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RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:14:06 AM   
estah


Posts: 491
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		I am not the only female I know who has kept a child who is the product of rape and none of us regret keeping the child. We do not look at our children and see a 'product' of rape, we look at our children and see amazing humans who give so much joy and love to others, who have their own dreams and lives. We see people who mean the world to us. I have never really heard of a female regretting it when she keeps a child that is the result of a rape.

(in reply to lockemann)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:15:26 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: estah

I am not the only female I know who has kept a child who is the product of rape and none of us regret keeping the child. We do not look at our children and see a 'product' of rape, we look at our children and see amazing humans who give so much joy and love to others, who have their own dreams and lives. We see people who mean the world to us. I have never really heard of a female regretting it when she keeps a child that is the result of a rape.


And that is admirable, but surely you wouldnt want to push a woman into keeping that child just because you could?

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'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:15:46 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Okay Time to crack the knuckles and hunker down cause this will piss off some people.
  Piss me off, no... make me shake my head and give a rather disappointed sigh, yes.

quote:

I would love to see that an Abortion cost as much as a Pregnancy. Maybe then the 3 dollar box of condoms or $15.00 Monthly Pill or Shot would not look so bad.


And when the procedure is a necessity due to medical reasons?  Or for one of those people you mentioned who used a birth control method that failed, or got pregnant due to rape/incest/some other horrific reason?  Would you condeme them equally with those who are simply wanting to shirk responcibility?  (Then again - why not - the government does it on a regular and frequent basis, so it's not like you haven't got a prime example of that in front of you daily.)
 
I've had the procedure, Steel - medically necessary during a pregnacy with Twins where one miscarried and that miscarriage left the womb a decidedly hostile environment.  It's not pleasant.  Medically, or emotionally.  And yet - despite the fact that it's decidedly unpleasant and not necessarily the Best option - I made a Conscious Choice during every pregnancy after my eldest spawn was born - to get the fetus tested, and if those tests showed the same sort of birth defects were imminent, to abort rather that dealing with a second child with severe birth defects and lifelong handicaps and medical problems that would Likely kill them before they were 5 anyway.
 
No, it's not a great choice.  It's probably not the best choice in 95% of situations.  But it should still Remain a legal choice.

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(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:17:03 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline
quote:

Where is there a Constitutional Right to Abort a Child?

Where is there a Constitutional Right to continue to be Irresponsible and have no repercussion for it.


Steel you seem AWFULLY quiet on where's the MAN's RESPONSIBILITY for the conceivement that lead to the abortion to begin with.  And yeah, conceivement doesn't indicate CHILD -- please don't start using the emotional omg you are killing a child, no they are aborting a fetus that was conceived and not yet born.  If you are going to start the emotional crap, you've already lost. 


However, what IS your take when you want to take away a woman's ability to conceive because she aborted what you or the government would state is TOO MANY TIMES, where are the Men in all this?  I mean they were all gung ho for the conceivement and many times in agreement with the abortions, also what about all these guys who have 3-6 kids with different women they don't take care of? Whose responsibility is it again to PAY THE COST OF PREGNANCY?  Only the woman's? 

Sorry but your arguments are bullshit and constructed in bias and the same tunnel vision of all the Men who are fathers out there but don't take the responsibility for their children -- well, i may have fucked her but its her fault she got pregnant.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 8/21/2009 11:22:25 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:19:14 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Great post, angel.

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:21:14 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Great post, angel.


Seconded.

Gotta bring in the fact that many many men are currently fighting for rights to children, this thread suggests that actually its all the women, im sure though that if any men on this thread had their children taken from them by their partners they may be arguing something different

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:24:25 AM   
estah


Posts: 491
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		I would not push it but I would recommend they speak to a professional (pro choice) a couple of times before making the decision. Separate the event of the rape from the child if possible.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:26:18 AM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Also, Steel, i wanted to state this:

Where's the constitutional right to NOT abort a fetus?  Where is the constitutional right to HAVE children, i don't think there is one actually defined.  It seems to be one of those well because you naturally can, its not my place to take away that ability type of idea in the government.

So you mean we should start saying to some women, well you don't seem responsible so we are going to sterilize you even if you decided to bear all the kids the state and others who now are responsible for them?  Hell some people really SHOULD have abortions don't and kids actual kids end up dead.  So any woman who neglects their child should be sterilized right, especially if there are say more than what 2 kids she has and is neglecting.  ITS the same argument YOU are using in your sterilize women who are having what some powers that be deems to many abortions.  What about Men who harm their children by making them live in poverty because they refuse to pay for anything or harm them in other ways.  Hell we aren't even allowed to casterate Men who violate children but you want to sterilize women for making a decision one to many times for YOUR comfort to abort a fetus for whatever reason?

angel

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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(in reply to LillyoftheVally)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:27:25 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: estah

I would not push it but I would recommend they speak to a professional (pro choice) a couple of times before making the decision. Separate the event of the rape from the child if possible.


See I find that partonising, I was really lucky, mine didnt result in pregnancy, if it did then I am afraid I would have not needed any professionals to help me decide. I would have known. I know this because there was a stage where it was a very real possibility.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to estah)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:29:03 AM   
TurboJugend


Posts: 481
Joined: 6/15/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lockemann

Without anyone getting too upset, I would like to know if kinky people are more tolerant about abortion.  Are you pro, or anti- abortion?  If you happen to be anti-abortion, what are your views on birth control methods?

Just really curious about this....



I see the abortion question beeing raised so often. I never stand still anymore if it is good or bad. Abortion isn't a sin overhere ( The Netherlands). There are so many reasons to have it done.
It is better to have laws for it, then it to happen in back rooms.

Birth control is pretty standard here also, sex education at schools etc.. But mistakes can happen. And abortion should not be seen as birth control...at least that is not how it is seen and used here.
( I know the Netherlands is often seen as hell or Sodom and Gomorra by the world...)

(in reply to lockemann)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:35:57 AM   
estah


Posts: 491
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		Lily I did not mean to sound patranising, I am just trying to say, is try to make such a decision in a calmer state of mind, not in a highly emotional state of mind. It is not easy and many cannot do it. Hell I almost decided for abortion. Rape is never an easy thing to deal with, whatever the outcome I suggest seeking help. (Lily this was a generalisation not directed at you.)

(in reply to TurboJugend)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:37:38 AM   
estah


Posts: 491
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		Turbojugend Netherlands has laws similar to those in Germany and I find them balanced, but I think in the Netherlands you can abort after the 12th week. I will have to check that.

(in reply to estah)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:39:41 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: estah

Lily I did not mean to sound patranising, I am just trying to say, is try to make such a decision in a calmer state of mind, not in a highly emotional state of mind. It is not easy and many cannot do it. Hell I almost decided for abortion. Rape is never an easy thing to deal with, whatever the outcome I suggest seeking help. (Lily this was a generalisation not directed at you.)


Well from the other side of the coin I believe many can make the decision without help, indeed many do not need professional help to get through a rape at all. I would recommend that people do what is best from them.

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to estah)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:39:42 AM   
Apocalypso


Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/20/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: estah
I am just trying to say, is try to make such a decision in a calmer state of mind, not in a highly emotional state of mind. It is not easy and many cannot do it.
Surely that should be entirely up to the individual?  Requiring people to go into counselling, regardless of their wishess, is not respecting individual autonomy.  And in the case of rape, I'd argue that we should be respecting individual autonomy even more than we would do generally.



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(in reply to estah)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:42:39 AM   
estah


Posts: 491
Joined: 5/2/2009
Status: offline 		Apocalyso, I never said anything about forcing anyone to do anything, I just recommended it. There is a big difference.

(in reply to Apocalypso)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:52:59 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		BarelyAngel, three great posts, thankyou

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(in reply to estah)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 11:56:20 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
Okay I will address all this at the same time.

First off just cause I have a Penis doesn’t mean I am on the Man side. Don’t assume that you just make an ass of yourself cause you don’t do anything to me.

The Men have an even responsibility but they do not get to decide if a child is aborted or carried to term. They have NO SAY WHATSO EVER except that they were there when it was conceived. You want Men to take more responsibility give them more rights to the child then they currently have which is ZERO. WHY? Because the child isn’t in the MAN’S Body so the Rights and with the rights in my opinion is the RESPONSIBILITY.

Now that being said I fully agree if Man is KNOWN to be the reason for all three abortions then FUCK YEAH Clip the Bastard. I Plan on Being clipped and I plan on having the one that is NOT reversible. Yes you can get a Vasticular Section Removal and be done with it being reversed and that is what I plan on doing. We are discussing having a second child or not I don’t want one and andi does so it is still on the table but once it has been decided we will be done. If I have a child after that it better be called Jesus Christ or some Doctor better have a VERY GOOD EXCUSE.

No one in the Constitution does it say you have a right to a child but I wasn’t ever saying it did, debating the opposite of the subject does not realize a debate, I think that children are a RESPONSIBILITY PERIOD, Not a right but a privilege of man (The Species not the gender). There are so many arguments that you are throwing at me that I am not making.

I am not saying you don’t hold the male responsible I am saying it is far more expensive to PROVE it is the male when you know for 100% certain you have the right Female.

My Only Argument is that everyone should take Responsibility for their actions and stop looking for a quick fix. I think abortions have valid reasons and there were many listed on this thread I am not talking about those I am referring to the multiple Abortions being done because someone can’t be bothered to get on birth control or but a box of condoms. I think it is easy to prove that the circumstances for your Necessary Abortion, I just want to know that when someone has an unnecessary one based on negligence that they will be held responsible or lose the ability.

Steel

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 12:02:37 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
 I think it is easy to prove that the circumstances for your Necessary Abortion, I just want to know that when someone has an unnecessary one based on negligence that they will be held responsible or lose the ability.


Your sense of moral outrage is duly noted - I'm fascinated to discover that you hold the universal wisdom in deciding whether someone has 'an unnecessary one based on negligence', and how they should pay by 'losing the ability' as a consequence of their moral ineptitude. Pray, tell us: who appointed you judge and jury for all of us again  ?

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 12:09:33 PM   
ShaharThorne


Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline 		I am pro-choice and pro-responsibilty. The male should practice birth control as well. Luckily I can no longer get pregnant and retain a fetus due to a hysterectomy over 5 years ago. Stating that, I did have the D&C 3 times, once of which was after the first miscarriage, 2 of which was necessary to get pregnant (overabundance of uterine tissue). I battle inferility most of my adult life and have only one child to show for it (5 fetuses, 4 miscarriages). Now I am celebrating my sexual freedom (really lack of sex since I am not really looking for a guy) and I haven't been happier (the rants are part of my mental illness).

Don't mind me, just rambling before picking up the dog from the groomer's.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Abortion - 8/21/2009 12:14:44 PM   
SweetNika


Posts: 955
Joined: 4/19/2008
From: Forest Hills, Maryland
Status: offline 		Steel I totally agree with your post and I think it was well said.

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Profile   Post #: 80
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