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RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 3:06:23 PM

petmonkey

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

It's interesting to consider whether many of those saying they would run away from a situation where they are being made to be stripped bare aren't actually running away from the (in all honesty, probably frightening) process of being left so naked in the first place, rather than from the supposed intentions of the other individual.

And yet...with the right partner(s), who wouldn't want to be laid bare in every possible sense, naked to the very core with someone whose protection and safety you trust?

In the experience i mentioned, i didn't feel laid bare or stripped naked emotionally by the person who used humiliation to entice/control me. i felt more and more like i was wearing sandpaper longjohn's (raw nerves) under an heavy Anorak (emotional walls). i felt buried rather than opened up. For me to feel emotionally distant yet still scrambling for approval never forthcoming was the intended outcome in this situation. Jolly grand time for them, at best a crappy learning experience for me.
The thing i learned was You, God/me, neverenough interactions were not the way to my squashy, nude innards.

(It took me forever to get back to writing this, i'm sure the conversation has far surpassed. So it goes.)

_____________________________

Be excellent to each other.

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Post #: 61

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 3:22:05 PM

leadership527

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quote:

But what if the person you are fooling around with likes that? Then is it really causing her to suffer? In the same way that a good flogging is good pain, but if some man hits me out of the blue he's a fucking jerk and I will have no part of him, can't inflicting emotional pain be inflicted for the end-game pleasure of all involved?

It wouldn't matter in this case. In the case of physical sadism, if carol really grooved on being a physical masochist, I could handle that. But this emotional thing we're talking about would go against the very core of my being. As much as I pride myself on being broadly flexible, that's just not possile for me no matter how benefical it was to the recipient. Even if it would be good for Carol & I somehow, I couldn't do it.

Which is not to say that I judge others who do. I get who these things work and, as always, if it was truly working out well for the couple in question, then it gets two thumbs up from me.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to cornflakegirl)

Post #: 62

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 3:24:53 PM

lovingpet

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My partner and I go into this emotional side of s/m. I can't say we "do it" the same as what is being depicted here, but the goals are very similar as far as getting down to that core and then putting things back together the way he desires. I have thoughts, mostly of myself, that he does not approve of. I am told not to think this thing or that. Control over my thoughts???? You can't be serious, man!!!!!! He is dead serious. There are things that are simply off limits for me to think. There are new things I am forced to endure thinking about myself and it is TORTURE!!!!!!! You'd think these must be some of those horrific terms like slut or whatever. Yes and no. He impresses those words upon me too along with the evidence. He also brutally pushes such terms as beautiful, intelligent, etc on me. The bastard!!!!!!! How dare he! Realistically I really feel uncomfortable with others using those terms for me. I swear I may as well be choked to death, I get as many words out.

As to this issue of enjoying the pain of a masochist by his/her sadistic counterpart, I think it gets all upended because it is a complex dynamic. He and I love each other. I have certain needs. He has certain needs. When we meet them we both get to take pleasure in the response of the other. I love to see how much he enjoys hurting me. It is unmistakably written upon his face. The fact that it is my tears and whimpers that turn him on doesn't matter because I wanted to be crying in the first place. He also gets to watch me enjoy a state that he helped bring me to and that I need to remain functional and healthy. I made him smile when I told him in reviewing a session that had gotten very intense that I knew that there was love in each and every one of those cane strokes. They and the marks they left behind were expressions of his love to me. Those marks and my willingness to allow it to happen was my expression of love to him.

The same goes with the emotional. No matter how much his fooling around and tinkering inside my head might hurt, I know he is doing it with my best interest at heart and because I eat it up so. I know he wouldn't be bothered with it if he didn't care very deeply for me. I think that is the key to emotional sadism vs emotional abuse. It comes down to intent and the character of the people. I trust him to do this. I don't trust anyone else in that way. That is what he gets. He gets my love and trust for doing these things that so need to be done, but others can't or I won't allow them to do. It is an honor to him. And in that honor, he upholds me.

lovingpet

(in reply to petmonkey)

Post #: 63

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 3:36:08 PM

Prinsexx

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Ok...interjected in your box:

quote:

ORIGINAL: cornflakegirl

I'm not sure I have it right, really. I am just thinking aloud. When I play physically, I like a lot of the pain, and at some point I stop liking it but I don't safeword unless I am being actually damaged because I like that he is controlling the situation and I like that he is hurting me more than I actually want to be hurt, which means that really it's about what makes him happy, what gets him off, what is pleasing to him.
Yes I understand. But obviously you trust him enough to play with no safe words. This is because, for the most part, there is an, can be an objective measure of physical harm. With emotional pain there is absolutely no objectivity possible. It's subjective. Felt by the masochist...unseen by the sadust. Usually.

And I am thinking the same goes for emotional sadism. I like to be "hurt" to some extent in that it actually fuels my pleasure, and then at some point, it doesn't anymore, it's nastier than I like to hear and it crosses into real pain, but I still wouldn't stop him unless I thought it was going to a place he couldn't help me back from.
The problem for me was that I could not pre-think that place.

In both cases I am going farther than I would go alone, because what really connects me to the D/s dynamic more than pain is submission and control and as long as he is holding that control and not actually giving me an anxiety attack or an emotional scar that will leave me non-functioning or breaking my bones or something, I want to go where he takes me.
No it's not twisted. You have it. He cannot, mo-one, can control or re-think the results of emotional pain. I would go so far as to say that I did not know I had past a limit until I had actually passed it. By which time the damage may very well have been done. By whom though? Wherein lays the responsibility for such?

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(in reply to cornflakegirl)

Post #: 64

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 3:40:44 PM

TazDevil

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if CSI has show us anything it that we should be scared of the unemotional Sadists, throws or the ones who turn in to mass murders
eeeeewwwww.....

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 65

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 3:43:02 PM

lovingpet

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Sarcasm I hope there Taz....

lovingpet

(in reply to TazDevil)

Post #: 66

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 3:45:25 PM

LillyoftheVally

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Sarcasm I hope there Taz....

lovingpet

Me too

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Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 67

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 3:49:09 PM

Prinsexx

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TazDevil

if CSI has show us anything it that we should be scared of the unemotional Sadists, throws or the ones who turn in to mass murders
eeeeewwwww.....

I'm obsessed by watching CSI...if I could I seriously would have Grissomme (spelling?) chained to my bathroom sink....what between Collarme and CSI I really need to get a life.....
what's a throw by the way?
I can't read most of what I have been posting actually...that's what going back over emotional sadism does for me....
(opening up the deabate on the difference between sexual sadism and emotional sadism is a whole new can of worms.........)

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to TazDevil)

Post #: 68

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 3:54:46 PM

TazDevil

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Joined: 2/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Sarcasm I hope there Taz....

lovingpet

only a little bit it is a Dom emotions that say STOP you can go that far, you can't do that! the word for that is fear I believe (could be a fuw emotions all working together but fear a good name for it)

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 69

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 3:58:15 PM

lovingpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TazDevil

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

Sarcasm I hope there Taz....

lovingpet

only a little bit it is a Dom emotions that say STOP you can go that far, you can't do that! the word for that is fear I believe (could be a fuw emotions all working together but fear a good name for it)

Fear on the part of the dominant or the submissive? Or is it the fact that the submissive crosses from anticipation into full blown fear that is that marker the dominant to not proceed further? Just attempting to clarify.

lovingpet

(in reply to TazDevil)

Post #: 70

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 4:01:05 PM

leadership527

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I guess I wouldn't have thought of that as "emotional sadism" pet. As you know, I mess around in Carol's head pretty deeply also. My intent, however, is not to cause suffering and if that is an unavoidable consequence of what needs to get done, then I certainly don't derive any personal entertainment from it. In fact, that situation is extremely hurtful to me. Being the master when that means hurting Carol is the hardest thing I have done as a master -- by far. It's also about the only thing that has made me question, "Wow, is this really all worth it?"

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 8/16/2009 4:02:28 PM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 71

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 4:04:25 PM

TazDevil

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on the Dom's part (but you might have a point with there being fear on the sub's part I was not even thinking of that at the time)

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 72

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 4:06:36 PM

lovingpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I guess I wouldn't have thought of that as "emotional sadism" pet. As you know, I mess around in Carol's head pretty deeply also. My intent, however, is not to cause suffering and if that is an unavoidable consequence of what needs to get done, then I certainly don't derive any personal entertainment from it. In fact, that situation is extremely hurtful to me. Being the master when that means hurting Carol is the hardest thing I have done as a master -- by far. It's also about the only thing that has made me question, "Wow, is this really all worth it?"

My question in return would be, do you enjoy the positive outcome it brings to her life? Just as a parent doesn't necessarily enjoy (okay, maybe sometimes LOL) disciplining a child, it must be done and the positive outcome in the long run is well worth the suffering both parent and child endured. This can be even more rewarding, however, because, unlike that child, she has to trust you enough and allow you access to her mind and emotions to do this delicate work. He sees me happy and growing. That is what makes it worth it to him.

lovingpet

< Message edited by lovingpet -- 8/16/2009 4:07:50 PM >

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 73

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 4:08:53 PM

lovingpet

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Joined: 6/19/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TazDevil

on the Dom's part (but you might have a point with there being fear on the sub's part I was not even thinking of that at the time)

What would envoke the dominant's fear?

lovingpet

(in reply to TazDevil)

Post #: 74

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 4:18:19 PM

LaTigresse

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Another thing I thought of. This is one area where a safeword can get totally lost. Forgotten. When you start toying around inside a person's head they can forget themselves, let alone a word. This is where ethics come in. For the masochist to know they will not be damaged, to trust that the dominant person they are putting their mental well being in will not push them into a dark place they cannot come out of. That they, and their lives, will be enhanced rather than destroyed.

I think that perhaps it is more common than we imagine, just not acknowledged. Even perhaps, by those that do it, they may not be conciously aware of what they do. A denial even to self.

For me this is the key. Acknowledging it, accepting it is there, bringing it into the light, then dealing with it. Learning to manage and discipline oneself. Far better to do this than pretend it does not exist and allow it to seep into relationships, unchecked. To allow it to destroy and cause harm.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 8/16/2009 4:20:00 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Post #: 75

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 4:27:58 PM

leadership527

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*smiles* Of course I enjoy seeing Carol grow and flourish as a human. And so I suck it up and do what needs to get done. But that doesn't mean that I have to like it... and I very definitely do not.

But in order for this to be something I could recognize as sadism, I'd have to somehow or another be getting some sort of spark off of it and I don't. It's somewhere between distasteful and hideously painful through and through.

Honestly, I think I'm just to bright and upbeat to groove on any sort of sadism. More power to those who get off on it, but it's not me.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 76

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 4:32:00 PM

TazDevil

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

quote:

ORIGINAL: TazDevil

on the Dom's part (but you might have a point with there being fear on the sub's part I was not even thinking of that at the time)

What would envoke the dominant's fear?

lovingpet

I may have to get back to you on that part that was a deep question, for now I try and say it come down to am I (as the Dom) going to far doing too much, I don’t even know if you can call that fear, it just the best word I can use for it... anticipation (O M G! wordp got that word!!!)
anticipation is an emtion you know

_____________________________

TazDevil is learning disabled so he can not spell very well It is a mild learning disability that makes it hard to sound out words and understand math (luckily there is not much math to do on Collarme.com)

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 77

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 4:33:47 PM

lovingpet

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That's totally understandable and may even wind up being true for you. We enjoy the process as much as we do the end product and that is the difference. And it is only that... a difference.

But I am shocked! You don't think it is emotionally sadistic to call people names like beautiful, intelligent, etc????? *total sarcasm*

lovingpet

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 78

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 4:35:30 PM

lovingpet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TazDevil

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

quote:

ORIGINAL: TazDevil

on the Dom's part (but you might have a point with there being fear on the sub's part I was not even thinking of that at the time)

What would envoke the dominant's fear?

lovingpet

I may have to get back to you on that part that was a deep question, for now I try and say it come down to am I (as the Dom) going to far doing too much, I don’t even know if you can call that fear, it just the best word I can use for it... anticipation (O M G! wordp got that word!!!)
anticipation is an emtion you know

Sounds more like healthy caution to me. Couple that with a fear of losing hard won trust and, yes, I can see why a good dominant would want to stay well clear of the line of harm.

lovingpet

(in reply to TazDevil)

Post #: 79

RE: Being an emotional masochist: how does that work? - 8/16/2009 4:41:06 PM

cornflakegirl

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From: Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
But obviously you trust him enough to play with no safe words. This is because, for the most part, there is an, can be an objective measure of physical harm. With emotional pain there is absolutely no objectivity possible. It's subjective. Felt by the masochist...unseen by the sadust. Usually.

Noooooo!!! I play with a safeword. I haven't used it but I have it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CornflakeGirl
I still wouldn't stop him unless I thought it was going to a place he couldn't help me back from.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
The problem for me was that I could not pre-think that place.

Ahh, I getcha. I feel that in the moment, and so far it's worked out ok. I can see that it's risky, though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
By which time the damage may very well have been done. By whom though? Wherein lays the responsibility for such?

I think it's the responsibility of all players, assuming everyone followed agreed upon parameters. It's like anything else we do, the person consenting and the person doing both have some responsibility for any accidental fallout.

_____________________________

I am flawed, but I am cleaning up so well.

Away from the computer more often than not.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 80

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