RE: Men and Emotions? (Full Version)

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RedMagic1 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 12:09:46 PM)

Hm.  I didn't post for the last five days because I was out of the country at a science conference.  Sometimes, when people gave presentations there, audience members would ask them to justify points they had made.  Were they all asking for ulterior reasons?  None of them just wanted to understand the proof of the assertion?

Making a generalization about women, "since time began," is not the hallmark of a careful thinker.  It's the hallmark of someone with a chip on his shoulder about women.  To me, you sound as though you've been burned, and you've got as much baggage as the OP of this thread, but in the other direction.

Very truly yours,

-- DefensiveDom



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 1:49:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HumiliatePorky

Everyone has emotions otherwise, they wouldn't be human beings, some people just react differently than others


Well... except for sociopaths.  Somebody asked earlier if women have no bullshit meter at all, but certain people are very very good at manipulating others, and it doesn't take someone naive or stupid to believe in them.  They someone manage to fool EVERYONE around them.  Take Scott Peterson, Drew Peterson, O.J. Simpson, Mark Hacking, Chris Coleman, Casey Anthony.  These people don't give a flip about anyone but themselves, sadly enough, though they know exactly how to turn on the charm and pretend that they do. 



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 1:58:36 PM)

quote:

you've got as much baggage as the OP of this thread


hey now, don't be bringing me into your angry little argument



RedMagic1 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 2:51:20 PM)

Do you really think holding someone accountable for their words is "angry?"  Or "an argument?"

On another thread, I said the most important thing for you to achieve was an ability to do what you said you were going to do.  You agreed with me.  The same principle is at work in this exchange.  Collarher4ever took a position based on "research."  I asked him to provide that research, and, instead of doing so, he put the work on me and called me defensive.  People who actually have justification for the statements they make have no need to engage in tactics like that.  They can simply provide the justification.  He made a claim he had no ability to back up.

If you want to attract "a better type of man," you need to be able to back your own claims up.  If you tell a guy that you're interested, you need to be able to demonstrate interest, not to sabotage yourself (and him) 24 hours later.  By the same token, if you want to recognize "a better type of man," you need to be able to tell the difference between someone who is able to deliver on promises, and someone who is just talking big.  One easy way to sort some guys out is to see who refuses to be responsible for the words they say.

I can believe holding others accountable -- or being held accountable yourself -- might be something that makes you uncomfortable.  But it's awfully hard to be successful in a relationship, or in life, unless you develop that skill, so I hope you try.



LillyoftheVally -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 2:56:38 PM)

[sm=agree.gif][sm=goodpost.gif]

Well said RM



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 3:02:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Do you really think holding someone accountable for their words is "angry?"  Or "an argument?"

On another thread, I said the most important thing for you to achieve was an ability to do what you said you were going to do.  You agreed with me.  The same principle is at work in this exchange.  Collarher4ever took a position based on "research."  I asked him to provide that research, and, instead of doing so, he put the work on me and called me defensive.  People who actually have justification for the statements they make have no need to engage in tactics like that.  They can simply provide the justification.  He made a claim he had no ability to back up.

If you want to attract "a better type of man," you need to be able to back your own claims up.  If you tell a guy that you're interested, you need to be able to demonstrate interest, not to sabotage yourself (and him) 24 hours later.  By the same token, if you want to recognize "a better type of man," you need to be able to tell the difference between someone who is able to deliver on promises, and someone who is just talking big.  One easy way to sort some guys out is to see who refuses to be responsible for the words they say.

I can believe holding others accountable -- or being held accountable yourself -- might be something that makes you uncomfortable.  But it's awfully hard to be successful in a relationship, or in life, unless you develop that skill, so I hope you try.



Honestly, the ONLY thing I was referring to was your comment about my baggage.  I felt it was unfair, given that I wasn't involved in the *discussion* (better word than argument) between the two of you.  I wasn't saying anything whatsoever pertaining to that discussion.  Somehow you've turned it onto me, though. 

On a completely different note, yes I very strongly agreed with you about the importance of being able to do what you say you're going to do, and I took it to heart.  I do have the ability, and the desire, to learn and grow and change, ya know.  Otherwise I wouldn't even be here, I'd just be going along on my merry way, completely void of any sort of self-awareness.   

quote:

But it's awfully hard to be successful in a relationship, or in life, unless you develop that skill, so I hope you try.


i AM trying.  but it will obviously take some time to prove how seriously i am taking all of this.



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 3:05:03 PM)

Give me a little credit here, ya know?  For recognizing a problem within myself, for wanting to change it, and for being open to the input of others, even when it is critical.  



LillyoftheVally -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 3:06:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2

quote:

But it's awfully hard to be successful in a relationship, or in life, unless you develop that skill, so I hope you try.


i AM trying. but it will obviously take some time to prove how seriously i am taking all of this.



I know that this thread has very much become about you, and I know that can be hard, especially if you feel people are attacking you.

Can I ask you do something though, you seem to a agree with a lot of what people say here, however you are getting conflicting advice because of course different posters have different opinions, actually read the thread again and notice where you are agreeing with things that encourage your damaging patterns of behaviour and those that don't. Actually identifying that really is the first step, and I am not sure you are there yet.

I know it is hard, I am on a similar journey myself and trust me I know slipping back into the same patterns is the most comfortable thing to do.



leadership527 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 3:27:07 PM)

~fast reply~

Wow, people in this thread are getting testy. Too bad since I thought, amazingly enough given the vague way it started and then sort of just wandered all over the map, that this thread had really shaped up nicely.

If I wasn't a guy, it'd make me cry.

*chuckles* Sorry, I just couldn't resist that.



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 3:28:15 PM)

quote:

I know that this thread has very much become about you, and I know that can be hard, especially if you feel people are attacking you.

Can I ask you do something though, you seem to a agree with a lot of what people say here, however you are getting conflicting advice because of course different posters have different opinions, actually read the thread again and notice where you are agreeing with things that encourage your damaging patterns of behaviour and those that don't. Actually identifying that really is the first step, and I am not sure you are there yet.

I know it is hard, I am on a similar journey myself and trust me I know slipping back into the same patterns is the most comfortable thing to do.


It's okay, I don't really feel attacked here... that one comment just rubbed me the wrong way b/c I really feel that I've made some progress... and his comment seemed to completely discount anything positive whatsoever.  Or maybe I'm just being too sensitive.

*deep breath*
lol

I actually do plan to read back through the entire thread, and I'm already aware that there are a lot discrepancies - both between things I myself have said, and all the differing views that others have put out there. 

And I'm sure you're right, I'm probably not entirely "there" yet.  But a lot of things in life take practice, and you will make mistakes and continue to learn as you go.  I think at this point, I've listened and paid attention to everything everyone has said, and from that, I will form my own vision of the person I want to be and do what I can to become that (in turn, opening myself up to attract what it is that I want).  Know what I mean?  I don't take everything everyone says as solid gold... but I do try to keep an open mind and find something positive in everything that is said.  Someone may say something that's kindof half-way off base, but there still may be a kernal of truth in there.

You're totally right, though, about slipping back into old patterns.... and I appreciate you saying that, because it's definitely something I/you/we all need to stay aware of as we're trying to change something about ourselves.

Do I sound defensive??  I don't mean to be, lol, I promise.  It's that time of the month. [:@] 



LillyoftheVally -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 3:28:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
If I wasn't a guy, it'd make me cry.


[:D]

HTB, no hun honestly not at all defensive, and I am glad that you are feeling so positive about it all :) I just had to put all that out there.



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 3:30:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

~fast reply~

Wow, people in this thread are getting testy. Too bad since I thought, amazingly enough given the vague way it started and then sort of just wandered all over the map, that this thread had really shaped up nicely.

If I wasn't a guy, it'd make me cry.

*chuckles* Sorry, I just couldn't resist that.


lol, good one

I still think the thread turned out very nicely.  I'm not sure why people are getting snippy, but if you just ignore that part of things, it's still a pretty damn good thread. [;)]



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 3:49:18 PM)

quote:

HTB, no hun honestly not at all defensive, and I am glad that you are feeling so positive about it all :) I just had to put all that out there.


Thanks!!!  I do like hearing what you think.  [:)]



Collarher4ever -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 4:04:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

Do you really think holding someone accountable for their words is "angry?"  Or "an argument?"

On another thread, I said the most important thing for you to achieve was an ability to do what you said you were going to do.  You agreed with me.  The same principle is at work in this exchange.  Collarher4ever took a position based on "research."  I asked him to provide that research, and, instead of doing so, he put the work on me and called me defensive.  People who actually have justification for the statements they make have no need to engage in tactics like that.  They can simply provide the justification.  He made a claim he had no ability to back up.



Well this is exciting. So, in my not obeying you in getting this research done for you, I am not credible?

You really need to stop quoting material out of my book: How to be a Dominant 101: Easy Guide for Beginners

Now if you flip the page you will see after the progress questions and the easy to follow draw in the lines test, a page that states "This Book is Outdated"

Let's see I said that a typical female is 135 on the EQ scale and a typical male is 45 or a typical female is 3x more likely to understand her feelings and that of another compared to a male.

Your response is priceless: the generalisation doesn't apply to you and your female friends
Ok... that means that in your humble opinion that you are better at understanding your feelings than a female friend is better at understanding hers. How about this... go gather up your female friends and tell them this understanding of yours and then we'll wait for your female friends to come back and report that you've been dealt with.

Good luck with that.

J



LillyoftheVally -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 4:39:52 PM)

I remember once, during one of the many times I hve conducted research, the average age of the questioned group was 22, not one of the people questioned was 22, gotta love 'typicals'



Collarher4ever -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 5:00:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

I remember once, during one of the many times I hve conducted research, the average age of the questioned group was 22, not one of the people questioned was 22, gotta love 'typicals'


Yep, its a generalisation. Would it have gone over better if the word "average" was used?

Hey, is that an average sized penis you have there?
Yeah, well are those average sized breasts you have there?

And, we haven't even touched upon the average over inflated ego, yet.....



LillyoftheVally -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 5:03:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Collarher4ever

And, we haven't even touched upon the average over inflated ego, yet.....


Hehe I am sure that was meant as an insult but did make me laugh.

My point was that people aren't really averages they are people. Also in relation to the OP I do not believe that averages will work, that isnt what it needs, it is far too personal for that (sorry I am being a bit of a therapist)



interlocutor -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 5:35:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I'm not sure how we can communicate effectively.
Now sure we can either, because I see you've now backed off to this position.
quote:

As you can see I never implied that it was. I never claimed an absolute about any segment of the population. I simply stated how I felt about something and that I think I'm not the only man that feels the same.
When I was responding to this previous position.
quote:

From my observations I draw conclusions.
Unless you really didn't mean one of those conflicting statements.

quote:

I'm not sure how you distilled "prejudice' from:
I didn't "distill" "prejudice" I based it upon your "conclusion" stated originally in absolute terms of behavior for men. Backing off from that position now not withstanding.
quote:

It seems to me that you believe imagining how someone MIGHT be/think/feel based on common characteristics is somehow bad.
I'll let you answer that. Do you agree with "profiling"?

So you think that the statement: "From my observations I draw conclusions. " is a declaration that I think my observations apply universally and without exception to to all men or women? I could see how someone MIGHT think that if they had not read a single other thing I've written in this thread. However the two statements are not in the least bit contradictory as you claim.

I did say,
quote:


...Yes everyone is different, but in my experience most women feel differently than I do about certain things, and about those same things I find most men I know have similar feeling to me. Yes there are exceptions, but I have an open mind and readily accept those differences when they occur, but this does not mean I disregard all of the other experience that demonstrates common emotional responses that are characteristic to each gender respectively...

which you quoted me on before I made the statement about drawing conclusions. Now you are taking my statement about drawing conclusion completely out of context with my previous statement and claiming I'm backpedaling. This seems a little underhanded to me.

If by "profiling" you are referring to police profiling I do not think it is a valid method for law enforcement or terrorist investigation.

However back to the OPs question that I answered originally, I do believe that enough men have similar enough emotional reactions for the question to be asked
quote:

HarderToBreathe2:
What about during/after a breakup... do you really care at all? think about us? miss us? feel sadness or regrets? want us back?

And have useful answers. It seems that you do not.



RedMagic1 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 5:45:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2
It's okay, I don't really feel attacked here... that one comment just rubbed me the wrong way b/c I really feel that I've made some progress... and his comment seemed to completely discount anything positive whatsoever.  Or maybe I'm just being too sensitive.

Would it surprise you that I thought it was a good thing that you told me off?  Up until then, you had been agreeing with everybody (except for one guy who left a particularly nasty comment on your other thread), and I was thinking to myself, "Wow, she can't say no to anyone!"  So I'm glad you told me to back off.  It means you're thinking, not just agreeing.

I do believe this notion of seeing which men take responsibility for their words -- and which don't -- is something that could help you.  For example, if a man was asked to back up something he said, and, instead of doing so, he said he wrote the book on dominance, and then belittled others for being childish, that would redflag the hell out of me.  Not that anything like that would ever happen, of course.  I'm just making it up as a possibility, because I hear there are all kinds of guys on the internet.

Good luck, and please be careful.



HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/14/2009 6:02:09 PM)

quote:

Would it surprise you that I thought it was a good thing that you told me off? Up until then, you had been agreeing with everybody (except for one guy who left a particularly nasty comment on your other thread), and I was thinking to myself, "Wow, she can't say no to anyone!" So I'm glad you told me to back off. It means you're thinking, not just agreeing.


Lol, I'm not sure what to say to this....
First of all, I didn't realize that I was agreeing with everybody, but maybe you're right (and there I go again, lol).  I guess I've been finding things in what people have said with which I can agree, and making comments only on those points.  I'm not sure why this is, but as I go back and reread the whole thread I'll pay attention and see if I really was being overly agreeable. 

As far as you thinking I can't say no to anyone (I know you were saying this lightly, it's cool), you just haven't seen my other side yet. [;)]  People always think I'm so sweet, and I'm like really???  Trust me, you betray me or piss me off and I can spew forth some major venom, lol.  And I do stand up for what I believe, although I try to balance that with being open-minded to what other people believe as well.   




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