RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (Full Version)

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NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 6:44:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam

They are all gifts, precious ones at that, and all tribute.

And you're right, anything I own that I value right now has been a precious gift from him. 

He takes pride in providing, I take joy in receiving ~~with gratitude.

TM


Pretty much how can you argue with what she said.

Nothing to add to that...



LaTigresse -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 6:45:10 PM)

Oh hell, if someone wants to tribute me a new pair of riding boots I will let them........mine just blew out for the last time.



NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 6:45:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1

Nothing unusual sounding to me, when a MAN really cares for and lives to serve you. [;)]
    M


This too. Totally true. It's his right to do what he wants with his money and apparently he likes giving.




NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 6:47:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: StoneFox

You're so right, LadySweetOrSour. And those guys...they are called "do-me" subs because all they can think about is how to get us to service THEIR needs and wants without offering anything of any sort in return. Guys like that basically want a ProDomme who does charity work! lol




Bumpity.



NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 6:48:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

It's simple.  The sub gives something to the Dom/me.  It could be their time, their tasks, their body, their money.  It's serving.


Serving it is. The body, the wallet, it's all serving.



PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 7:00:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: XYisInferior

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSamaAs for reconciling D/S with equality? I would think that everyone who participates in a consenting D/S relationship or tryst has crossed over this hurdle long ago. Seriously, this is the kindergarten level of D/S comprehension.


You've managed to articulate quite simply what bugs me about a lot of the "moral" arguments we see here.


Though I know as a female supremacist (if that's the right expression) you're opposed to it, I think most people who use this board do see D/s as a relationship of some kind of inequality that takes place within a broader social context of equality between men and women.  

Those moral arguments that bug you, though, were quite likely inspired, more than anything else, by these lines, in particular, in the OP:

....and the rest of you whiney, petulant, selfish, self absorbed limpdicks can sit up and take notice of how a 'real man' pays tribute to his Domme!

That's how it's done. 
 
It's quite easy to read into those lines the dictate that 'this is how things should be in D/s relationships'.  Firstly, the phrase "That's how it's done" is pretty emphatic and speaks for itself.  I agree with the consensus that seems to be growing:  nobody has a right to dictate 'how it's done' in other D/s partnerships.

Secondly, the word 'tribute' creates ill-feeling partly because for many people it's very close in meaning to 'gift'; most subs - most people - like to think that they enjoy giving; and many will therefore feel insulted at the implication that they're selfish, not 'true subs', not [if they're male] 'real men' - and so on.  There were insults in the OP, and like all insults, they implied moral opinions.

Despite all this, though, what stuck out for me in TM's post were the following lines:

"I love you.
 
Thank you, from the bottom of My heart."

However, lines like that will always stick out for me because (as I've come to realise and many will be bored of hearing), I'm a 'romantic' sort.  Those two starbursts of lines nearly eclipsed the words that followed, for me - but even I couldn't ignore them.  How could any male sub, really? 

TM, if you're reading: I wish you'd got to the 'bottom of your heart' with your thanks to your man, and left it at that.  I mean, seriously, what else is worth saying after someone has spoken from the bottom of his or her heart?







LaTigresse -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 7:01:58 PM)

45 pages just so you guys could bitch and whine about how the OP was worded? Seriously



PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 7:07:20 PM)

Come on, La T.  Think of an equivalent to "whiney, petulant, selfish, self absorbed limpdicks" applied to femdoms.  That was a tad more than just careless wording. 



NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 7:15:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

45 pages just so you guys could bitch and whine about how the OP was worded? Seriously


Good question.



NoreenSwan -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 7:16:48 PM)

Well now I personally don't get why you turn your cheek against people who take submission past kink and it's kind of wierd that you whine so much. But now isn't that part of your problem, princess peon. You are all about equality which makes me ask why not go to www.match.com. Is it because those women won't top your kink desires? Seriously, you should go on and check out that site because you want equal relationship where you get a twist of kink thrown in. You want to water anything down that goes further than kinky bedroom stuff because you yourself cant submit past kink. You protest the most and you want to redefine the structure of submission and dominance into just light kink stuff where she fulfills your fetishes and you don't serve or give anything of yourself.



undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 7:33:22 PM)

Elan,

I hear your call about more pages. Let's go for a 100! ;-)

Cheers,

Sea



XYisInferior -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 8:03:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Those moral arguments that bug you, though, were quite likely inspired, more than anything else, by these lines, in particular, in the OP:

....and the rest of you whiney, petulant, selfish, self absorbed limpdicks can sit up and take notice of how a 'real man' pays tribute to his Domme!

That's how it's done. 
 


This may annoy you, but I think TM was on to something with that line, Peon. [:D]



PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 8:04:02 PM)

Sorry, Noreen, there's so much that's so badly misconceived in your post that I can't see any point in responding to you. 



undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 8:10:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NoreenSwan
Well now I personally don't get why you turn your cheek against people who take submission past kink and it's kind of wierd that you whine so much. But now isn't that part of your problem, princess peon. You are all about equality which makes me ask why not go to www.match.com. Is it because those women won't top your kink desires? Seriously, you should go on and check out that site because you want equal relationship where you get a twist of kink thrown in. You want to water anything down that goes further than kinky bedroom stuff because you yourself cant submit past kink. You protest the most and you want to redefine the structure of submission and dominance into just light kink stuff where she fulfills your fetishes and you don't serve or give anything of yourself.


I was looking forward to original contributions from you aside from quoting posts you enjoyed. And here it is!

Here is what PforH says:

quote:

I think most people who use this board do see D/s as a relationship of some kind of inequality that takes place within a broader social context of equality between men and women.


I see submission and dominance as role preferences and not as social statuses. That is, person A who enjoys submission is not lesser than person B who enjoys dominance simply because they find a pyschosexual response in one versus the other. Person A might assume a subordinate role to person B if they mutually seek it, and if they do, I see it to be their choice to define how much equality or not they will have. I think this is what Peon is saying: people choose different levels of inequality and equality. I do not see that to be reason to call him Princess Peon, or to suggest that he leave this site.

It seems you are somehow threatened by his words. Are you able to put your finger on what about his words rubs you wrong?

Do you feel an interest in submission by default makes one lesser to another who has an interest in dominance?

I did not read him to say that other people cannot have a dynamic that goes beyond his. I read him to say that other people should not tell him that his dynamic should go as far as their dynamic. But perhaps I misread. Would you help me see how you arrived at your conclusion?

Lastly, would you help me see how you arrived at your conclusion that he does not serve or give of anything of himself?

You are welcome to respond yourself, or quote another post that conveys the sentiment.

Cheers,

Sea



undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 8:14:03 PM)

C'mon people! We need more posts! We have 55 more pages to go!

Cheers,

Sea



PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 8:15:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: XYisInferior




This may annoy you, but I think TM was on to something with that line, Peon. [:D]



Gawd.  I'm taken aback.  That was your response to my points to you?  This thread is beginning to look like a school playground.  It's so weird it's almost funny!



PeonForHer -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 8:21:40 PM)

Sea, seriously, thanks - but it's not worth the bother with Noreen, I'm afraid.  I don't think she's here to understand any differing opinion.  It's not her MO.  She's here to take the quotes she likes and shout them, repeatedly, till everyone she doesn't like shuts up and goes away.



DMFParadox -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 8:31:05 PM)

I'm getting used to the idea of tribute.

I was raised to seriously mistrust credit cards, gifts received without anything given back, and working to earn your keep.

I still mistrust credit cards. But you have to get lines of credit to, say, run a business; and that means having a credit history.

I still feel uncomfortable accepting gifts given. But I've had relationships and friendships totally destroyed by not accepting, and even by accepting but being annoying about paying it back.

I feel very uncomfortable indeed in asking for tribute. But it's been made painfully clear that not doing so, in some circumstances, is enough to damage the trust of a submissive beyond repairing. Things go downhill from there. Probably more in my case because I had a communications block about the entire topic when it was hinted at; I just shut down.

I'm not talking about quid pro quo. I'm talking about those situations when I had no quo for the quid, and knew it. Seriously, it tore me up until I realized I really had to change my thinking, or give up on the type of girl that hit all my other buttons; a sincere and yielding TPE woman.

I had to not only figure out how to get over it, but to ask and receive in such a way that I didn't make the girl feel guilty or unhappy about her offering. And bite my tongue when I wanted to 'buy back' my own self-imposed debt by getting her things in return. I mean, I do buy my women things, but now I do so in a way that doesn't seem like I'm practicing my own supplication in response to hers. It's been the hardest part of not equal that I've wrapped my head around as a practicing Master.

A gift well recieved makes the giver want to do it again. A demand that's met successfully and rewardingly by a yielding submissive or slave makes the one who yields her/himself want to yield more; and get lost in the experience of giving everything, of trusting that it will go to good use in service of the one they've chosen. Having the gift rejected and the yielding stymied does the opposite, and this crosses boundaries of money, sex, housework, and mental limitations.



undergroundsea -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 8:34:30 PM)

quote:

I see submission and dominance as role preferences and not as social statuses.


I love my posts so I am going to begin to quote myself quite liberally--at least until we hit a 100 pages ;-)

Cheers,

Sea



Venatrix -> RE: BOIZ, LEMME TELL YOU HOW IT'S DONE....THAT TIRED OLD TOPIC, "TRIBUTE"..... (9/3/2009 8:43:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

I'm not talking about quid pro quo. I'm talking about those situations when I had no quo for the quid . . .


But if one has many quid, one can usually get a pro.



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