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ORIGINAL: Rule

Nothing is off limits to critical examination by qualified people. Since you have demonstrated a lack of spiritual awarenes, as well as a lack of ability to distinguish between the incarnate gods and the Divine, I must conclude that you are not qualified.

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ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally
WOW, want me to come over there and unbunch your knickers for you?

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

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ORIGINAL: Rule
Nothing is off limits to critical examination by qualified people. Since you have demonstrated a lack of spiritual awarenes, as well as a lack of ability to distinguish between the incarnate gods and the Divine, I must conclude that you are not qualified.

"Spirituality" has no system of qualification other than individuals convincing themselves they are qualified.

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ORIGINAL: Rule

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ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally
WOW, want me to come over there and unbunch your knickers for you?

I gather that he is from the USA, where there are all kinds of Christians that take themselves far too seriously - especiallly considering that most of them have a mutilated penis and thus by my definition are not Christians at all.
My mum always and still considered Christianity as a quaint kind of hobby, not unlike her stamp collecting.
Atheists in The Netherlands do not bother at all with trying to convert Christians. We have had centuries of religious conflict and have learned to leave the other guy to mind his own business.

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ideology

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ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Esinn do you follow any particular ideology?

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ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Nihilus do yo think Marx was qualified to critique Marxism?

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ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

Esinn do you follow any particular ideology?

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ORIGINAL: Starbuck09

I've started a fair few Esinn though not for a few weeks you'll have to dig a couple of pages back to find mine.
I will read the articles Esinn I just can't dredge up the energy at the moment. However in the meantime just for debate's sake... do you?

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Consider 2 of the greatest theist scholars of modern times Ken Miller & Francis Collins. They are now forced to admit evolution is a fact. This contradicts every word in Genesis. No ancient doctrine, parchment or scroll was found that suggested god gave us evolution or intended its creation story to be accepted only as a metaphor - yet they are forced to accept this fact or loose their career. Science filled the once infamous 'god-gap' the story of Genesis. It filled it with such veracity denial of it would mean metaphorical suicide for them. However, if they made the claims a few hundred years ago, 'god did it - evolution sucks' they would have been hailed as heroes. It the wrong modern place or ancient era saying evolution did it, not god could have ended badly

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The reason any writing in the bible/Quran must be viewed as a 'story' by modern day man is just that. We are not ancient superstitious sand strewn men. We recognize, many of us, that most of the writings in the bible are non-rational claims of ancient people whose ignorance was truly not their fault. Those who wish to remain theist declare this as a metaphor or that as just a story. As we push forward it seems modern theists are turning much of early(ancient) religious absolutes into metaphors/stories so they can seem to remain rational.

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Modern day thinking through critical examination has crushed most ancient thought to the point of no return - only 3(some say say 6) remain.. This is quite an accomplishment. It has been established almost to the point of absolute truth that those who still follow Mithra or Thoth with the same ferocious veracity as some do yhvh/Allah they do so at the risk of being labeled insane and locked away. Or at least being marginalized by intelligent people.

It would not be 'socially' acceptable for the commander of the USS Enterprise(Aircraft Carrier - see pic) to demand his crew bow their heads and pray to Poseidon, Thetis or Oceanus each day before setting sail. These gods are the self proclaimed rulers of the seas. Yet, if the same person called upon the crew to pray to the meek and mild Jesus, although JC never directly laid claim to the ocean this would land public empathy. See how those 3 gods have been destroyed? Or consider Zeus and a meteorologist.

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If the agenda of christianity is to market itself down the throats of highschool students and they do not follow the class outlines(which demand no personal 'religious' interpretation allowed), this might just be their objective , it is one of the most clean cut violations of church and state we have had in a bit. When that fight comes - 'they' are ready(Like god I will leave who "they" are a mystery). I will give them $100-200 though as should everyone.

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ORIGINAL: FullCircle

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Consider 2 of the greatest theist scholars of modern times Ken Miller & Francis Collins. They are now forced to admit evolution is a fact. This contradicts every word in Genesis. No ancient doctrine, parchment or scroll was found that suggested god gave us evolution or intended its creation story to be accepted only as a metaphor - yet they are forced to accept this fact or loose their career. Science filled the once infamous 'god-gap' the story of Genesis. It filled it with such veracity denial of it would mean metaphorical suicide for them. However, if they made the claims a few hundred years ago, 'god did it - evolution sucks' they would have been hailed as heroes. It the wrong modern place or ancient era saying evolution did it, not god could have ended badly

The common argument to counter this is that you can only teach people that which they are capable of understanding. If evolution was included in the bible it would perhaps be beyond the questions they were searching for answers for at that point in time when the bible was written. You never read any text and it says the following paragraph is a metaphor.

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The reason any writing in the bible/Quran must be viewed as a 'story' by modern day man is just that. We are not ancient superstitious sand strewn men. We recognize, many of us, that most of the writings in the bible are non-rational claims of ancient people whose ignorance was truly not their fault. Those who wish to remain theist declare this as a metaphor or that as just a story. As we push forward it seems modern theists are turning much of early(ancient) religious absolutes into metaphors/stories so they can seem to remain rational.

I suppose one of the things I'd question most about the bible is why an oracle of god hasn't produced an up dated version for the 21st century man to interpret. The biggest argument against such religious texts when using the 'we were only capable of understanding this at that point in time' argument is that somebody upstairs should have realised by now that we have far more complex questions these days. You can only get so much wisdom out of a nursery rhyme.

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Modern day thinking through critical examination has crushed most ancient thought to the point of no return - only 3(some say say 6) remain.. This is quite an accomplishment. It has been established almost to the point of absolute truth that those who still follow Mithra or Thoth with the same ferocious veracity as some do yhvh/Allah they do so at the risk of being labeled insane and locked away. Or at least being marginalized by intelligent people.

It would not be 'socially' acceptable for the commander of the USS Enterprise(Aircraft Carrier - see pic) to demand his crew bow their heads and pray to Poseidon, Thetis or Oceanus each day before setting sail. These gods are the self proclaimed rulers of the seas. Yet, if the same person called upon the crew to pray to the meek and mild Jesus, although JC never directly laid claim to the ocean this would land public empathy. See how those 3 gods have been destroyed? Or consider Zeus and a meteorologist.

I think what crushes ancient thought more than modern critical study is the vagueness of it; as time passes people start to fill in the blanks about what they believed to be the case regarding ancient gods. It's more or less impossible to worship such gods because our understanding of the rituals involved are limited to archaeologists and academics. This for me does not mean modern gods supersede ancient gods in terms of legitimacy.

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If the agenda of christianity is to market itself down the throats of highschool students and they do not follow the class outlines(which demand no personal 'religious' interpretation allowed), this might just be their objective , it is one of the most clean cut violations of church and state we have had in a bit. When that fight comes - 'they' are ready(Like god I will leave who "they" are a mystery). I will give them $100-200 though as should everyone.

The problem is that finding out what is taught behind closed doors in various institutions around the country is not an immediate thing. By the time you realise what is going on perhaps two cycles of students have passed through the system and 60% of those will have a high gullibility rating.

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ORIGINAL: Rule

The question is not whether ancient man understood the universe as modern man perceives it, but whether modern man can possibly understand the universe as ancient man perceived it.

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ORIGINAL: GotSteel
I can't imagine why we would want to.