RE: Men and Emotions?

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HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/11/2009 10:22:18 PM)
Thanks Lilly, maybe you're right. Or maybe I just need to forgive myself for making what I feel was a horrible error, accept the consequences, and move on. As for him... I've tried to the best of my ability to apologize, explain, and let him know that I cared and that I wasn't trying to hurt him, and that I never wanted it to end despite using that as a coping mechanism. What more can I do? He knows all this. It's my loss, in a really big way, because he is a really cool guy. :(

HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/11/2009 10:24:31 PM)
And P.S., sometimes people just need to vent and express their feelings, so thanks to all for allowing me to do that here without making me feel TOO ridiculous (lol). I really do appreciate it, and hopefully I can return the favor when you guys need an ear.

SirLost -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/11/2009 10:28:08 PM)
Honestly, I feel emotions for the people (not only girlfriends, it includes men and other females) only who cared and really loved me. The most hurting break up I had was the one I had talked about before (which is here: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2745917/mpage_3/key_/tm.htm#2747701 ), even though it wasn't a sexual relationship, but we were so close with her that I had begun to perceive her as a mother whom I would want to have, there are no words to explain how bad I felt. I feel myself bad relating to how much she loved me and was caring. I am feeling myself guiltily shit for a romance relationship being a Dom candidate that lasted only for two days, because she was really loving me and had never done anything for deserving to be hurt. But I felt myself only relieved when I said an ex-girlfriend that I don't want to talk with her, because she wasn't showing any interest to my love (see: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2740324/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#2740516 ). She was treating me as if I were only a meat piece, she had never told me how she felt after when I sent her rosed mail (until I stated I wanted to leave) . Personally, I do feel. I used to feel much more than I should do, because it harmed me. But for only ones who had shared their souls with me.

thechellekitty -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/11/2009 10:30:40 PM)
the reason i suggested you needed therapy is because you said that you feel the need to hide your emotions and you played the "come here, no go away, no come back, etc" game, which both relate a sense of insecurity and not knowing yourself and what you want...therapy doesn't mean there's something "wrong" with you...it can just mean that you need someone to help you get to know yourself or help you get your thoughts in order...or just someone to vent to who won't judge you...someone else mentioned looking for a kink friendly therapist...if your issues are kink related then go for it...if not your options for a therapist are a lot broader...

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/11/2009 10:32:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2 Thanks Lilly, maybe you're right. Or maybe I just need to forgive myself for making what I feel was a horrible error, accept the consequences, and move on. As for him... I've tried to the best of my ability to apologize, explain, and let him know that I cared and that I wasn't trying to hurt him, and that I never wanted it to end despite using that as a coping mechanism. What more can I do? He knows all this. It's my loss, in a really big way, because he is a really cool guy. :( Sometimes we need to be told it isn't our fault, sometimes we need to be told to take responsibility. Both are equally hard to deal with and both sabotage relationships. I don't know you I can only go from what is presented here, but from reading it you are similar to me but opposite. I blame myself for everything, then give wonderful men the job of making me feel better, that is my self sabotage and something I am desperately trying to work on. It seems then that while I internalise, you externalise, you have done something that were it done to you would make you feel terrible, rather than accepting that and working on not doing it again, your initial emotional response to pass the emotions on to the entire male gender. Neither way is better than the other, both are spawned from pain and damage, and both need the ability to stand up and say I am going to fix this.

HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/11/2009 10:35:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thechellekitty the reason i suggested you needed therapy is because you said that you feel the need to hide your emotions and you played the "come here, no go away, no come back, etc" game, which both relate a sense of insecurity and not knowing yourself and what you want...therapy doesn't mean there's something "wrong" with you...it can just mean that you need someone to help you get to know yourself or help you get your thoughts in order...or just someone to vent to who won't judge you...someone else mentioned looking for a kink friendly therapist...if your issues are kink related then go for it...if not your options for a therapist are a lot broader... Okay, thank you for explaining. I guess I was a little touchy because several other people suggested the same thing in another thread I had started, and I was beginning to feel like I must be sounding completely ridiculous. quote: you said that you feel the need to hide your emotions and you played the "come here, no go away, no come back, etc" game, which both relate a sense of insecurity and not knowing yourself and what you want Yep, that's exactly what I did. I really do know myself and what I want, honestly I do. But the insecurities remain, and I guess I do need to quit avoiding them and start addressing them.

HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/11/2009 11:03:45 PM)
Just one more thing, by way of an explanation, or maybe b/c I need to vent a little more... The first guy I ever started talking to from CM seemed to be a really cool guy, and we talked about future plans after getting to know each other extensively... plans for meeting, and what we both wanted out of a relationship and out of life. 3 months after he just up and quit talking to me, I was informed by his live-in girlfriend (of whom I new nothing about) that he has a habit of cheating on her and treating her like shit. The second guy is someone I met in person and spent time with, and things were awesome until he lost his job and promptly decided he wasn't ready for a relationship. The next guy I got involved with (this was 2 years ago, and he was the last guy before this recent guy) was emotionally abusive and manipulative in every way possible, but only after being sweet and wonderful for 2 months, at which point I had already begun to care deeply for him. The whole thing with him lasted for around 6 months, and it was bad in every way. I did some pretty shitty things as well, but not UNTIL we had solid plans to meet one weekend and he bailed at the last minute without letting me know (because he was off trying to woo some other girl he already knew). But I hung in there, thinking it was somehow my fault, and eventually we did get together... and it was abuse times 10... and I can assure you that I did nothing wrong at that time to cause it. So if I'm a little gun-shy, perhaps this is why. I'm not playing the victim, in fact don't even feel like one... I'm just very frustrated that all the walls I've put up over the years, all the coping mechanisms I've learned to avoid hurt, have chased away the one guy who actually WAS a nice guy. And that's what feels so crappy, because while I do believe he deserves better than what he got from me, I also know that I'm working on this stuff and that I am better than my mistakes (esp unintentional ones that were never meant to harm). And I did make him happy, just by being myself, aside from those three moments that ruined everything.

HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/11/2009 11:13:28 PM)
quote: Sometimes we need to be told it isn't our fault, sometimes we need to be told to take responsibility. Both are equally hard to deal with and both sabotage relationships. I don't know you I can only go from what is presented here, but from reading it you are similar to me but opposite. I blame myself for everything, then give wonderful men the job of making me feel better, that is my self sabotage and something I am desperately trying to work on. It seems then that while I internalise, you externalise, you have done something that were it done to you would make you feel terrible, rather than accepting that and working on not doing it again, your initial emotional response to pass the emotions on to the entire male gender. Neither way is better than the other, both are spawned from pain and damage, and both need the ability to stand up and say I am going to fix this. Ever thought about being a therapist? You're brutally honest at times (maybe not so brutal), but very wise. :)

InvisibleBlack -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/11/2009 11:18:01 PM)
Let me tell you a story ... long ago and far away - not quite as long ago and far away as the darkness between the stars but it feels like that sometimes ... I met this girl and we fell in love. This was probably my freshman year in college and, you know what it's like the first time, we both fell hard. I mean, I loved her like the sky loves the sea. The kind of way you love when you've never really been hurt and don't know what it's like when things go bad. So we were together about a year and really serious - and out the blue she came over to my parent's house on Christmas Eve and broke up with me. I was devastated and probably not in a right frame of mind for months afterwards. I think the way I described it at the time was having this black hollow chasm inside of you where there's nothing but a pile of ice cubes and snow with a single candle on the top - and then a cold wind comes along and blows the candle out. But life goes on. You kind of rattle through the motions until things start to heal over and it feels like you're filling back in. So that summer, maybe six months later, we bumped into each other where I working and, sure enough, after about a month we were going out again and it was on again like a house on fire. The kind of deal where your pulse races whenever she's near. Where you can end each other's sentences when you're talking. So, I dunno, eight, nine months later, she broke up with me - right before my calculus final. The next day she called me up, in tears, saying she'd made a terrible mistake and could we go out again. So I said yes. About three months later she broke up with me again and I finally said "Look, we can't keep doing this anymore" and pretty much just flat out told her not to talk to me anymore and to just leave me alone. She tried to get back together a couple of times but I was pretty harsh and after a month or so she stopped. I haven't thought about this in ages. Of course I felt things for her. I loved her very dearly. I took her back and then I took her back again knowing she'd likely break up with me again. At the third time, my sticking point was, if I'd done it again, replaying the same thing again, I would have lost respect for me - I mean, in my mind at the time, how stupid could I possibly be? Most guys I know feel things deeply and intensely. Sometimes it takes them a while to admit it, and sometimes it takes them a while to be comfortable enough to allow themselves to. This is not to say that some guys won't make a move on, or play with, or dabble with a woman for whom they feel nothing - sex is sex and love is love, after all and some people feel no need to link the two in any way. There are also a subset of guys who hold to the philosophy of "all women are whores" (I've actually had someone say that to me verbatim) and so never form any sort of emotional connection but I suspect that entire line of thought is the result of either being hurt a lot or of truly deep-seated and terrible fear (actually the two aren't mutually exclusive). What you did, by getting close and then breaking away and then coming back and then getting close and then breaking away et al, wasn't fair. Once you lose trust, it never really comes back like it was before. And if it does come back and then it's broken again - at some point anyone says "enough is enough" and it's done. I'm not going to make accusations or cast aspersions or say you need therapy or anything along those lines, but think about this: is what you did him what you were afraid would happen to you? We often act out our fears and we also often take on the very attributes we despise in the people who've hurt us. A lot of people say "think about what you want out of a relationship". I suggest this - think about who you want to be, what kind of person you want to be and what kind of person you want to be in the relationship. Get that concept firmly in mind and then look for people who help make you feel like that person. There are a lot of assholes, losers and idiots in the world, but there are also a lot of good, caring and well-meaning people who try, who truly try, to do the right thing. In the long run I've found that the old adage "birds of a feather flock together" holds true. The good caring people tend to seek each other out. They feel uncomfortable around the abrasive users and self-seeking parasites and what have you and they avoid them. Everyone makes mistakes. The trick is to learn something from them and then move on to something better. (Man, I do just go on and on, don't I?) [Edited for typos]

HarderToBreathe2 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/11/2009 11:44:50 PM)
Wow, this was really just incredible, thank you SO much. You're an awesome writer. I just added you to my favorites and can't wait to read your entire profile. It never fails to amaze me how many highly intelligent people you run across on this site. As for your story... it's very sad indeed, but I completely get your point. (Why did she break up with you, btw? If you don't mind telling.) It goes a long way to see things from the other side. I hate that I did that to him, though, you know? It's sad. I'm definitely going to take your advice about deciding who I want to be, and I only hope that I find the courage to let my defenses down enough to be that person.

Prinsexx -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/12/2009 6:10:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BKSir Whoever was saying that men don't feel these things is full of shit. I think it takes a far stronger person to allow themselves to feel this way, to admit to it, and to show it, than it does to hide it all and act like rambo. I think men don't feel these things and so am the one who is probably full of shit..well I know I am full of shit on some things. It's just that is how I experience dominant men to be. Maybe it was just the dynamic. That they feel they cannot show emotions within the dynamic. And yes, you are right, now that I have thought about it more: submissive men and switch men allow the emotion to show when they are in submissive mode. I've only had two relationships with switches...way too complex for me...and it was like being in relationship with two people. One like an emotional brick wall and the other like a permeable soft transparent aura..... thanks for writing what you have it's made me think.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/12/2009 6:16:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prinsexx I think men don't feel these things and so am the one who is probably full of shit..well I know I am full of shit on some things. It's just that is how I experience dominant men to be. Maybe it was just the dynamic. That they feel they cannot show emotions within the dynamic. And yes, you are right, now that I have thought about it more: submissive men and switch men allow the emotion to show when they are in submissive mode. I've only had two relationships with switches...way too complex for me...and it was like being in relationship with two people. One like an emotional brick wall and the other like a permeable soft transparent aura..... thanks for writing what you have it's made me think. See I am not like you, I need emotional openness to be able to feel secure enough to submit. Without that, the second guessing causes an awful lot of emotional anguish for me. I actually do not find Dominants generally to be emotionally stunted, I do not think that it is a necessary trait. Sure there are moments when there is the illusion of emotionless action but that is an illusion and any amount of deep thought shows that an action doesn't mitigate underlying emotion indeed is is often borne from it. I struggle wit the idea of being in a relationship without any to be honest, why would I want to make someone who didn't care about me happy? Of course if you are talking about people in modes and compartments and all that then it may be different. I am talking about dominants as human beings.

YoursMistress -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/12/2009 6:43:59 AM)
Oh my. I don't think that I've ever been in a relationship where I was anywhere near open and vulnerable enough to show feelings. I am just through 2 years of on-and-off divorce, and about 4 months into sharing a home with my ex. (waiting for the stimulus package to hit my neighborhood crosses fingers). She must certainly think I'm heartless and uncaring at this point. I suppose that I have been out of the relationship, for all intents and purposes, for all of that time plus at least a few years before. While I believe she'd like for me to feel and express my sense of loss, it's pretty hard for me to open up and trust now. I hope that she's not jaded over this experience, as she deserves a real, warm and close partnership like the one she thought she was getting here. yours

poeticfreak -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/12/2009 7:35:43 AM)
it's just the way we were raised, i'm sure that if most of you think back on your childhood you can remember hearing the parental line "what are you crying for, come here i'll give you something to cry about"

leadership527 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/12/2009 7:36:32 AM)
Yes: Men feel emotions. They are just as important as yours to us. They can cut deeply or heal. They can lift us up and they can also cast us down. In other words, we're just like you in this regard. What is different about most men is both the relative priority they put on those feelings and how they express them outwardly. Men, in general, are told early on that we need to learn how to overcome/ignore our emotions for the sake of "keeping a level head" and "getting things done". Honestly, that's a useful ability, but as you are noticing, it does have it's downsides when applied to a situation which is fundamentally emotional. But don't make the mistake of thinking that just because you're not being shown the emotions, they don't exist. And, just like women, some guys are flat out lying, manipulative people who, in fact, never cared one iota about anyone around them. Honestly, this should be WAY easier to spot in the BDSM world than it is in the vanilla world. The fact that it's not is a totally different discussion.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/12/2009 7:40:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 Men, in general, are told early on that we need to learn how to overcome/ignore our emotions for the sake of "keeping a level head" and "getting things done". Honestly, that's a useful ability, but as you are noticing, it does have it's downsides when applied to a situation which is fundamentally emotional. But don't make the mistake of thinking that just because you're not being shown the emotions, they don't exist. Puts feminist hat on And this is so so so oppressive to men, being taught to hide emotions can be so very damaging to them. It is something that really should change. Problem is many men are between a rock and a hard place, with many women seeing strength in lack of visible emotion and yet the same women bitching that men don't prove that they care. This contradiction makes doing the right thing all the more difficult. I will resist the urge to bang on about wanting gender differentiation to be cast aside.

poeticfreak -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/12/2009 7:41:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HarderToBreathe2 Just one more thing, by way of an explanation, or maybe b/c I need to vent a little more... The first guy I ever started talking to from CM seemed to be a really cool guy, and we talked about future plans after getting to know each other extensively... plans for meeting, and what we both wanted out of a relationship and out of life. 3 months after he just up and quit talking to me, I was informed by his live-in girlfriend (of whom I new nothing about) that he has a habit of cheating on her and treating her like shit. The second guy is someone I met in person and spent time with, and things were awesome until he lost his job and promptly decided he wasn't ready for a relationship. The next guy I got involved with (this was 2 years ago, and he was the last guy before this recent guy) was emotionally abusive and manipulative in every way possible, but only after being sweet and wonderful for 2 months, at which point I had already begun to care deeply for him. The whole thing with him lasted for around 6 months, and it was bad in every way. I did some pretty shitty things as well, but not UNTIL we had solid plans to meet one weekend and he bailed at the last minute without letting me know (because he was off trying to woo some other girl he already knew). But I hung in there, thinking it was somehow my fault, and eventually we did get together... and it was abuse times 10... and I can assure you that I did nothing wrong at that time to cause it. So if I'm a little gun-shy, perhaps this is why. I'm not playing the victim, in fact don't even feel like one... I'm just very frustrated that all the walls I've put up over the years, all the coping mechanisms I've learned to avoid hurt, have chased away the one guy who actually WAS a nice guy. And that's what feels so crappy, because while I do believe he deserves better than what he got from me, I also know that I'm working on this stuff and that I am better than my mistakes (esp unintentional ones that were never meant to harm). And I did make him happy, just by being myself, aside from those three moments that ruined everything. first guy and third guy are shitheads, but second guy was actually a good guy, saw his ship sinking and threw you in a lifeboat

leadership527 -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/12/2009 7:48:40 AM)
chuckles Yes Lilly. The fundamental truth of men is that women shape us. All of the bitching and whining and moaning in this thread can pretty directly be traced right back to women. Just as men shaped women's roles... and oft-times extremely poorly... before women took their own reins with feminism, so women now shape men's roles... and they're doing a similarly crappy job of it. For each of our genders though, what could possibly be more important than mating? When you get down to it, that is the gig. Men build entire corporations to score chicks. Just think about that for a moment. Consider building a structure which spans the globe and incorporates hundreds of thousands of workers... all so that you can be successful which, of course, scores the babes. We buy expensive houses and cars... littering our nests with shiny things in the hopes of attracting a mate. Our lives, whether we know it or not, are intimately shaped at every moment by the need to be attractive to women. And sheez, the things you women find attractive.... shakes head. Sadly, women are no less base than men. It's just women shook off these bonds... at least to some extent... with feminism. Men are still entirely chained.

daintydimples -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/12/2009 8:05:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shannie It's weird, I've always had the opposite impression. It seems like women feel big giant feelings and express them very dramatically (when something ends), and then move on -- and men are the ones that harbor those feelings forever. Look at all the poetry about lost love, authored by men! I agree. I think the deeper a man feels, often the less able he is to express it and the longer it will take to get over it. Again, a generalization about males based on my experience. I would add that males tend to be more compartmentalized about their emotions, which can make them seem uncaring when in fact they are not.

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Men and Emotions? (8/12/2009 8:19:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leadership527 For each of our genders though, what could possibly be more important than mating? When you get down to it, that is the gig. Men build entire corporations to score chicks. Just think about that for a moment. Consider building a structure which spans the globe and incorporates hundreds of thousands of workers... all so that you can be successful which, of course, scores the babes. We buy expensive houses and cars... littering our nests with shiny things in the hopes of attracting a mate. Our lives, whether we know it or not, are intimately shaped at every moment by the need to be attractive to women. I agree, don't get me wrong now sex is great. But this idea that all men think with their cocks (and women don't think with their cunts) is perpetuated by both men and women. The last few days has bought this issue up a few times on the boards. If a bloke came on and said 'all women think about is shoes' there would be uprour, but us women are lucky we get to be sexist misandrists because you boys let us. Because though it is true, at a base level we are motivated by getting our leg over (men and women this) it is slightly more complex than that. quote: And sheez, the things you women find attractive.... shakes head. Sadly, women are no less base than men. It's just women shook off these bonds... at least to some extent... with feminism. Men are still entirely chained. I think feminism has given women a hell of a lot more power and has caused men to struggle a lot in finding a place, but then that is because feminism hasn't finished yet. I agree that women are no better or worse than men are. The problem is the desperate desire we have to see people in those terms, as defined by gender. That is where people struggle, men have to be ... and women have to be ... and we haven't got it right yet. The disparity between submission and feminism that some people seem to see shows that really well. I like my partners to be human beings, that is pretty much my main requirement of them, I don't care if they cry at westlife songs or watch wrestling or love to cook or read graphic novels. All I care about is that they are happy and that nothing I do makes them ashamed of being who they are. I kinda wish more people were like that.

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