quote:

ORIGINAL: cornflakegirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: petmonkey

What was missing for many of us may be appropriate "aftercare".  What would appropriate aftercare possibly be, even? i can't think of anything.  Obviously, responses like "I didn't really mean it.", "Huh? What are you talking about? I did no such thing.", and "Whatever." wouldn't do at all.

For me, aftercare was physical comfort and emotional reassurance from my Dominant. "You are a good girl, you did a good job, I am happy." Mostly repeating simple phrases like that. It was not denying what went on in the scene, but reassuring me that I could still exist as a decent person outside the scene. He didn't want me to walk away from the scene headspace still in it. It worked really well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cornflakegirl

How is emotional sadomasochism different from the verbal aspects of humiliation play?

In other words, when I think of verbal humiliation play, I think of my Dominant calling me a dirty slut, telling me I am good for nothing but fucking, just his sex toy, like, really degrading, humiliating, hurtful in any other context things to say. Is this emotional sadism on his part and emotional masochism on mine? Or does emotional sadomasochism mean something entirely different?

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ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

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ORIGINAL: petmonkey

Sadly, the Wipipedia link did not work for me and i very much wanted to read it. The page claimed there was no article.

Try:
http://www.londonfetishscene.com/wipi/index.php/Special:Search?search=emotional+sadism&go=Go
Maybe copy and paste?

quote:

ORIGINAL: petmonkey

quote:

ORIGINAL: cornflakegirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: petmonkey

What was missing for many of us may be appropriate "aftercare".  What would appropriate aftercare possibly be, even? i can't think of anything.  Obviously, responses like "I didn't really mean it.", "Huh? What are you talking about? I did no such thing.", and "Whatever." wouldn't do at all.

For me, aftercare was physical comfort and emotional reassurance from my Dominant. "You are a good girl, you did a good job, I am happy." Mostly repeating simple phrases like that. It was not denying what went on in the scene, but reassuring me that I could still exist as a decent person outside the scene. He didn't want me to walk away from the scene headspace still in it. It worked really well.

Cornflakegirl,

Was that aftercare for specifically emotional sado/maso scenes?  That was what i intended to ask about--not in general "what is appropriate aftercare?"  Sorry if i caused confusion.

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ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
BUT it's an effort to work out the difference between bad emotional pain and good emotional pain, because unlike the sensation of pain, there are fewer contextual differences. Emotional sadists work within the parameters of everyday life, not different play settings. It doesn't take any equipment to inflict emotional sadism.

And there I think is the issue. I think self discovery whether alone of walked through/forced through with another can be so so so painful but also liberating or rewarding.

I think it is the invisibility of emotional pain that is the most scary, I can see a bruise, I can say how I got it (normally) and I can watch it heal. A woman in the street could call me a whore, I can't see the pain, I may not even realise that she has caused any, but the wound may still be there, and its healing harder to chart.

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ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
Verbal humiliation is one form that emotionl sadism can take.
There are many more...
looking a certain way at a s type, changing plans, leaving, periods of abandonment, criticisng what are obviously trivial behaviours (like spelling in text messaging), ignoring.... there are no toy shops for emotional sadists so they tend to be non=conformist types.

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I have no compunctions about messing around inside Carol... in some cases deeply inside. But never for the express purpose of causing her to suffer.

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ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

heavily snipped.

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ORIGINAL: cornflakegirl

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I have no compunctions about messing around inside Carol... in some cases deeply inside. But never for the express purpose of causing her to suffer.

But what if the person you are fooling around with likes that? Then is it really causing her to suffer? In the same way that a good flogging is good pain, but if some man hits me out of the blue he's a fucking jerk and I will have no part of him, can't inflicting emotional pain be inflicted for the end-game pleasure of all involved?

I don't know, it's getting all twisty in my head. If the sadist really enjoys the pain, then is the sadist getting what s/he wants if the masochist is getting pleasure from the pain?

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but I still wouldn't stop him unless I thought it was going to a place he couldn't help me back from.

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ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

I can actually relate to what you are saying mustaddmilk (I love how changable your name is)

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In terms of physical pain I have only ever had a safeword once, and used one once, the emotional pain it caused me was unbearable especially as it was self imposed, I think like you are saying when a dominant takes you there you are trusting them with everything about yourself. I think to allow this though you have to be so so so careful about your choice of partner. I know I would never want to safe word again and for that reason I tend to be with people who I wouldn't have to. People perceptive enough to know when they cross the line in your quote.

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ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

If I am left bare you had better be more than capable of handling me in this barren state.

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ORIGINAL: cornflakegirl

I don't know, it's getting all twisty in my head. If the sadist really enjoys the pain, then is the sadist getting what s/he wants if the masochist is getting pleasure from the pain?

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

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ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

If I am left bare you had better be more than capable of handling me in this barren state.

Such a touching sentence.

I have been a sadist, with no need for the physical, for as long as I can remember. I was quite young when I remember my mother commenting on my ability to watch and find someones achilles heel and use it cruelly. I cannot think of a reason for it, other than it is easier to hurt passively this way. I never liked direct confrontation, but instead, to watch and wait, then a debilitating sneak attack. I've always been quite good at it, though never proud of it. Always tried to keep it hidden and contained. I was ashamed of it. Only using it on people that "earned" it by hurting someone I love.

When I discovered all of this, BDSM, I quickly recognised the potential I had to cause great harm. I recognised that I needed, that I MUST, take a huge step back. I needed to learn and understand. To do a lot of maturing. To gain discipline. I did that and avoided any romantic involvement of this sort.

Now I recognise my sadism for what it is and take responsibility for how I express it, and the consequences. I also know that my lack of deep emotional attachment to most people, combined with my personal morality, only makes it easier for me to justify my actions. "They deserved it!", is a common thought. Even though I recognise this facet of myself and take responsibility, does not mean it is always used in a way others will agree with.

In addition, there is the facet of plain speaking to complicate the whole thing. I often don't even understand why someone has gotten hurt and upset. After all, I only spoke the truth as I see it. I don't like to sugar coat or lie.

Then there is the emotional detachment and no real love of socializing, group gatherings, need of friends, etc.

Add all these qualities together and you have a recipe for difficult relationships.

I know that being a masochist to my sadism, when and if I have that sort of relationship again, will not be the risky and potentially damaging thing it would have been several years ago. Now I know myself so much better and by knowing, can recognise and discipline myself, keeping in mind the well being of the other people involved.

That being said, I am not perfect. I am sure I will always cause hurt that others think is just a bit over the line.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cornflakegirl

How is emotional sadomasochism different from the verbal aspects of humiliation play?

In other words, when I think of verbal humiliation play, I think of my Dominant calling me a dirty slut, telling me I am good for nothing but fucking, just his sex toy, like, really degrading, humiliating, hurtful in any other context things to say. Is this emotional sadism on his part and emotional masochism on mine? Or does emotional sadomasochism mean something entirely different?

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ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

I agree that one of the key goals of this sort of play (besides the sadomasochistic enjoyment both get out of it, which is the primary reason to do any sort of bdsm play, imo) can be exposure, soul nakedness. You can get there without emotional masochism too, in my experience, but it's rarer. I don't think having a goal like that is a requirement of this sort of play, just like having an orgasm is not a requirement of regular sex. But in both cases it adds a certain special something at the end!