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RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 12:39:12 PM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		I'm pro-choice, but would personally never have one.

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RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 12:39:50 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
I would love to see that having an abortion would be considered a Serious SURGURY 

I would just like to see more people take responsibility for their actions, if that makes me Satan I would rather be the Devil than live my life without a moral compass.

Steel


Actually, depending on the stage of the fetus it IS a serious surgery. In my case it was and they got serious problems with my blood pressure at that time and I also developed flu during that operation (which I think was linked due to the fact that I did not really want to do it but also did not see another solution at that time). Therefore, if that is a concern then I can happily tell you for some women it IS a serious surgery!

Regarding "people taking more responsibility for their actions"...well, having done that decision does not mean you don't take responsibility for doing it. What pisses me off is when the slogan far too often is that it is treated like an easy way of birth control...I sold a hell of a lot on ebay on those days to be able to have it done and it was by far not easy. Nevertheless it DOES involve to take responsibility...not in the way which is conform with the "general view" of society but for many women it is not an easy decision to do it, e.g. just like eating a piece of cake.

And considering those weeks of hell in my life, I have no regrets about doing it and am certainly PRO choice!

One thing I certainly learned from that experience is, that you can't truly judge it unless you have been in that situation (which I apply now far more into other aspects of life as well). It is easy to say being against something or this person should have done this or that...but well, wait until you face the situation yourself...then life can become very different indeed.

And regarding

quote:

  I would love to see that an Abortion cost as much as a Pregnancy. Maybe then the 3 dollar box of condoms or $15.00 Monthly Pill or Shot would not look so bad.


I paid £680 or £860 to get it done as far as I remember...can't say that I would consider it as "the so great and cheap solution" either...

< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 8/21/2009 12:47:03 PM >

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 12:45:50 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
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quote:

I would love to see that having an abortion would be considered a Serious SURGURY and after two or three the only option being to remove the ability to have children all together as again it is OBVIOUS that you do not want them.
Steel...an abortion can be very serious in certain situations (if Mom is eclamptic and they have to abort to save her life, any anesthetic is serious). Plus...even in a routine abortion hemorrhaging can occur.

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RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 12:47:03 PM   
Lashra


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Status: offline 		Pro Choice, I always have been and I always will be.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 12:51:11 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
quote:

I am not saying you don’t hold the male responsible I am saying it is far more expensive to PROVE it is the male when you know for 100% certain you have the right Female.


Chuckles, so let's see you want abortions to cost JUST AS MUCH AS A PREGNANCY, you want the government to PAY for the cost of sterilizing a woman simply for having AND PAYING for abortions because you don't think its right for a woman to have, you want WOMEN to be completely responsible for this cost and yet you are whining because they would have to do a little work and pay a little cost to find out which guy to snip.  You do realize it takes a LOT less to snip a guy than to sterilize a woman?  You do realize the procedure is less evasive and less dangerous to snip a guy than to sterilize a woman?  Oh you also want the government responsible for all of the children carried to term and put up for adoption, you want the government responsible when a mother is forced to bear a child and she keeps it and can't afford it.  etc etc etc.  Boy, you sure the hell put a lot of cost on other people simply because you don't think the government should hold the MAN just as responsible as the woman. 

Steel, your arguments make no sense.  So let's see the woman decides to have an abortion and it doesn't matter who the father is as long as its just her coming in to have the abortion BUT the men get off scott free because the poor government wants to sterilize a woman because a Man couldn't keep his dick in his pants and the woman decided she didn't want to deal with is RIGHTLY AND CORRECTLY partly his responsibility?  But its the woman who needs to be sterilized?  Are you fucking kidding me lol. 

And yeah, an opposite argument especially HERE is plausible -- just because you don't like the IDEA of abortion so you want to run around sterilizing WOMEN ONLY -- oh and for the record, this would also mean a woman's medical records would then become PUBLIC knowledge and passed around for anyone to read or what were you considering a national abortion databank so names and SS# etc are looked up to see how many abortions a woman has had -- is this versus the # of children she has had btw?  You do realize DOCTORS are not even allowed to read medical records of a patient without a release yes?  So you are hereby advocating WOMEN's MEDICAL records be open for anyone to see JUST in case she needs to be sterilized for aborting a fetus oh wait -- aborting a fetus more times that STEEL likes. 

I mean they can easily do tests on the fetus to determinine DNA -- so why not require ALL MEN to have DNA tests and be required to keep his personal location information up to date so he can be found in a data base for anyone to look at to determine if he is the FATHER of a fetus or many fetus that have been aborted to see if HE needs to be sterilized.  That way cost would be down cause all you would have to do is a dna test on the fetus and track daddy down through the data base and they can then sterilize the MEN instead of the vessel.  Therefore, Men will be more careful in getting somoene pregnant, yes?  Otherwise, sterilize the bastard for being so irresponsible for participating in an action that CAUSED an abortion.  I mean why make it about the woman?  We could easily make it a law that any Man who has sex is consenting and responsible if an abortion happens, so therefore, if his having sex results in an unwanted pregnancy by a certain amount of woman, we can sterilize him for his irresponsibility.  BTW there would be no need for women to have a DNA database because we are going to put the responsibility and GIVE MEN the right to choose to conceive a fetus or not.  And if they conceive with either one or more woman who would terminate an unwanted pregnancy a couple times rather than carry to term as you think is the correct way -- he will be sterilized.  BTW this would cost a lot less than sterilizing a woman as you are proposing or even paying for the pregnancy costs and the state paying for the unwanted children. 

grins, making Men responsible is easy enough Steel, of course its not something Men would find okay but let's just disregard a woman's right to choose as well as her privacy.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 8/21/2009 12:57:45 PM >

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RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 12:56:26 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I am pro choice and pro responsibility.  I tend to think most people on the site would agree with the responsibility part.  The teenage population, probably not so much.


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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 1:00:24 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
I would love to see that an Abortion cost as much as a Pregnancy......

I would love to see that having an abortion would be considered a Serious SURGURY and after two or three the only option being to remove the ability to have children all together as again it is OBVIOUS that you do not want them.......

I would love to see people take responsibility for their actions and stop seeing the act of pregnancy as a non-issue......

I would love to see how fast opinions would change if men were the ones who got pregnant.............luci

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Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 1:00:43 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		From a male point of view....my stance is with the pro- choice groups. Though my personal beliefs say that all life is sacred yet on this subject, my POV doesn't carry much weight because I firmly believe it is solely a woman's choice to decide to carry a fetus to term or to abort. Only a pregnant woman is able to make that choice based on what she deeply feels is right for her. 

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RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 1:00:53 PM   
fadedshadow


Posts: 751
Joined: 4/27/2009
From: a place
Status: offline 		it doesn't matter to me what other people do. it's none of my business

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RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 1:04:35 PM   
lockemann


Posts: 23
Joined: 7/14/2009
Status: offline 		Aren't teens hormonally unable to be responsible?  

Really though, I am glad everyone has been so polite in discussing such a touchy subject!  So far the overwhelming majority seem to be pro-choice rather than for or against the issue itself.

Steel has made some great points, and so has Lillyofthevally and barelynangel...everyone has been quite well spoken actually!

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Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 1:06:06 PM   
slaveluci


Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline 		I am most definitely pro-choice and also pro-responsibility on EVERYONE'S part.

I have never wanted children and I thank my lucky stars I never got pregnant because I wouldn't want to have to make that choice. I don't want a child but I wouldn't look forward to the idea of having an abortion either. I don't think any woman does. This ridiculous notion that women are just out here getting pregnant over and over and using abortions as birth control is ludicrous. Does it EVER happen? Sure. Is it some epidemic we must squelch? Not hardly. It's like the myth of the welfare queens. Sounds awful but isn't really occurring as much as abortion's opponents would have us believe.

The bottom line is both parties need to be responsible enough not to get pregnant if a child is not wanted. The other part of that bottom line is that...until biology changes....the female will be the one carrying that child and ultimately gets to decide what she'll do. Yes, women are irresponsible also but to make out like they're just out fucking like minks, getting knocked up and skipping down to the clinic to have it sucked out in a couple weeks is nonsense. And even more so to think they do that repeatedly.........luci

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RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 1:06:10 PM   
Eigenaar


Posts: 352
Joined: 5/3/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockemann

If you happen to be anti-abortion, what are your views on birth control methods?


Stating this you judge anti-abortionists, meant or not. Why would they give their views on birth control methods? I never understood why people should even be proud to be pro-choice with this being the choice of the potential mother alone. What argument would justify being pro-choice?

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 1:12:53 PM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I would love to see people take responsibility for their actions and stop seeing the act of pregnancy as a non-issue. It is a HUGE issue, I won't go back and forth on when a fetus is an life or what kind of life that fetus would have should it become a full term baby or if it is better to abort a fetus known to have serious issues and birth defects knowing that you are not in a position to care for a special needs child. What I will discuss is that the effect of unprotected sex can and often is pregnancy, the effect of pregnancy can be and offten is a HUMAN CHILD. If you did not want that child then there are simple precautions that can and should be made, most free clinics will give you free birth control. If you are alergic to Latex you can get non latex condoms and if you are alregic to those (Like Myself) you start learning to accpet the repercussions of your actions.



For the most part I agree though at the same time, I don't believe that the majority of young prenant woman do use a clinic as a secondary source for birth control. The issue which I have is geared towards the males who stupidly ignore other options of birth control based upon the fact that it's his sperm that is needed to fertilize the egg. Seems to me the only method of birth control which works 100% of the time is abstinence until the people involved are actually ready to raise offspring. Yet we know that a young male raging with hormones usually ignore the concept of abstinence from sexual intercourse.

Yes many people do have latex allergies and some are more severe, there are alternate methods a male can use as a replacement to latex condoms. Far too often I see the males deliberately turning their back on their responsibility after he gets a girl pregnant. those are the ones who need to learn there are just as responsible as the woman.


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RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 1:22:04 PM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

Yes many people do have latex allergies and some are more severe, there are alternate methods a male can use as a replacement to latex condoms. Far too often I see the males deliberately turning their back on their responsibility after he gets a girl pregnant. those are the ones who need to learn there are just as responsible as the woman.
off topic here: The price of regular condoms is ridiculous, bet the cost of the non-latex type is even worse. They need to be made available, free of charge, to these kids locally, not just at Planned Parenthood or the County Health Dept.

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RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 1:31:59 PM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline 		If you don't want an abortion don't get one.

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RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 1:54:02 PM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
Barelynangel,
Lets put the chips on the table because you are so far in your own fantasy world as to what I want I have to ask if you are able to actually comprehend the written world without putting your own fantasy based spin on it.

I would like Abortions to cost as much as a Pregnancy. Maybe then people would not be having them as a form of birth control. So that people understand my own mother has had 4 abortions and YES, I stand by everything I said before even knowing it would apply to my own Mother.

I don't want the government to foot the bill IF Abortions cost the same amount as a Pregnancy re read my post I said for those that don’t feel that way I felt okay make it free but make it government regulated. You need to learn more about the Medical system, even if the Government pays for something you Medical records do not become Public Knowledge so that remark is so far off base it’s on another planet.

I believe ADAMANTLY that both genders need to be responsible but you continue to miss the point over and over again. You KNOW the woman is the Parent, you do not know who the Father is. And Little cost my ass, A Paternity DNA test that will stand up in a court of law will cost you $300 to $500 and insurance usually does not cover it. In the event that you have a girl who does not know who the father is and there are 6 possible guys (No this is not an exaggeration the average number of possible fathers when a mother does not know is 3 to 9 and that is based on welfare stats from women who are asked to claim the possible father for child support when it comes to assistance) And even then after testing all 6 guys you still might not know who the father is. So what was the point in wasting all that time and expense just to get the Father when you know for CERTAIN who the mother is.

Also it should be known that I am suggesting that during the surgery of the abortion for the final time is when the removal of the ability to have children should be done as the Risk is already there it is not compounded by doing the procedure at the same time.

I think it’s funny that everyone wants to talk about the rights being taken away from the guy and not one person has pointed out that the Father has NO SAY WHAT-SO-EVER. He does not get a "Choice" AT ALL. No one seems to think that is unfair? In Fact he can end up being responsible for Child support for 18 YEARS, shouldn’t he get to decide if she keeps the kid? If you say NO then Yes the ENTIRE RESPONSIBILITY falls onto the woman. If you believe that the choice should be the womans and the womans ONLY then how can you hold the nam responsible for anything if you won’t give him a say in how it is handled?

Gender Bias? This is the thing, everyone wants equality but no one is willing to give it.

As far as I am concerned you do not have to like my opinion, it doesn’t change my opinion. Being Responsible means you don’t keep doing something over and over again and getting bailed out. If you can’t get on some kind of regulated birth control and you keep getting pregnant, fine, but you should be held accountable for it.

Guess what ladies you can always tell the Sperm Donor "NO, Not without a Condom" and if he doesn’t listen then that is RAPE report it and put his ass in Jail and as I already said that would not be counted toward your 2 or 3 and the government would pay for it under the idea that they were not as expensive as a pregnancy.

I am offering SOLUTIONS to what I think we can all agree is a serious situation, not trying to get constitutional or try to determine what point is a Zygote a Human Being, I just want people to take responsibility for something that is VERY VERY VERY EASY to Prevent.

Steel

< Message edited by SteelofUtah -- 8/21/2009 2:14:55 PM >

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RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 1:58:27 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		Not everything should be tolerated, however, and it's our rights individually to choose not to tolerate something or not like it, if it's morally or ethically or just personally repugnant.
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockemann

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

pro-tolerance


I think we would all get along if we could somehow make this our national slogan!


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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 2:16:24 PM   
Toppingfrmbottom


Posts: 6528
Joined: 6/7/2009
Status: offline 		I don't think that reporting rape should be mandatory, from the one being raped, it's a very personal choice, and I do know that sometimes the cops blame you the rape victim. There was a dateline show on it, the woman reported the rape the minute the rapist was gone, and then the police started questioning her and threatening her and bullying her, said she'd go to jail, loose her kids, ect ect. They didn't believe her so they didn't investigate and why didn't they believe her? Because some town smuck came to them and said he knew she was having an affair, and this rape story was to cover up the fact she had an affair* which is not true she did not have an affair*

it took about 8 months for another officer to get involved who did believe her, and it took about 14 years for the case to finally be solved, and it was only solved because her attacker attacked an office co worker, and the officer had a hunch based on remembering the last name 14 years ago was someone the family knew.

So for  a lot of this  time she had to live with people snickering about her and whispering about her and the rumors that flew about the town about her, and then when the announcement came through about who it was, the rumors and nasty gossip started all over again, because the community couldn't believe "such a nice and upstanding guy who was every bodies buddy would do such a thing"

And then of course if the rapist threatens to kill you if you tell the police, then are you willing to be personally responcible for the womans death if her rapist does make good on his threat to kill her for reporting it to the police?


quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah


With Rape there would be a requirement that the rape was reported, maybe then more rapist fuck wads would end up in jail where they beong and learning about rape first hand from a large man named Tiny.


Steel

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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 2:17:05 PM   
TurboJugend


Posts: 481
Joined: 6/15/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: estah

Turbojugend Netherlands has laws similar to those in Germany and I find them balanced, but I think in the Netherlands you can abort after the 12th week. I will have to check that.


up to 5 weeks you get a abortion pill
afther 12 weeks abortion gets a little more complex.
Abortion is allowed up to week 24

also there is a 5 days "think"period afther you visit the docter. If you really want an abortion or not.

< Message edited by TurboJugend -- 8/21/2009 2:18:45 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 2:19:52 PM   
Viridana


Posts: 754
Status: offline 		I'm pro-life, pro-choice, pro-responsibility and pro-sexual education for teens and adults. 

(in reply to TurboJugend)
Profile   Post #: 100
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