across as not dominant, but a typical school yard bully. You have no recourse to claim any legal action against me. Barelynangel laid it out for you quite well, and I thank her for taking time to post in clear detail what I didn't have the patience to bother with. I did not 'defame' you as you attempted to claim. Again, you're using bully tactics in the hope that you can intimidate. I don't respond to attempted bully tactics. Your responses speak volumes about how insecure you are. Your problems are not my problems. Learn to act like an adult if you expect to be taken seriously. If you attempt to cmail me again, you will not just find that I've deleted the message without reading, but I will block you. Have a nice day!

SweetPoosy -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 1:12:16 PM)
quote: Three: I do not and would not impose my etic upon Arizona. I am often offended by ideological imperialism. Please read what I say and try to avoid projection of your ideology onto me. Just stating what the consequences of your actions would be where I live. I did not state that the laws that I live under should be made universal. See what I mean about twisting things?

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 1:14:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wyzardsgirl quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse .... but here in the U.S., Prinsexx could be charged with any number of violations of U.S. law. The first one that comes to mind is contributing to the delinquency of minors. You have to love it here really............. that statement my dear has made my day. Is it still the Mcarthy era or a witch hunt?

Prinsexx -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 1:16:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetPoosy quote: Three: I do not and would not impose my etic upon Arizona. I am often offended by ideological imperialism. Please read what I say and try to avoid projection of your ideology onto me. Just stating what the consequences of your actions would be where I live. I did not state that the laws that I live under should be made universal. See what I mean about twisting things? No.

Wyzardsgirl -> RE: Young submission and its consequences (8/11/2009 1:22:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx First point to clarify: I never said anything about provinding alcohol to minors. Second point: I am indeed lucky that I have never lived in Arizona but have travelled, lived and worked extensively across Eirope. In Europe alcohol consumption is a part of daily life allowing young people to be socialised appropriately. Three: I do not and would not impose my etic upon Arizona. I am often offended by ideological imperialism. Please read what I say and try to avoid projection of your ideology onto me. Prinsexx, You don't have to provide alcohol or drugs to minors in the U.S. to be arrested for allowing it to go on right under your nose. In the U.S., the simple fact that you allow minors to drink or use drugs in front of, as an adult, is grounds to be charged with delinquency of a minor at the very least. Take it as you will. You've obviously made up your mind that you're doing these minors some kind of 'favor' by using your home as a 'fuck it up and do what you want' because she's not going to do a damned thing to stop us.

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