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RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/15/2009 12:56:28 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Are you suggesting that other people define your fate?  What's the difference in that and a religious person suggesting that god defines our fate.


The difference is that "God" is by definition incomprehensible, implaccable, and utterly beyond our capacity to EVER control. "other people"/"the universe" is a comprehensible, manipulable system. So just because we have very little control over our fates now, doesn't mean there aren't things we can do about it.

There's a big difference between "responsibility" and "blame"/"praise" that I think you're missing.

quote:

If people want to give up, that is up to them.


This is blame language.

quote:

I could be poor and destitute had my great gran not fought to leave the poor house and believe she could achieve what she wanted.


That's great for her, but she didn't do that on her own. Opportunities were provided and didn't fall through. Not everyone who decides to fight gets to win.

quote:

If you haven't guessed I disagree but regardless - I don't believe that stops you trying.


Absolutely, it doesn't stop you from trying. But, the flipside of that is "pick your battles".

quote:

As he said himself, he didn't try.


No, he picked his battles. This is blame language again.

quote:

People bang on about personal responsibility - but in a case like this - now apparently self responsibility doesn't matter because 'we' don't get a choice? Our 'fate' is designed bu someone else?

You don't get it both ways.


Okay, here's the distinction between "responsibility" and "blame":

As I said, we have the POSSIBILITY to affect our fate. It doesn't mean it'll work; it's all a gamble, you know? We have a responsibility (parse that word - response-ability - ability to respond) to our situation. That doesn't mean our response will always be appropriate. Once the situation is over, our ability to respond ends, and we simply deal with the results.

Praising people when their actions have good results is problematic, because very little of their decisions or controllable attributes went into that result. Blaming people when their actions have bad results is problematic, because very little of their decisions or controllable attributes went into that result. Instead of blaming or praising people, we should try to help people when things go wrong. Especially when what's going wrong is people's confidence and abiilty to "stay in the fight". Shit, man, this is a harsh world. All we have is each other. We need all the support we can get.

What we have, instead, is a leftover vestige of the "Puritan Work Ethic" - there's Real Men and Pathetic Losers, and you can tell who's who by who wins. And the Pathetic Losers never even tried - you can tell because they lost. And then when they try to explain themselves out of the shame of their situation, you can always latch onto one or two of their words and twist it into a "why they Deserved To Lose" story.

Life's too short and too painful for that. All we have is each other. Mere survival should be praise-worthy enough, and failure to live up to all your dreams - for any reason - should be a reason for sympathy, not scorn.


(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/15/2009 1:14:30 PM   
cornflakegirl


Posts: 183
Joined: 7/1/2009
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		Thank you for posting that, Ialdabaoth. You are spot on.

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RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/15/2009 2:41:34 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I think you should do everything you possibly can to stay alive because when you die that's it. There is no heaven or any eternal life after. No such thing as reincarnation or any other life after life. It's over, just the same as a cow or a dog or cat.

As for Romeo and Juliet they wasted their lives killing themselves. It was a foolish thing to do. They should have just waited until they became adults and then they could do whatever they want. Alternatively, I believe it's possible to fall in love with more than one person so they could have met other people and become involved in other activities to meet and fall in love with other people or someone else. In a nutshell, I really think they overreacted killing themselves.


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

About killing yourself for Allah or capitalism or whatever, it's all bad. I don't necessarily expect much from capitalism or politics but I expect better from religion and God, if there is a God and I am certain there is not.



And what do you think about Romeo and Juliet? Or dying for your family or country?


(in reply to blacksword404)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/15/2009 2:52:27 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I think you should do everything you possibly can to stay alive because when you die that's it.



I've actually spent some minutes being clinically dead back in 1997 in London whilst suffering from severe pneumonia. I spent five or six minutes in this state..

And I can assure you that today, here and now, I am very much alive.


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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/15/2009 3:08:39 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I saw a neuroscientist, I believe it was on this station, who said we only know 1% of how the brain functions so we have a lot of research and work to do in the future.

Try and watch him read the following:

MYSTERIESOFTHEMIND

http://www.tvo.org/TVO/WebObjects/TVO.woa?video?ChildGenius2_Full_0_100064_YoungAndGifted


AND

Secret life of the Brain - Episode 1 Secret Life of the Brain Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10 :00 PM

http://www.tvo.org/TVO/WebObjects/TVO.woa?past?1013491248228000000


AND

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=15031152&ch=4226722&src=news


quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Well Brain,the reason I wanted you to explain is very simple. I have no sound on my computer at the moment, so watching videos is sort of pointless. Surely you can just explain how the existence of God is disproved by any scientific discipline. I maintain, that just as science cannot prove the existence of God, neither can it disprove his existence.


Get some cheap or used speakers

I would settle for an explanation of where consciousness comes from and where it goes where you sleep or are in a coma.


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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/15/2009 5:34:15 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		How Creationism (and Other Idiocies) Are Mainstreamed

One of the things that has enabled the mainstreaming of various idiocies, from altie woo, to creationism, to global warming denialism is mainstream corporate media's inability to accurately describe lunacy. For obvious reasons, 'family-friendly' newspapers and teevee can't call creationists, birthers, or deathers batshit lunatic or morons. This is where 'civility' (beyond the basic norms of decency when dealing with the mentally ill) and pretensions of 'balance' utterly fail.

Read Full Story at scienceblogs.com

http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2009/08/how_creationism_and_other_idio.php

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/15/2009 6:09:35 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I think you should do everything you possibly can to stay alive because when you die that's it.



I've actually spent some minutes being clinically dead back in 1997 in London whilst suffering from severe pneumonia. I spent five or six minutes in this state..

And I can assure you that today, here and now, I am very much alive.



That just doesn't make sense so it must be a lie. I know this because Judge Judy said so.....wait, I don't want Judge Judy. Never mind.

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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/15/2009 6:45:13 PM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Most people don't want to cop to the simple truths:

1. "Life" is a form of matter. As such, like stars, planets, and the elements themselves, life will occur whenever and wherever the conditions are right for it to form. We already know of over 300 extra-solar planets (mostly super jovians) which orbit stars that are easily observable. KEPLER is now in position and calibrated to begin it's three year long mission of counting Earth-like worlds in a particular patch of sky. With that information, we can estimate how many there might be in the local neighborhood. Again, science begins to solve yet another number in the Drake Equasion.* I do have faith, in statistical probability, that life exists throughout the universe with all the regularity of grass on a golf course.

2. The universe doesn't care about you, or all of us. We could all be blown away by an asteroid collision tomorrow, or  fried by a GRB, or we could decide to blow ourselves to ash. Or, maybe, we'll end up dying out due to a famine, or a disease. Or we could make a huge breakthrough in a hundred years, and our desendants will be living a life that makes Star Trek look trite. Who knows? But, the universe will happily give you the winning ticket to the lotto one day, and colon cancer the next.

3. What your life means, and what you personally believe in, is entirely your business. If you want to believe in a big "invisible friend" (like Harvey the rabbit) who pats you on the head now and then when you DON'T act like a peice of shit to other people, well then, that's just fine and dandy! There are far worse things to be insane about. But until you have proof otherwise, your belief in "Harvey" is on far more shakey ground than my belief in ET's.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/15/2009 6:49:32 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I like what you said and I agree with you.

(in reply to MarsBonfire)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/15/2009 6:57:57 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Most people don't want to cop to the simple truths:

1. "Life" is a form of matter. As such, like stars, planets, and the elements themselves, life will occur whenever and wherever the conditions are right for it to form. We already know of over 300 extra-solar planets (mostly super jovians) which orbit stars that are easily observable. KEPLER is now in position and calibrated to begin it's three year long mission of counting Earth-like worlds in a particular patch of sky. With that information, we can estimate how many there might be in the local neighborhood. Again, science begins to solve yet another number in the Drake Equasion.* I do have faith, in statistical probability, that life exists throughout the universe with all the regularity of grass on a golf course.

2. The universe doesn't care about you, or all of us. We could all be blown away by an asteroid collision tomorrow, or  fried by a GRB, or we could decide to blow ourselves to ash. Or, maybe, we'll end up dying out due to a famine, or a disease. Or we could make a huge breakthrough in a hundred years, and our desendants will be living a life that makes Star Trek look trite. Who knows? But, the universe will happily give you the winning ticket to the lotto one day, and colon cancer the next.

3. What your life means, and what you personally believe in, is entirely your business. If you want to believe in a big "invisible friend" (like Harvey the rabbit) who pats you on the head now and then when you DON'T act like a peice of shit to other people, well then, that's just fine and dandy! There are far worse things to be insane about. But until you have proof otherwise, your belief in "Harvey" is on far more shakey ground than my belief in ET's.


What does any of that have to do with my reply or was yours just a fr?

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(in reply to MarsBonfire)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/15/2009 7:26:26 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Stephen Hawking's Universe Watch online for free documentary-log.com
Stephen Hawking:

"Where do we come from? How did the universe begin? Why is the universe the way it is? How will it end?

"All my life, I have been fascinated by the big questions that face us, and have tried to find scientific answers to them. If, like me, you have looked at the stars, and tried to make sense of what you see, you too have started to wonder what makes the universe exist. The questions are clear, and deceptively simple. But the answers have always seemed well beyond our reach. Until now.

"The ideas which had grown over two thousand years of observation have had to be radically revised. In less than a hundred years, we have found a new way to think of ourselves. From sitting at the center of the universe, we now find ourselves orbiting an average-sized sun, which is just one of millions of stars in our own Milky Way galaxy. And our galaxy itself is just one of billions of galaxies, in a universe that is infinite and expanding. But this is far from the end of a long history of inquiry. Huge questions remain to be answered, before we can hope to have a complete picture of the universe we live in.

"I want you to share my excitement at the discoveries, past and present, which have revolutionized the way we think. From the Big Bang to black holes, from dark matter to a possible Big Crunch, our image of the universe today is full of strange sounding ideas, and remarkable truths. The story of how we arrived at this picture is the story of learning to understand what we see."

http://www.documentary-log.com/d125-stephen-hawkings-universe/

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/16/2009 3:53:58 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		God is a lie. God doesn’t exist in space on earth or anywhere except human imagination period……………………………….................................................................................................

Ancient toothed whale discovered on Santa Cruz County beach

A 1,000-pound slab of sandstone lifted off a Mid-County beach Wednesday may provide a better glimpse of what plied the seas 5 million years ago.

http://www.discoveryon.info/2009/08/ancient-toothed-whale-discovered.html


So 5 million years ago God wanted this whale to exist but then he wanted it to be extinct? And now 5 million years later he wants us humans to discover it? And this is part of the divine plan?

It doesn’t make any sense. Judge Judy said to the defendant, “You don’t make any sense and if it doesn’t make any sense it’s a lie.”



(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/16/2009 6:23:52 AM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

I don't like Hitler. I don't like bullies. And Sarah Palin is really annoying me lately with her death panel bullshit.


I saw a couple of German news persons who were watching the shouting at the town  meetings and the armed republican standing his ground against women and children.  One commented that history always repeats itself it we do not pay attention. The other pointed out that a guy named Hitler apparently sent his SA brown shirt thugs into the Weimar Republic  town meetings to disrupt them.  I never thought of the Germans as having such acute perceptions about history.

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RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/16/2009 10:15:20 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

God is a lie. God doesn’t exist in space on earth or anywhere except human imagination period……………………………….................................................................................................

Ancient toothed whale discovered on Santa Cruz County beach

A 1,000-pound slab of sandstone lifted off a Mid-County beach Wednesday may provide a better glimpse of what plied the seas 5 million years ago.

http://www.discoveryon.info/2009/08/ancient-toothed-whale-discovered.html


So 5 million years ago God wanted this whale to exist but then he wanted it to be extinct? And now 5 million years later he wants us humans to discover it? And this is part of the divine plan?

It doesn’t make any sense. Judge Judy said to the defendant, “You don’t make any sense and if it doesn’t make any sense it’s a lie.”





You have made it very clear that you think anyone who believes in god is basically insane and should not be taken seriously

But then you constintaly quote Judge Judy. Now as far as I know she is jewish which means she believes in god.

It doesn't make any sense that you would quote someone you consider an idiot and if it doesn't make sense, it's a lie.

Does this mean your a lie?

_____________________________

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(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/16/2009 11:20:36 AM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Being jewish and believing in God are not automaticaly synonmous. I was born Lutheran, but walked away from that religion when I realized that it (like most judeo christian belief systems) is a bunch of nonsense. A friend of mine, Harlan, was born jewish, but is now an athiest. I don't know about Judge Judy, but her beliefs are her own business. My problem with religious believers is when their irrational fantasies become the basis for their legislating morality.

Maybe you should think about this a little more, boi. After all, you ARE on a BDSM site. After they come for the GLBT folk, who do you REALLY think is going to be next in their hit parade?

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/16/2009 12:47:52 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Being jewish and believing in God are not automaticaly synonmous. I was born Lutheran, but walked away from that religion when I realized that it (like most judeo christian belief systems) is a bunch of nonsense. A friend of mine, Harlan, was born jewish, but is now an athiest. I don't know about Judge Judy, but her beliefs are her own business. My problem with religious believers is when their irrational fantasies become the basis for their legislating morality.

I agree that her beliefs are her own business. Brain has claimed over and over again that anyone who has any belief system is an idiot, Yet he continues to quote her. Just doesn't make a lot of sense. And as he is so fond of saying....if it doesn't make sense it must be a lie

Maybe you should think about this a little more, boi. After all, you ARE on a BDSM site. After they come for the GLBT folk, who do you REALLY think is going to be next in their hit parade?

Not that this has anything to do with the thread, but I will answer anyway.....after they come for the GLBT folk, I will be dead, so I guess it won't matter who they go after next. Unless of course there really is reincarnation, but that's another thread.



_____________________________

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(in reply to MarsBonfire)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/16/2009 1:37:33 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I never said anyone who believes in God is insane? I don't remember saying that. Maybe they are ignorant about science and need to learn more about science but I don't remember saying they are insane.

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/16/2009 1:41:56 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		Judy may have been born Jewish that doesn't mean she still believes in God now. And I don't think she would tell us, by the way she makes $10 million a year.

She probably doesn't want to get involved with religious and questions thinks it's a private matter. I doubt she goes to church every week.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/16/2009 2:27:06 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		That made more sense.  Thank you.
 
the.dark.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: THERE IS NO GOD IN SPACE BUT LIFE IS UBIQUITOUS - 8/16/2009 2:31:01 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

I never said anyone who believes in God is insane? I don't remember saying that. Maybe they are ignorant about science and need to learn more about science but I don't remember saying they are insane.


And stupid.  Or metabolically imbalanced.  You did not use the word 'insane' but it pretty much added up to people whom would not be of a clear or normal state of mind.

quote:

  ORIGINAL: Brain

Anyone who worships God has neurological problems or is on drugs or is stupid.


the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Profile   Post #: 60
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