RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE...THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"

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RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE...THAT TIRED OLD... - 8/20/2009 6:53:35 AM

MarcEsadrian

Posts: 852
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Thanks for the elucidation, Marc. I deliberately chose to go with Sense 1 of the OED rather than any of the other senses because those other senses render the term next to useless for current purposes. Sense 2 of the Oxford comfortably includes everyone who is an employee. However, since this refers to control by things as well as by people, anyone who can't do without a cigarette, a car - or even a roof, sleep and food - could be considered a slave, too. Sense 2 of the Webster's - which looks at first slightly stronger - doesn't, in the end, help much: nearly everyone on the planet is entirely dominated by the desire to stay alive, for instance.

Given all this, from what's been implied on this thread by some, therefore, all of us should be feeling the joy of being slaves every day of our lives.

I suppose that's where you and I differ. I don't find the alternate definitions render the term "next to useless" for the matter of personal subjugation at all. The presence of alternate entries under the term slavery illustrates a depth and volume of interpretations. A person entirely under the domination of some influence or person seems clear to me, as do the synonyms servant, lackey and drudge provided by Oxford. I do agree with you on the additional interpretations, however; one can see many lopsided, exploitative arrangements between humans in the civil world as a form of abstract slavery. Slavery has many faces, and to assert that slavery in its purest form is only "real" or "relevant" if it's sanctioned by law or social institution is pretty narrow. Again, the robust and multifaceted existence of human trafficking—found within borders of first-world and third-world countries in our current age—illustrates this fairly well. Illustrating further, there are those who choose to live as slaves to others, giving up their finances, possessions and decision making, and would most certainly assert they are slaves. Perhaps I've misread the context of your previous words on this thread. It's somewhat difficult to tell, so I'll simply ask the following: are you are basically telling these people that they are wrong; that they are not slaves?

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 441

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 6:59:39 AM

Venatrix

Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

As for comments by LadyH and Venatrix, I consider an interest in BDSM to be distributed across population. When I hear of a certain trend across a demographic, I wonder if some reasonable explanation exists. Intuitively, I do not see why submissive men would be inherently more cheap than other roles. Intuitively, I do see that they might be more cautious because of the reality that exists. If there are women who cannot grasp why submissive men might be cautious in this manner, it might help to browse profiles of dommes to see what submissive men see.

Sea, I can't speak for LadyHib, but my emphasis isn't so much on the fact that submissive men are cheap, as a rule, whereas vanilla men are not, as a rule. My focus is more on the overall bad behaviour of submissive men as opposed to those who are vanilla; counting every penny you spend on someone, regardless of the nature of the relationship is an unattractive attribute. I do realise that there are exceptions: delightful subs and obnoxious everyone else, but the opposite is a trend I've noticed since I started dating again; and I do understand why some men would want to be wary. Be as wary as you like and see where it gets you.

In all honesty, it no longer makes any difference to me, because I've taken myself off of the market. Between the guys who whip out their calculators during the date, the guys who tell me they can't see me naked because it destroys their sense of submission, the guys who know you well enough to get kinky with you, but don't know you well enough to make you happy by following a non-kinky request, and the guys who can't bear you to use words like "intoxicating," "scrummy," "yummy", or "meh," it seriously makes me wonder how committed submissive men are to finding a domina, because a lot of you are doing your absolute best to ruin your chances when a woman does show interest in you. Keep putting those stipulations on potential relationships and the best of British luck to you.

Several femdoms on several threads have pointed out what it takes to get our attention, and it isn't money. Yet the vast majority of available submissive men fail to take our advice. No wonder they can't find anyone; they either think they know better than we do what a dominant woman wants, or they're so focussed on their own desires they don't care. Meh.

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 442

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 7:05:06 AM

SmartStrongSub

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline

Thank you NoreenSwan. The fact is this debate started out as a discussion of whether paying monetary tribute to a dominant is appropriate and consistent with a genuine Owner/slave relationship. We all seem to agree that genrousity is good. We all seem to agree that being cheap is a poor quality in a person. We all seem to acknowledge that tribute to fake dommes is ill advised and that in the absence of a genuine relationship money is meaningless. The divergence of views seems to revolve around the different levels of slavery that people want or have experienced. My position, which I think is clear enough, is that the more one surrenders into slavery the more complete and genuine the experince. A slave paying tribute to his Owner is consistent with the concept of one person's ownership, possession and control of a another. Apparently others disagree but I am still unclear as to what some of their positions are because their posts are directed at people instead of issues. We will all be better served here if those posting would refrain from personal attacks and simply apply their talents to addressing these very interesting issues.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NoreenSwan

quote:

ORIGINAL: NoreenSwan

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: NoreenSwan

Well now, you should relax and not be so defensive about the subject of submission.

if you only play a subby in bed good for you. I'm sure SmartStrongSub can handle it and doesn't really care one way or the other.

Take a deep breath because he didn't jump to define you or the way you play as right or wrong. Have a glass of wine. It'll relax you and open you up and stuff like that.

Such a condescending little post, where do I begin. I asked someone to clarify their post. If you have a problem with that, please by all means block me.

Of course you would see it in a negative way, it's your way it seems often on here. No, I don't want to block you. I feel alright about you disagreeing with me and I am okay if you yell at me. It's not a big deal. I only concerned if I offended you and I'm sorry if this is how it is so. But I just want you to know you don't have to get defensive or feel threatened and start to come off as mad in replies.

I really think you just don't like his perspective on consensual slavery and D/s relationships and that's really why you are defensive and nit picking. He really does not come across as hostile, unlike red and yours comments which seemed out of context in the level of excitement the comments reached. I'm sorry you and him couldn't understand the context his argument was couched in but I think it's clear to everyone SmartStrongSub is a respecting, intelligent poster, here in good faith and he writes in a very non-confrontational way and does not get personal. That's a good skill. But really I think everyone knows yours opinions are yours and if you don't like the practice of slavery or full time D/s relationship well then fine, that still doesn't impact someone else's reality who believes differently. And so, their opinions on how things should be, is just that, their opinion and that should have no bearing on you or what you like to do. The world is big enough to handle different strokes in folks. Don't be so defensive and threatened because someone makes a good argument that you don't agree with. He can feel his way is best as you can feel your way is the best. It doesn't matter and doesn't affect the other if they can be open and secure in their own positions and other people's differences.

No need to get bitter because StrongSmartSub writes well, and represents a different kind of perspective on slavery that goes outside playing in the sheets. He does not appear to be a troll and he does not seem angry so you don't have to be so defensive and confrontational. Take a deep breath, you'll going to be okay. Allow yourself to not be threatened so easily by other people's feelings on D/s matters. If your power exchange stops in the sheets and someone takes it on a deeper level, learn to live with that. You don't want to come across as rigid and paranoid do you?

(in reply to NoreenSwan)

Post #: 443

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 7:09:25 AM

SmartStrongSub

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline

Starbuck, I am going to repeat what I posted to NoreenSwan here because I would very much like to have the benefit of your thoughts on the issues without suffering through the offensive personal attacks against those who disagre:

The fact is this debate started out as a discussion of whether paying monetary tribute to a dominant is appropriate and consistent with a genuine Owner/slave relationship. We all seem to agree that genrousity is good. We all seem to agree that being cheap is a poor quality in a person. We all seem to acknowledge that tribute to fake dommes is ill advised and that in the absence of a genuine relationship money is meaningless. The divergence of views seems to revolve around the different levels of slavery that people want or have experienced. My position, which I think is clear enough, is that the more one surrenders into slavery the more complete and genuine the experince. A slave paying tribute to his Owner is consistent with the concept of one person's ownership, possession and control of a another. Apparently others disagree but I am still unclear as to what some of their positions are because their posts are directed at people instead of issues. We will all be better served here if those posting would refrain from personal attacks and simply apply their talents to addressing these very interesting issues.

Starbucks I hope you will join us in these discussions on this level. Best, SSS

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

I am doing nothing but what you have done to others Noreen. If you do not believe me theyou can look back at the last three pages which have been reserved their for posterity. I have used your own tactics against you [again yoan check] and you have pronounced them trollish. Thereis a lesson to be learned there Noreen.

(in reply to Starbuck09)

Post #: 444

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 7:42:44 AM

SmartStrongSub

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline

Dear thishereboi, This debate started out as a discussion of whether paying monetary tribute to a dominant is appropriate and consistent with a genuine Owner/slave relationship. We all seem to agree that genrousity is good. We all seem to agree that being cheap is a poor quality in a person. We all seem to acknowledge that tribute to fake dommes is ill advised and that in the absence of a genuine relationship money is meaningless. The divergence of views seems to revolve around the different levels of slavery that people want or have experienced. My position, which I think is clear enough, is that the more one surrenders into slavery the more complete and genuine the experince. A slave paying tribute to his Owner is consistent with the concept of one person's ownership, possession and control of a another. Clearly, this is not the only level that people engage in bdsm slavery but the more one surrenders, the less it resembles play and the more it feels like genuine enslavement. I only advocate that people give themselves a chance to fel that joy.

(in reply to thishereboi)

Post #: 445

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 7:46:20 AM

SmartStrongSub

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline

Dear Seea,

This debate started out as a discussion of whether paying monetary tribute to a dominant is appropriate and consistent with a genuine Owner/slave relationship. We all seem to agree that genrousity is good. We all seem to agree that being cheap is a poor quality in a person. We all seem to acknowledge that tribute to fake dommes is ill advised and that in the absence of a genuine relationship money is meaningless. The divergence of views seems to revolve around the different levels of slavery that people want or have experienced. My position, which I think is clear enough, is that the more one surrenders into slavery the more complete and genuine the experince. A slave paying tribute to his Owner is consistent with the concept of one person's ownership, possession and control of a another. Clearly, this is not the only level that people engage in bdsm slavery but the more one surrenders, the less it resembles play and the more it feels like genuine enslavement. I only advocate that people give themselves a chance to feel that joy in as much fullness as possible.

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 446

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 8:12:26 AM

Starbuck09

Posts: 724
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline

A pleasure Strong sub.
Personally I think the problem here is not that entering into an agreement whereby you pay tribute to your dominant as you have both chosen to adhere as close to a slave/owner relationship as possible is in any way wrong. It's not because it is a concious choice that you have both made. The problem is where this dynamic begins. I presume [and so could be completely wrong] that in your own relationship there was a period of time where you got to know the person who would become your owner. During this time, I believe, that one should have as vanilla as possible courting so that you can see if you will be compatible partners [obviously for casual relationships that is not neccesary]. in this period paying tribute if demanded is something that I strongly abhor as it removes my right to make a choice about how I would like to behave. In this instance giving a gift [which I enjoy] is corrupted into acceding to a demand. As at this point there is no owner/slave dynamic such behaviour is, at least in my opinion, unacceptable.
Once you have entered a relationship if it is to be long term then [again I am presuming] that love is something that is a desire sooner or later. In a slave/owner relationship quality of love and depth of feeling should be judged the same as in any other relationship. Your tributes are part of your duties as a slave something you both agreed to and desired. However they are not a measure of your devotion. They are simply an indicator that you are your partner's slave. The equivalent in a vanilla relationship would be a girl judging her partner's love for her by the fact that he fulfills a traditional male role. That in my opinion is not enough. In my vanilla relationships if a girl was to tell her friends that she knew I loved her because I went to work I would feel cheap and dissapointed that it was not my behaviour towards her that illustrated my feelings. I feel that tributes are a part of the job description for a slave a bare minimum not an indicator of devotion.
I also think that possibly your own ideal of a slave/owner relationship would perhaps be better served by the term bondsman than by slave, at least historically Strong sub.

(in reply to SmartStrongSub)

Post #: 447

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 8:25:19 AM

SmartStrongSub

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline

Thank you for this post. It is perhaps true that the relationship between a master and a "bondsman" is historically closer to the negotiated relationships in which many participate, but that term doesn't have the same feel to it as "slave" does it?

(in reply to Starbuck09)

Post #: 448

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE...THAT TIRED OLD... - 8/20/2009 11:29:10 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

It's somewhat difficult to tell, so I'll simply ask the following: are you are basically telling these people that they are wrong; that they are not slaves?

No, not at all. I'm saying that the BDSM version of 'slave' is fundamentally different to the trafficked version. I'm not even saying that a BDSM slave is necessarly 'less a slave' then the trafficked version - quite the opposite, in one sense, because the former always enters into the M/s contract willingly because it'll be enjoyable (hopefully!)..

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to MarcEsadrian)

Post #: 449

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 11:37:26 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

". . . . and the guys who can't bear you to use words like "intoxicating," "scrummy," "yummy", or "meh," . . . .

Please say "intoxicating," "scrummy," "yummy", or "meh," as much as you want, with my blessing. That applies to everyone.

Meh!

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Venatrix)

Post #: 450

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 11:45:00 AM

SmartStrongSub

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub

Thank you for this post. It is perhaps true that the relationship between a master and a "bondsman" is historically closer to the negotiated relationships in which many participate, but that term doesn't have the same feel to it as "slave" does it?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Once you have entered a relationship if it is to be long term then
[again I am presuming] that love is something that is a desire sooner
or later. In a slave/owner relationship quality of love and depth of
feeling should be judged the same as in any other relationship. Your
tributes are part of your duties as a slave something you both agreed
to and desired. However they are not a measure of your devotion.
They are simply an indicator that you are your partner's slave. The
equivalent in a vanilla relationship would be a girl judging her
partner's love for her by the fact that he fulfills a traditional male
role. That in my opinion is not enough. In my vanilla relationships if
a girl was to tell her friends that she knew I loved her because I
went to work I would feel cheap and dissapointed that it was not my
behaviour towards her that illustrated my feelings. I feel that
tributes are a part of the job description for a slave a bare minimum
not an indicator of devotion.
I also think that possibly your own ideal of a slave/owner
relationship would perhaps be better served by the term bondsman than
by slave, at least historically Strong sub.

Starbucks, in addition to my question to you in post 448 to which I would again request the pleasure of your reply, I have another series of questions: Why can giving not arise from the slave's feelings of love and devotion as well as from the slave's obligations? And, if giving can arise from love and devotion, why can it not be a symbol, a physical representation, and even a measure of such love and devotion? Finally, is it not true that gifts and tributes offered from sincere affection and devotion are far more valuable than those proffered to fulfill an obligation?

(in reply to SmartStrongSub)

Post #: 451

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 11:52:55 AM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Please say "intoxicating," "scrummy," "yummy

Yeah, I have no issue with these words, which is a good thing given how often they are used to describe my body.

;-)

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 452

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 11:58:58 AM

Starbuck09

Posts: 724
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline

It doesn't have the same connotations as slave certainly strong sub. Giving is of course a sign [or can be] of love and affection I don't argue that at all. However it cannot be used as a yardstick to judge the depth of love. For instance buying someone a car does not mean that you love them more than buying them flowers. Having said that though as a slave one has to give tributes as one is a slave. Therefore the line is blurred between devotion and obligation. Presumably one does not fall in love straight away strong sub. A gift CAN be a symbol of love but that symbol is visible usually to the person recieving, a first edition of a favourite book e.t.c. and it still is not a measurement of love just a sign. Knowledge that your partner loves you should come from your interaction with one another, at least in my opinion.
As I said before though once you have chosen to enter a slave/owner relationship then tributes are completely acceptable it is the period before this where they are not [at least if demanded]. Gifts from sinere devotion are indeed FAR more valuable than those given as obligation. Which is precisely why again I do not have a problem with tributes in a relationship that both have chosen willingly but do have a problem at the beggining when such devotion is not present.

(in reply to SmartStrongSub)

Post #: 453

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE...THAT TIRED OLD... - 8/20/2009 12:11:20 PM

SmartStrongSub

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline

First, I must say, I admire the depth of thought, the degree of education, and clarity of articulation marcesadrian has brought to this conversation. It seems that when pressed with lucid thought and precise expression even those who have bantered back and forth for days now must concede that genuine bdsm slavery is a reality that one can fully experience in a sincere relationship. I hope we all find the courage to explore that wonderful and fearsome territory.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

It's somewhat difficult to tell, so I'll simply ask the following: are you are basically telling these people that they are wrong; that they are not slaves?

No, not at all. I'm saying that the BDSM version of 'slave' is fundamentally different to the trafficked version. I'm not even saying that a BDSM slave is necessarly 'less a slave' then the trafficked version - quite the opposite, in one sense, because the former always enters into the M/s contract willingly because it'll be enjoyable (hopefully!)..

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 454

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 12:18:02 PM

Jaded2005

Posts: 56
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

From merriam-webster.com

Solicit

1 a : to make petition to : entreat b : to approach with a request or plea <solicited Congress for funding

*Clips of Ms Kitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today*

Well, that one way of getting a second income but didn't you just solicit the people reading this thread? If enough clips are sold, then you can spend more money on her buying her new toys that will be filmed and then solicited (again) to those reading this thread.

Maybe it was the purple Kool Aid punch again??

_____________________________

The greatest delusion of the working class is that
they believe we live in a democracy.
The greatest fear of the ruling class is that some day
the working class will realize that this is not so.

(in reply to BoiJen)

Post #: 455

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 12:22:22 PM

SmartStrongSub

Posts: 23
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline

Thank you for this reply but I am still uncertain: Why does the extent of giving not act as a measure of devotion? I certainly bought my ex-wife more gifts (including a car) than I ever bought any of my girlfriends! I was simply more devoted to her well being.

As for the timing of such gifts, certainly as the depth of the relationship and the level of devotion grow so should the level of giving, but why would a Dominant Woman not use a hopeful slave's generousity as a test of his sincerity? Any Dominant Woman on CM will attest to the vast numbers of flakes and posers that consume their time and effort and then disappear. Given that experience, why is a token of sincerity not only a fair demand but also a wise one?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

It doesn't have the same connotations as slave certainly strong sub. Giving is of course a sign [or can be] of love and affection I don't argue that at all. However it cannot be used as a yardstick to judge the depth of love. For instance buying someone a car does not mean that you love them more than buying them flowers. Having said that though as a slave one has to give tributes as one is a slave. Therefore the line is blurred between devotion and obligation. Presumably one does not fall in love straight away strong sub. A gift CAN be a symbol of love but that symbol is visible usually to the person recieving, a first edition of a favourite book e.t.c. and it still is not a measurement of love just a sign. Knowledge that your partner loves you should come from your interaction with one another, at least in my opinion.
As I said before though once you have chosen to enter a slave/owner relationship then tributes are completely acceptable it is the period before this where they are not [at least if demanded]. Gifts from sinere devotion are indeed FAR more valuable than those given as obligation. Which is precisely why again I do not have a problem with tributes in a relationship that both have chosen willingly but do have a problem at the beggining when such devotion is not present.

(in reply to Starbuck09)

Post #: 456

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 12:28:59 PM

Starbuck09

Posts: 724
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline

It cannot act as a measure of devotion on it's own strong sub as to do so suggest that how you measure one's love is by the size and nature of what they give you. A token of sicerity is,I feel, unfair as I do not demand one in return and as I have said before it takes away my choice to make a gift the only option is to accede to a demand which, personally I feel, robs me of dignity. There are plenty of female flakes as well strong sub. I believe many women on here would be much happier [indeed many have said as much on this thread] if they dated in as vanilla a way as possible to esablish solid grounds for a relationship of any kind.

(in reply to SmartStrongSub)

Post #: 457

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 12:48:28 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Please say "intoxicating," "scrummy," "yummy

Yeah, I have no issue with these words, which is a good thing given how often they are used to describe my body.

;-)

Cheers,

Sea

You, my friend, are becoming very, very arrogant. My tutoring of you is almost complete!

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Post #: 458

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OL... - 8/20/2009 1:04:09 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

Goodness, I am kept from the computer for two days and this thread STILL sputters on!

Sea, when I said that I found wealthy men to be among the cheapest, I meant men of means in general, not just of the kinky persuasion. Many high-net-worth individuals come through our office, and we get to know a great deal about their relationships with money, and the perceived merit and status it gives them. Their heirs will be very happy.

I am not a person who goes through life with her hand out. I have closets full of lovely clothes, nice jewelry, an expensive doll hobby, and you know what? I paid for those things myself, or got them as gifts from family members. If I ask someone to get me a drink at a party, I hand him the money. Who do you think gets more interest from me, the one who takes the cash, or the one who spends his OWN $2? Good guess! And more than likely, I will cover the next round myself, because that's how I roll. All of you who are so appalled at the notion of someone IN A COMMITTED RELATIONSHIP spending money that he earned on his dominant, well... just keep in mind that the internet is a public space, and there are lots of women reading your words.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 459

RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE...THAT TIRED OLD... - 8/20/2009 1:12:19 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SmartStrongSub

First, I must say, I admire the depth of thought, the degree of education, and clarity of articulation marcesadrian has brought to this conversation. It seems that when pressed with lucid thought and precise expression even those who have bantered back and forth for days now must concede that genuine bdsm slavery is a reality that one can fully experience in a sincere relationship. I hope we all find the courage to explore that wonderful and fearsome territory.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

It's somewhat difficult to tell, so I'll simply ask the following: are you are basically telling these people that they are wrong; that they are not slaves?

No, not at all. I'm saying that the BDSM version of 'slave' is fundamentally different to the trafficked version. I'm not even saying that a BDSM slave is necessarly 'less a slave' then the trafficked version - quite the opposite, in one sense, because the former always enters into the M/s contract willingly because it'll be enjoyable (hopefully!)..

Yes, MarcEsadrian was helpful in demonstrating to me, once again, why two fundamentally different meanings of the word 'slavery' shouldn't be lumped together.

Also, I not only 'conceded' that genuine BDSM slavery existed, I showed how it would work for me, at least. From the way that you've put it all into a theory, it is not the way it would work for you. So long as you don't demand that your way 'is the only way and all dissenters are merely players', then you're quite welcome to any way you like of making BDSM slavery feel rational to yourself.

I'll repeat what I said to you to start with:

For me, BDSM slavery is a fundamentally different thing. The timidity that most needs to be overcome in order properly to conceive of 'true BDSM slavery' is that which makes some submissives believe that they have to have minds that are free of all contradictory impulses - the one impulse to master his world, to use his freedom to strive for what he enjoys; the other, to submit and feel dominated by another person. A submissive needs both sides, despite the fact that they feel contradictory and create a (sometimes powerful) tension in him.

But the answer isn't to try to eliminate that tension, even if that were possible. The answer is to embrace it. It boils down to this: I think that there is a 'full joy of slavery' to be experienced, if a sub is lucky enough - but the part of the sub that can experience that joy is the part that is free to do so, and uses his power to give up his power, in order to do so.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to SmartStrongSub)

Post #: 460

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE...THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"

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