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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 9:45:33 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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I believe it is easier for people to believe a negative, than acknowledge a positive. Negativity is actually more contagious than a positive attitude. You see it here on these boards, all around the world, and so many miss the point I believe the OP is making. Yes there are many things we can improve upon, and we have posters like RML that will always remind us of them. Then there are stories like the one in the OP, that remind some of us why we fight like we do, why we are all so passionate, and with all the things I see that are bad or can be improved, there is no other country I would rather live in.

Used to someone would say "My fellow Americans." and people would swell with pride. I think we have allowed too much media, and two much of the two parties tearing at each other, and everything in this country, and have lost our way. As flawed as our system is, it is one of the best, if not the very best.

quote:



The optimist believes that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true.



Not sure where I read that quote, but it proves true every day.

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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 9:45:54 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
one wonderful (and it is a wonderful) story does not a trend make.



Also flying on this mission will be a third generation Mexican American named Danny Olivas...

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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 9:49:57 PM   
cpK69


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Status: offline 		Well, if nothing else, it is versatile.

Kim

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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 9:54:03 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

"The land of opportunity" just doesn't mesh with "America baaa-aad," I suppose.  How remarkable is the USA?  We just elected the son of Kenyan goat-herder to be the most powerful public figure on earth, and when we fire him for incompetence in another 3 years, 3 months, it won't take a bloody coup to get him to leave.  I think that is pretty cool too.


Where else could this sort of stuff even be dreamed of?


Only in your imagination I guess.

A goat-herder?

How about a Phi-Beta-Kappa graduate of the University of Hawaii with a degree in economics and a Master's degree in economics from Harvard.

But, then again, I don't know much about goat-herding, so maybe it takes more education than I thought.

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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 9:59:48 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

"The land of opportunity" just doesn't mesh with "America baaa-aad," I suppose.  How remarkable is the USA?  We just elected the son of Kenyan goat-herder to be the most powerful public figure on earth, and when we fire him for incompetence in another 3 years, 3 months, it won't take a bloody coup to get him to leave.  I think that is pretty cool too.


Where else could this sort of stuff even be dreamed of?


Only in your imagination I guess.

A goat-herder?

How about a Phi-Beta-Kappa graduate of the University of Hawaii with a degree in economics and a Master's degree in economics from Harvard.

But, then again, I don't know much about goat-herding, so maybe it takes more education than I thought.




That's the story President Obama told.  I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but he might have been lying...

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/50lies.asp

Number 2 on the list...

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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 10:10:33 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

~FR~

I believe it is easier for people to believe a negative, than acknowledge a positive. Negativity is actually more contagious than a positive attitude. You see it here on these boards, all around the world, and so many miss the point I believe the OP is making. Yes there are many things we can improve upon, and we have posters like RML that will always remind us of them. Then there are stories like the one in the OP, that remind some of us why we fight like we do, why we are all so passionate, and with all the things I see that are bad or can be improved, there is no other country I would rather live in.



Yes, I will definitely remind you Orion.

I saw this article before it was posted here, and yes I did have pride that someone could accomplish this in our country coming from humble beginnings.

But the blind patriotism with which it was presented here is a large part of the problem we have in this country.

Even if you haven't traveled very much to other countries you can see by the comments by posters from outside the U.S. that we are viewed as arrogant and condescending. 

Patriotic, chest-thumping nonsense like "only in America" doesn't help.

But more than that, it allows us to be blinded to the problems that do exist.

Just look at the health care threads where there are still people insisting we have the best health-care system in the world, though by most parameters that is easily proven wrong.

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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 10:22:36 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife


I saw this article before it was posted here, and yes I did have pride that someone could accomplish this in our country coming from humble beginnings.

But the blind patriotism with which it was presented here is a large part of the problem we have in this country.


And there you go again, RML, dreaming up words to put in my mouth.  Stop that.  I pointed out that immigrants risk everything to come here, and you read that as blind patriotism?

That you liked the article, and felt good about it, until you saw that I had posted it....  What does that say about you, and who is blind?

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 8/24/2009 10:30:53 PM >

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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 10:27:25 PM   
cpK69


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Then there are stories like the one in the OP, that remind some of us why we fight like we do, why we are all so passionate, and with all the things I see that are bad or can be improved, there is no other country I would rather live in.



Just my perspective… it seems more accurate to say the story is an example of why many stand their ground; but the fight is out of fear.

I am unclear as to whether there was ever a ‘we’ pertaining to the US, but it is very clear that there isn’t one now, and the path it is said to be on; lost.

Kim




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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 10:36:34 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


And there you go again, RML, dreaming up things to put in my mouth.  Stop that.  I pointed out that immigrants risk everything to come here, and you read that as blind patriotism?

That you liked the article, and felt good about it, until you saw that I had posted it....  What does that say about you, and who is blind?


Are we the only country in the world immigrants come to?

Or is it like applying to college, if they can't come here (which undoubtedly is their first choice, because we are the envy of the world) they go to a second-tier country?

And it's not that you posted it, but the way you posted it, and the remarks following the initial post.  Not to mention the thread title.

There's a fine line between patriotism and arrogance.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 8/24/2009 10:37:00 PM >

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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 10:48:27 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

And it's not that you posted it, but the way you posted it



Right...  Cuz' you're the expert on my motivations and thoughts (sarcasm)...  Google shows 163 million hits for the phrase "only in America," but you know exactly how I meant it...  And you have the nerve to then use the word "arrogance" in your post???

edited to put training wheels on the sarcasm

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 8/24/2009 10:52:16 PM >

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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 10:50:18 PM   
ModeratorEleven


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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 10:54:58 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


And there you go again, RML, dreaming up words to put in my mouth.  Stop that.  I pointed out that immigrants risk everything to come here, and you read that as blind patriotism?




Maybe it was the part where you said -


quote:

Where else could this sort of stuff even be dreamed of?






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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 10:59:33 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Asked and answered, Panda.  Post 20.  And that was hardly the OP, either.



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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 11:26:48 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Asked and answered, Panda.  Post 20.  And that was hardly the OP, either.




The title of the thread itself is "Only in America", man.

I agree with Rule. This is just a really weird thread. A lot of people criticize the US, but where in the world you get the idea that means they think America is only bad is a complete mystery to me. I can't think of anyone here who doesn't think there's a lot that's good about this country, even the people who criticize it the most. I can't figure out why you feel the need to point out that there are some really good things about this country when nobody has ever denied that in the first place, and I'm especially puzzled as to why you felt the need to do it with such an in-your-face tone. And then to top that off by bragging that America is the only country where immigrants can even dream of being astronauts and presidents, or whatever point it was that you were trying to make there, is just too much. America is a pretty good place to live, and it has a lot of opportunities, but on balance it's no better than any one of maybe a couple of dozen other countries around the world. And by a lot of measures, nowhere near as good.

If you love your country that much, fine. More power to you. But if you want to make grandiose, unfounded assertions about how much better it is than every other country in the world, don't be surprised if people point out how off the mark you are.


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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 11:27:48 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I just read this, somehow the astronaut story doesn’t make up for this krud.

Keeping track of the empire's crimes
....I've compiled a list of CIA assassination attempts, successful and unsuccessful, against prominent foreign political figures, from 1949 through 2003, which, depending on how you count it, can run into the hundreds (targeting Fidel Castro alone totals 634 according to Cuban intelligence)2; .... The list can be found here.

For those of you who collect lists about splendid US foreign policy post-World War II, here are a few more that, lacking anything better to do, I've put together: Attempts to overthrow more than 50 foreign governments, most of which had been democratically-elected.

After his June 4 Cairo speech, President Obama was much praised for mentioning the 1953 CIA overthrow of Iranian prime minister Mohammed Mossadegh. But in his talk in Ghana on July 11 he failed to mention the CIA coup that ousted Ghanian president Kwame Nkrumah in 1963, referring to him only as a "giant" among African leaders. The Mossadegh coup is one of the most well-known CIA covert actions. Obama could not easily get away without mentioning it in a talk in the Middle East looking to mend fences. But the Nkrumah ouster is one of the least known; indeed, not a single print or broadcast news report in the American mainstream media saw fit to mention it at the time of the president's talk. Like it never happened.

And the next time you hear that Africa can't produce good leaders, people who are committed to the welfare of the masses of their people, think of Nkrumah and his fate. And think of Patrice Lumumba, overthrown in the Congo 1960-61 with the help of the United States; Agostinho Neto of Angola, against whom Washington waged war in the 1970s, making it impossible for him to institute progressive changes; Samora Machel of Mozambique against whom the CIA supported a counter-revolution in the 1970s-80s period; and Nelson Mandela of South Africa (now married to Machel's widow), who spent 28 years in prison thanks to the CIA.4

Gross interference in democratic elections in at least 30 countries5

Waging war/military action, either directly or in conjunction with a proxy army, in some 30 countries

Dropping bombs on the people of more than 30 countries

Attempts to suppress dozens of populist/nationalist movements in every corner of the world




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RE: Only in America - 8/24/2009 11:39:08 PM   
Brain


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Glenn Beck Returns and Calls MSNBC Racist
http://www.politicususa.com/en/Beck-MSNBC-Racist

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RE: Only in America - 8/25/2009 12:02:31 AM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
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Status: offline 		And this guy, holy cow! What can I say about this? Only in America

Manning Speaks Out Against the ''Mack Daddy''
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoODg-f-PpU&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Findependencehallliberty%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F2009%2F08%2Fdr%2Djames%2Ddavid%2Dmanning%2Dcontinues%2Dhis%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded#t=35


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RE: Only in America - 8/25/2009 12:05:45 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
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From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		I am not an American, I am a proud Canadian. I see much in America that is deplorable, I see much in America's actions on the world stage that is deplorable. And I voice my opinion and hope things change...why? Because America is a dream that belongs to the world. It is a dream, that it is possible for free men to create a nation and live together. When your founding fathers created your republic they issued a challenge to the world.  A challenge which still stands today...it is possible to live free. America is an amazing experiment in human freedom, it is the only country founded on that one principle. Other countries have come to that conclusion, and indeed for all practical purposes are indistinguishable on that point. Yet still America means something more.

To me.America is a promise, a promise that in the final analysis freedom will not be extinguished by tyranny.  I happen to believe that Canada is a better country, but still America shines like a beacon, here is where the great experiment began, yes, the philosophical roots are in Europe, but it was in America that these ideas were first made concrete, it was in America that they were put into practise. "We the people" is a powerful and compelling battle cry to all the people of the world. During their darkest hours the people of the world could always look across the ocean and find hope....if they did it, then so can we.

Yes America has acted like a bully, and yes America has backed its share of dictators, but in the final analysis America has always stood for what is good, for the idea that a person be left in peace to live their lives as they see fit.

America is a work in progress,  as I said an experiment. Much has gone wrong in America, but still it remains a powerful symbol to all the world. There are places where America is hated, yet even there you will find people who will quote Jefferson and Franklin, people who hope to have what America has attempted to create. America is far from perfect, it is brash and often ugly, and often throws its weight around without considering the ramifications of what it is doing, but America remains what it started out as, a challenge and a promise to the whole world. America is much more than a country, America is an idea, an idea  that does not belong to Americans so much as it belongs to the whole world.

It is difficult to explain to Americans how they can be so reviled for their actions and yet still remain that promise. Americans have a duty to the rest of the world, a duty to make sure that America remains what it set out to be, a duty to make sure that America does not get fucked up, that the idea and the dream will continue. You are not the owners of America, you are its caretakers, it does and always has belonged to the whole world. It is your country, but it is the symbol of our hopes. Anyone who yearns for freedom or who cherishes it once won is at heart an American.

That is what America means to me.


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RE: Only in America - 8/25/2009 12:09:24 AM   
WyldHrt


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Status: offline 		Just... wow. Thank you, Arpig, that was lovely. 

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RE: Only in America - 8/25/2009 12:09:36 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		As I pointed out, Panda, Google gives a count of about 163 million hits on the phrase, "only in America," so let's not be quite so hasty in assuming you know exactly how I meant it. 

I notice you haven't answered my question.  Name me another country where this could happen.  A country with a manned space program where a child of the lowest caste of immigrant (do we need to argue where migrant workers fall in the pecking order???) could rise to the level this man has achieved?  I'm not holding my breath.  Let's see some foundation for you to challenge my "unfounded" assertions. 

Now I am a patriotic sort, to be sure.  Part of that comes from an appreciation of the fact that my family wasn't hauled off into the gulags in the early 70's, part of it comes from understanding that so much of what many Americans take for granted is pretty fucking rare.  I'm not blind to the problems, but I think our system offers the best route to solving them. 

Blind patriotism, as I've been accused of?  Obviously, someone has never read my posts regarding the US auto industry, much less my thoughts on the poverty maintenance and continuation policies of our government, or any of my other critiques of the status quo.  Other than having enjoyed owning a French car, I have no use for the French.  Is that what is meant?

I'm going to bed.  You can try and google up other countries with manned space programs, and read up on their immigration laws if you want.  Have fun with that.




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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 40
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