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I was hoping for a bit of chat about odalisque slavery in Ottoman High culture...

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And another point relevant to earlier posts in this thread. Code d' Odalisque makes no claims to be a historically accurate recreation of odalisque slavery

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I came to this forum offering information on a system of erotic slavery...

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ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

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'What do you make of this?'

What I make of it is much the same that I make of any fetish. It is no different than someone whose only purpose in life is to worship feet. It doesn't matter who the feet belong to so long as the feet of someone get's worshipped. It takes away the personality of both the master and slave and reduces life to nothing more than body parts. The cock and the cunt. Sure they go well together, and for a lot of folks they are made for each other, but in all things human, they are the least of things. 50% of men get ED after the age of 50. The cock goes flaccid, limp. It no longer works for the purpose for which it was intended. What then? What else but for the slave to move to another cock that does work. A cock that is worthy of worship instead of the limp used-to-be. It objectifies the man who would be Master, making him nothing more than a boneless appendage. There is no need for thought, originality, personality, or thoughtful progress. How can such breed anything but stagnation, boredom, dissatisfaction that their whole being is less, viewed as less, worth less than a single piece of meat that has a 50/50 chance of being fairly useless later in life. For short term fantasy's, whatever floats your boat but for long term relationships with meaning and the stuff and substance of life .. I just don't see it. When the only thing that grows is your cock, that doesn't leave much room to grow in your humanity. I rather feel sorry for the man whose cock is the tool for a cockwhore to get off on. I don't see how you can ever have such a person loyal to you.. anymore than someone whose only purpose in life is to worship your feet and should something tragic happen to your feet, off they go to the next someone who will allow them to worship the new feet.

Like I said before, it's a fleshy flogger .. perfect for the 'do-me' .. just 'do-me' in a different way and Master A's cock can't 'do-me', Master B's cock is just as good.

What I read from the site is a lot of crowing about the cock, so I can't help but think that the only people it will attract are pricks. ::shrugs::

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ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

BULLSHIT ALERT
I love history and meaningful communication. I like roleplaying, even playing pirates and capturing slaves. It truly sounds like a great play party theme. I like a lot of things in this world and not everything has to be my brand or flavor of BDSM.

However, I don’t like some fake BS about the history, origins or meaning of the very real odalisque harem rank. It all sounds so romantic, Kegels and all, but someone needs to call Penn & Teller to round up these Pirates of the Caribbean’s in their “Guild of the Black Pearl” for their next TV show called BULLSHIT.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BULLSHIT
The OP says, “It revives the institution of “odalisque” - the pleasure slave - and draws upon the sensual slave traditions of the Orient for its inspiration.”

TRUTH
The word "odalisque" is French in form and originates from the Turkish odalık, meaning "chambermaid". It’s Turkish and has nothing to do with sensual slave traditions or the Orient . . . there is no “institution” or “tradition” of pleasure to “revive”.

Reference: 8,365 etymology links
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BULLSHIT
The OP says, “An odalisque is a female slave who is preserved from labour and toil in order to devote herself to sexual service. She is not a cook or cleaner, not a maid or houseslave.”

TRUTH
An odalisque isn’t used sexually, she is the harem’s chambermaid. A chambermaid is a “maid” that physically “labors” to “clean” bedrooms and bathrooms.

MORE TRUTH
In a harem, if you fuck your odalisque, she isn’t and odalisque anymore! She is a concubine. If she bears a child, she is promoted to wife. If she bears the first born son, she is promoted to kadin, highest female rank in the harem unless the Sultans mother is present.

Reference: wiki odalisque
wiki harem
Dictionary chambermaid
Historical Cheat Sheet
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Does Capitan Jack Sparrow really need better maid service???

The “Guild of the Black Pearl” under the Code d’ Odalisque say “The core mission of the Guild is to seek and find the true odalisques of the world and to bring them to their proper vocation.” . . . which as you all know by now is chambermaids!

Reference: The Guild of the Black Pearl
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My grandfather was born in Constantinople Armenia, 1888. I have met real slaves that survived the Turkish genocide of the Armenians. I have also met Turkish slaves. I firmly believe that words have and must retain meaning or we would not be able to communicate. You can argue all day long about how much black or white is in gray but you cannot call black white. Bullshit definitions, false history and bad mislabeling is wrong and it can be dangerous.

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ORIGINAL: Gentlemanjohn9

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ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
BULLSHIT ALERT . . .

In none of the Code d' Odalisque stuff that I've read have they ever made claims to be replicating historically accurate depictions of odaalique slavery. Somewhere on the website it explains this. It states quite plainly that Code d' Odalisque is based on *European imaginings* of Turkish odsalisque culture as per the Orientalist painters and travel writers. That is, the people who put the Code d' Odalisque together were admirers of Orientalist art rather than historical researchers. And I sort of like that. Sure, it is playing fast and loose with history, but it is a creative thing. (With respect, your Armenian background will tend to give you a grim view of all things Turkish... ) So we cannot judge it against history. It is, instead, a European fantasy. (Why is there so much hostility to fantasy here, by the way? Viva la imagination!)

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ORIGINAL: Gentlemanjohn9


Thanks. I actually share some of your concerns, but I do think you are probably expecting the odalisque Master/slave arrangement to provide the same things as a regular M/s arrangement, when in fact it offers something different. For a start, as I understand it the odalisque has only limited tenure in that role. The Master/slave relationship isn't permanent. A woman can only be an odalisque for a certain amount of time. That is of course fundamentally different to the usual M/s arrangement which is on-going. This is because it is recognized that the odalisque's role is somewhat limiting - although I think it looks like a much richer life than many people opn this thread imagine. In other places, like the yahoo groups, there seems to be a bit of female interest and women who like the idea. But not as a permanent arrangement. I recognize the noble ideals of the usual Master/slave relationship: loyalty, obedience, trust, sdelflessness etc. I don't think Code d' Odalisque is pitched at those same ideals. It is plainly hedonistic. I think it will only appeal to those who are comfortably hedonistic.

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Today there are couples throughout the world who have adopted Code d’ Ode as a way of life.

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ORIGINAL: Leonidas

Ok, seriously now John.

I provided some background on the terms you're using in your "code" early in the thread. I see nothing wrong with you wanting to keep a female slave or slaves in "harem girl" like fashion. Like I said early on, that's my preference too. I don't have any use for a pain-slut or a devotee of elaborate scene-play. I haven't read the website or manifesto that you keep quoting from and aluding to here, but it's fairly clear that you are enamoured of the romantic ideal of keeping indolent harem girls who are highly trained to worship your man-meat.

So, the question that I have for you is, how's that working out for you? Do you keep or have you kept any of these girl(s)? If so, for how long? I for one would be interested in hearing your take on the practicality of putting your "code" into practice. What were some of the issues? Are any of your "odalisques" around to comment on this from the slave's point of view?

I don't want to come off as concescending John, but I have to tell you that it's fairly common for folks with little experience to start out with elaborate fantasies, many of which have the same "ring" as yours (e.g. the single minded focus of the slave on cock-worship 24/7). It looks like you've been working on yours a while. What most folks find though is that fantasies like that don't hold up so well in day-to-day life. If you were a vastly wealthy man of somewhat questionable ethics, keeping indolent women around who basically did nothing all day but groom themselves and await the arival of your divine member might work out OK, especially if she was one of many, and wasn't expecting you to interact with her every day. If you aren't, well, you're going to find pretty quick that a one-dimentional cock worshiper is going to get boring pretty quick, and probably be more trouble and expense than she's worth.

It's fine to have fantasies. Everyone does. But there's a time to stop fantasizing and find out what works, and what doesn't. Unless I'm missing the mark completely, I'd say that time is long overdue for you.

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ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Your OP didn’t give an inkling of an indication that you were creating a false fantasy history. You stated the history, meanings and origins of odalisque in a clear and matter of fact manner. To see your OP from our perspective, imagine I start a thread pronouncing that I was “reviving” a “tradition” and men will fulfill their role according to “traditions of the Orient”. Then I explain that men get sex changes so that if you are a man, you will have a pussy between your legs instead of a cock. Sounds like bullshit don’t it?

You and the society may well have been much better received if you had invented a new name for your imaginative fantasy. It might have faired better than rewriting the meanings and history of an existing harem rank and then spend the rest of the thread back peddling. Speaking of back peddling, that brings me to “Orientalist art” vs “sensual slave traditions of the Orient”. . . that is two entirely different statements and to try and pass one off as meaning the other is beyond an leap of semantics in my realm.

I am glad you mention art because I host a wealth of information about the history of belly dance, slavery and harems. Including the related art. Odalisque with a capitol letter “O” refers to many of those paintings and it warms my heart to think of them. The most famous, Grande Odalisque was commissioned by Napoleon’s sister. See link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grande_Odalisque

-=Belly Dancer Slave, a real nonconsensual slave=-
-=Sub/Slave, Guppy/Shark, Role Mislabeling Fatal, Shame on You=-

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ORIGINAL: Gentlemanjohn9

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ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist
BULLSHIT ALERT . . .

In none of the Code d' Odalisque stuff that I've read have they ever made claims to be replicating historically accurate depictions of odaalique slavery. Somewhere on the website it explains this. It states quite plainly that Code d' Odalisque is based on *European imaginings* of Turkish odsalisque culture as per the Orientalist painters and travel writers. That is, the people who put the Code d' Odalisque together were admirers of Orientalist art rather than historical researchers. And I sort of like that. Sure, it is playing fast and loose with history, but it is a creative thing. (With respect, your Armenian background will tend to give you a grim view of all things Turkish... ) So we cannot judge it against history. It is, instead, a European fantasy. (Why is there so much hostility to fantasy here, by the way? Viva la imagination!)

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ORIGINAL: Gentlemanjohn9


I'm perfectly prepared to admit that a serious Master/slave relationship that extends into all fields of life beyond sex would be far too much for me to take on. You see then, my interest? I correspond with people who *play* Code d' Odalisque but I have no direct experience. There are several yahoo groups which are quite active on Code d' Ode. One group has 300 or so females in it. I've corresponded with some. So I know for a fact that there are females for whom the idea appeals. And some say they are in relationships based on or similar to Code d' Odalisque and they report it works for them. I doubt any of them are in it 24/7 though.

• Some of those are duplicates, that is one person with 3 identities. 
  
• Some of them are men (gasp, why would someone lie about a fantasy?!)
  
• Most of them have never done squat but this stuff will appeal to them due to the bodice loving romance novels they have read and fantasize about but would never try. 
  
• Some joined because they are list junkies
  
• Some like to say they do things to make themselves seem exotic and important, much the same as people who grab the collar to feel special.

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ORIGINAL: Gentlemanjohn9

And at this stage I'm not looking for a heavy full-time emotional slash spiritual type of thing. A refined sexuality would be fine.

So a part-time indulgence in an odalisque fantasy with a well-trained odalisque who enjoys my hospitality several days a week might work, I was thinking.

One group has 300 or so females in it. I've corresponded with some. So I know for a fact that there are females for whom the idea appeals.

That is, I'd consider keeping an odalisque "occluded" a few days a week. And within that, certainly I'd be looking to go with what works and learning from what doesn't.

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ORIGINAL: Gentlemanjohn9
To draw attention to these resources free on line. That's all.

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ORIGINAL: Gentlemanjohn9
Leaving aside the infantile I am disappointed with the calibre of discussion here. My complaint is that it is so conspicuously self-centred. Post after post offers not much more than "Its not for me." Of course I knew it would not be for everybody from the outset. But I diodn't actually come here for a show of hands. I was hoping for intelligent dispassionate discussion.

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This is an appeal for some more dispassionate discussion. Set aside your personal tastes for a second and consider Code d' Odalisque (and the historical institution of the odalisque) dispassionately as another possibility within the wide spectrum of M/s lifestyles. That's all.

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ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Once again, men have been doing this for years without the need to give it a fancy new made up term based loosely on european imagination.
Mistress
Call girl
Pay them for their time and they will worship what you want.
It does take money for the "upkeep" it takes to maintain the level of attractiveness you require. Plus, if you wish such an arrangement unless you look like Brad Pitt with a porn star cock between your legs, you better have the cash to make it an attractive proposition.

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This is an appeal for some more dispassionate discussion. Set aside your personal tastes for a second and consider Code d' Odalisque (and the historical institution of the odalisque) dispassionately as another possibility within the wide spectrum of M/s lifestyles. That's all.

See above. It isn't going to happen here. This is the wrong place for it in my experience. It's not about the code itself, it's about damned near anything.

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ORIGINAL: Leonidas

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ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Once again, men have been doing this for years without the need to give it a fancy new made up term based loosely on european imagination.
Mistress
Call girl
Pay them for their time and they will worship what you want.
It does take money for the "upkeep" it takes to maintain the level of attractiveness you require. Plus, if you wish such an arrangement unless you look like Brad Pitt with a porn star cock between your legs, you better have the cash to make it an attractive proposition.

Whoa, jaded much?  Yes, there are women who don't feel as though they can be full time slaves, but want the experience sometimes.  Yes, some of them prefer pure sexual domination to SM.  (edit: case in point "lustyann" a couple of posts up).  No, not all of them, or even most of them, require that you look like Brad Pitt.  Yes, some of them don't have pussies that would rival a Holstein, so they'd probably be more likely to want to charge if you were hung like a "porn star" than less. 

If Jim here is reasonably presentable, and sane, and stable, and honest in his desires and intentions, I'd be willing to bet he'll find a willing girl or two who are neither whores nor gold-diggers to play harem girl with him.  Something tells me that if Jim were a cross-dressing sissy boy who was looking for a little back-door strap-on action you'd probably be a little more supportive.  Something about a more "traditional" fantasy that gets your undergarments in a bind?

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ORIGINAL: sweetgirlserves

so if it provides a vanilla couple with some sexual excitement for a few hours... it's a good thing for them.