UtopianRanger
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quote:
ORIGINAL: incognitoinmass
quote:
Well, I hope it works for you. Didn't work for Martin Nieomoeller.
He learned.
Yeah, this is Nazi Germany all over again. Please.
The last refuge of left wing drama queen: equate your political opponents with Nazis.
That's just lame.
While I concur with you that there is no comparison equivalent to the fascist state of 1933, I find it strangely odd that you are not the least bit concerned with negative/quasi police-state environment that has been fostered over the last six years.
Just for starters, let me point out to you a very troubling bill {Bill 742} that was both introduced and narrowly defeated before the Oregon legislature. { I am told this bill is going to be re-introduced with minor modifications}
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2003/Terrorism-Life-OR-SB742-27feb03.htm
A Bill so draconian, that it sought to punish those guilty of ''Illegal downloading of music'' with life imprisonment. If you read the small print... it could essentially turn someone guilty of ''blocking traffic'' or ''passing a bad check'' into a ''terrorist'' a punish them with 25 years in a ''Forest labor camp''
I ask you… can you defend this type of mentality?
Next... you mention that the Patriot act is a tool really no different than those used by the FBI to fight organized crime.
I beg to differ with that assessment.
There are various subsections of section 802 of Patriot Act II that turn minuscule, misdemeanor crimes into acts ''terrorism'' and ''crimes against the state'' which can be prosecuted as such, henceforth.
Section 102 states clearly that any information gathering, regardless of whether or not those activities are illegal, can be considered to be clandestine intelligence activities for a foreign power. This makes news gathering illegal.
Section 109 allows secret Star Chamber courts to issue contempt charges against any individual or corporation who refuses to incriminate themselves or others. These sections annihilate the last vestiges of the Fifth Amendment.
Section 106 states that broad general warrants by the secret FSIA court (a panel of secret judges set up in a star chamber system that convenes in an undisclosed location) granted under the first Patriot Act are not good enough. It states that government agents must be given immunity for carrying out searches with no prior court approval. This section throws out the entire Fourth Amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures.
Section 126 grants the government the right to mine the entire spectrum of public and private sector information from bank records to educational and medical records. This is the enacting law to allow ECHELON and the Total Information Awareness Network to totally break down any and all walls of privacy.
Section 128 allows the Federal government to place gag orders on Federal and State Grand Juries and to take over the proceedings. It also disallows individuals or organizations to even try to quash a Federal subpoena. So now defending yourself will be a terrorist action.
Section 129 destroys any remaining whistleblower protection for Federal agents.
section 202 allows corporations to keep secret their activities with toxic biological, chemical or radiological materials.
Section 312 gives immunity to law enforcement engaging in spying operations against the American people and would place substantial restrictions on court injunctions against Federal violations of civil rights across the board.
Section 322 removes Congress from the extradition process and allows officers of the Homeland Security complex to extradite American citizens anywhere they wish. It also allows Homeland Security to secretly take individuals out of foreign countries.
Section 403 expands the definition of weapons of mass destruction to include any activity that affects interstate or foreign commerce.
Section 501 a US citizen engaging in lawful activities can be grabbed off the street and thrown into a van never to be seen again. The Justice Department states that they can do this because the person “had inferred from conduct” that they were not a US citizen.
Just a sampling
You know as well as I do, that these new powers as granted under the new Patriot act, are in no way the same tools afforded to the FBI to fight organized crime. At the very least, what you have written is a huge and parroted exaggeration.
And, I am looking for article written by Bruce Cutler {The Attorney who won John Gotti two acquittals} the rips apart an argument that seeks to equivocate the Patriot Act to the investigative powers of the FBI for the purpose of organized crime - It's canned propaganda and a totally false argument.
Now... before you attempt to answer my this, please tell me why any governmental administration would seek to impugn its citizenry with such intrusive and draconian dictatorial powers, in the name of terrorism, while not first closing it's borders to stop the free-flow of potential terrorists?
And if you want to get back to organized crime.... the Salvadorian gang known as MS-13, has committed more crime and done far more to hurt this country both economically and terror wise than the Italians ever did, yet we are just letting them walk through our front door.
What gives?
Now let me throw out a few others things just for the hell of it....
In the last six years we have been encumbered by such intrusive acts as:
Video Surveillance on a mass scale
With over eight-thousand surveillance camera's in the city of London, and still hardly a dent in crime, haven't we learned a lesson - They don't work.
If they sat down and really thought about it….the overwhelming majority of American people wouldn’t want all this spying and video surveillance on their own populace.
And the one’s who do, well…. their ideological state has been perpetuated by the constant deluge of propaganda, coming from scary stories – i.e. Bin Laden tapes- Zawaheri tapes {drip drip drip}, Fox news and the fascist parrots {The Limbaugh’s, Hannity’s and Savage}.
False Propaganda, Censorship and Global News Management - See both Animal farm and 1984
Let me preface this part by reminding you about Iran Contra and the Church hearings – False propaganda on a massive scale.
http://pw1.netcom.com/~ncoic/cia_info.htm {See propaganda}
Just since 2003 the current GAO {again, admitted} spent over 1.6 billion on False propaganda, fake newscasts and buying-off reporters.
http://www.wdsu.com/helenthomas/4334085/detail.html
http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=28063
The other thing they do is implant phony news stories that are designed to scare people and keep them from speaking out.
For instance :The drum up a phony story on the national news that’s says something in the order of ‘’School teacher watched by Pentagon because she protested Halliburton’’ People see it, and then think twice the next time they want speak out or openly condemn the government.
And then we read what’s been happening with both Google and Yahoo in regards to China.
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/01/26/do2602.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/26/ixnewstop.html
And hell, just last week google censored and blocked {admittedly} the web site
Spacewars.com {On the leading edge for reporting on space based weapons, etc.}
This type of intrusion is just precursor to what’s coming in the future
http://www.spacewar.com/Google_Bans_Australian_Based_Military_Space_News_Website.html
Mandatory implementation of transponders and RFID tags in all new automobiles, new toll roads and controlled travel.
Yes... both the state of Texas an Oregon are in the process of trying to implement ''pilot'' programs where transponders and RFID tags are used to control you and track your movements.
If your insurance expirers, you to fast, or try and avoid any of the new taxes, you'll be ticketed via the remote transponder in your car.
And you think that letting strategic assets like our ''ports'' be managed by foreign governments is bad, how bout the roads and transportation corridors also being managed by such entities?
http://www.newswithviews.com/Spivey/phyllis3.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/11/AR2005121101368_pf.html
And heck... I'm not even going to get into the Cashless monetary system - Real ID card Act; I posted on that here on this site six months ago.
Why are all these intrusive controls needed, when we have no border security or immigration policy?
Isn't that akin purchasing the most expensive burglar alarm for your house that money can buy, and then leaving the front door to your house open all night?
- The Ranger
< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 3/3/2006 5:36:33 AM >
_____________________________
"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."
-General George S. Patton
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