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President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/29/2009 11:13:03 PM

Brain

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President Obama is actually a fiscal conservative and when realistic assumptions are used the long-term deficit is actually lower.

TAPPED Archive | The American Prospect - Obama has reduced the deficit.
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=08&year=2009&base_name=obama_has_reduced_the_deficit

Post #: 1

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/30/2009 6:33:05 AM

DarkSteven

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No way.

The article does not reference the actual deficit at all. Instead it pertains to PROJECTED deficits. The essence of the article is that a projection of the Obama deficit some years down the road is less than a projection of the deficit under Bush. Implicit in this statement is the assumption that the projections are accurate, which they of course aren't.

Simply, Obama's administration is spending more than the government is taking in. In other words, the deficit has increased. Simple, no?

If the deficit is expressed as a percent of GDP, then it is possible for the deficit to drop as a percent of GDP. IF GDP rises significantly. But I'd be willing to bet that GDP has dropped since a year ago.

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Post #: 2

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/30/2009 7:33:37 AM

NeedToUseYou

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

President Obama is actually a fiscal conservative and when realistic assumptions are used the long-term deficit is actually lower.

TAPPED Archive | The American Prospect - Obama has reduced the deficit.
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/tapped_archive?month=08&year=2009&base_name=obama_has_reduced_the_deficit

LOL, good one, and in five years I'll have six pack abs, a billion dollars, and a harem of 40 beautiful women, I can show you in my projections, how I'm going to attain that five years down the road. So, you should treat it as fact.

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 3

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/30/2009 7:47:47 AM

MistressWolfen

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What DarkSteven said *nods*

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Post #: 4

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/30/2009 11:29:37 AM

servantforuse

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With a projected 10 trillion dollar deficit, not counting any health care reform, that is one of the most ridiculus things I have ever heard on these boards. A fiscal conservative. Thats a classic.

(in reply to MistressWolfen)

Post #: 5

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/30/2009 1:29:11 PM

awmslave

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At this point, it seems to me and hopefully to many others, the debt will never be paid. Earlier or later the US dollar will collapse and this will solve the debt problem. I see Obama as the equivalent to Soviet M. Gorbatchev who was an excellent speaker. Gorby is not much liked today in Russia. People loved him when he was the Soviet leader. Deficit itself is not a major problem. How deficit spending is used and if it would lead to a sustainable economy is the question. There are some minor adjustments being done on US economic system but are these sufficient? Empires fall mostly because of corruption. How can the corruption of US elites be cured is a question? Can it be cured at all? US financial leaders claim that if R. Paul bill (Congress auditing Fed. Reserve) will be passed and Americans learn what Federal Reserve is doing (in secret) US economy will collapse.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 6

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/30/2009 4:20:26 PM

tazzygirl

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Date Debt Held by the Public Intragovernmental Holdings Total Public Debt Outstanding

08/27/2009 7,393,885,646,934.29 4,331,592,189,156.56 11,725,477,836,090.85

08/27/2008 5,455,420,775,392.02 4,173,374,932,973.18 9,628,795,708,365.20

08/27/2007 5,054,962,730,795.07 3,924,899,856,568.39 8,979,862,587,363.46

08/25/2006 4,876,022,745,420.90 3,629,742,298,113.68 8,505,765,043,534.58

08/26/2005 4,618,337,467,882.36 3,313,838,304,669.62 7,932,175,772,551.98

08/27/2004 Not Available Not Available 7,353,436,027,526.85

08/27/2003 Not Available Not Available 6,788,645,666,601.51

08/27/2002 Not Available Not Available 6,211,118,788,912.48

08/27/2001 Not Available Not Available 5,803,353,287,714.99

08/25/2000 Not Available Not Available 5,677,647,064,339.47

08/27/1999 Not Available Not Available 5,649,777,641,199.26

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/NPGateway

Maybe im wrong... but... between 2001 and 2008 the deficit rose 3,825,442,420,650?

And, dont forget, he inherited over 9 Trillion from those before him. And part of te Two trillion that most lay at his feet was to protect jobs and bail out wall street.

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Post #: 7

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/31/2009 11:58:23 AM

Brain

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I must say it’s astonishing how easily people believe Republican lies and of course religion and believing in God is the biggest lie of all mankind but that’s another topic.

Bill Clinton reduced the deficit and produced a budget surplus and Obama will do this again. He just needs more time because he had to prevent another depression which was inevitable without a stimulus.

Here’s something else you might want to consider but of course it was in the New York Times so it is obviously another lie.

Health Bill Would Cut Drug Spending for Many on Medicare, Budget Office Says
By ROBERT PEAR

Premiums would rise, the Congressional Budget Office estimated, but many beneficiaries would see total drug spending decline.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/health/policy/31drug.html?th&emc=th

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 8

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/31/2009 12:03:21 PM

Arpig

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quote:

and of course religion and believing in God is the biggest lie of all mankind but that’s another topic.

Then why bother mentioning it.Your constant emphasizing of your religious beliefs is tiresome, its akin to that clip about the weirdo Christian running for mayor of some town that Esinn posted....give it a friggin rest Brain, it is tiresome and repetitive, especially when you stuff it into damn near any thread regardless of if it has any relevance.

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Post #: 9

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/31/2009 12:03:55 PM

Brain

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So the president, Obama, is being criticized about deficits that are not real? How nice!

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 10

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/31/2009 12:45:26 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
So the president, Obama, is being criticized about deficits that are not real? How nice!

I think you misunderstood. The deficit is indeed VERY real. It's the Administration's projections which are questionable, based simply upon their own "reevaluation".

quote:

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says that President Obama’s budget and deficit projections are too low. The president’s budget will incur $9.3 trillion in federal deficits between 2010 and 2019 --$2.3 trillion higher than Obama had originally claimed.

In fact, the budget office found that Obama’s projected deficits are more than double what they would be if the president had merely stuck with the current spending and taxation proposals left by the Bush administration.

Under current spending proposals, including the $787 billion stimulus spending and $410 billion omnibus spending bills, the deficit would total $4.4 trillion over 10 years, not the $9.3 trillion Obama’s budget incurs.

Obama’s record deficits mean a record national debt – one that totals $17 trillion, up from the current $6.7 trillion

MARCH ARTICLE

Note the word "nonpartisan" used in the first quote; someday you may be ready to appreciate these kind of reference sources.

The balance of the article speaks to the folly of considering the President a "fiscal conservative".

However, lets move off that and take a look at the acceptance of the reality this Administration caused and we as a country face.

quote:

The bad news is the administration calculates the annual deficit will reach about $1.5 trillion this year and next. The red ink for fiscal year 2010, which begins Oct. 1, is about $250 billion higher than the White House projected in May.

More bad news: Budget deficits over 10 years project to $9 trillion, the White House says, $2 trillion higher than earlier predicted.

THE CRYSTAL BALL WAS OUT OF FOCUS

I'm sure the 'not enough time' card will be played for the difference between the President's representation and current reality; however as recently as May they didn't foresee a $259 Billion difference in their numbers. The result shows the disconnect between the President's rhetoric and economic reality. Worse, it shows with the progression of time, the Administration hasn't gotten any better in their projections or initiating any action to positively change result or even the trend.

Sure, you can say "President Obama is a fiscal conservative"; that is your opinion as well as the opinion of others with similar political or party loyalty agenda. However, pragmatically there is not one result or economic indicator that would back you up.

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 11

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/31/2009 5:33:28 PM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

So the president, Obama, is being criticized about deficits that are not real? How nice!

Not at all.

The claim that he is reducing the deficit is based on numbers that are not real. They are projections.

Ignore the projections and use common sense. He's increasing spending and there is a big drop in taxes coming because the bubble burst. Spending increased and revenues decreased - the deficit will increase (and in my previous post, I forgot to mention that the interest on the deficit will also increase it).

It's not as though he's committing a cardinal sin here. Bush's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have blown through money like a wildfire, and it's not going to be easy to wind down those wars (and their attendant spending). Bush's policy of tax cuts uber alles is going to be politically difficult to reverse. Even if Obama made budget balancing one of his primary focuses, he's have a hard time delivering.

I have to say that although this mess is largely not of his own making, his attempt to spend us into prosperity worries me a lot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Bill Clinton reduced the deficit and produced a budget surplus and Obama will do this again. He just needs more time because he had to prevent another depression which was inevitable without a stimulus.

Why do you claim that he will produce a surplus? Obama has not made this statement himself.

I call bullshit that a depression was inevitable without a bailout/stimulus or whatever. Paulson stampeded Congress with that lie, and Obama didn't drop it.

We have NOT seen any loosening of credit, which was supposed to be the dire event that crashed the world economy. We've spent trillions in hope that the greedy banks would decide to loan money again. And they haven't. If there had been no bailout, the financial firms would have gone under. They haven't but they're still not lending.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 12

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/31/2009 6:54:31 PM

Brain

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I think I have been reading too much and am getting confused with all of these numbers, but I still have faith Obama will turn things around. He hasn’t been perfect but I think he’s doing better than the previous administration. It looks like I’m going to have to agree with Robert Kennedy Junior though when he said the Republicans are 100% corrupt and the Democrats are 60% corrupt. Maybe people should start voting for Ralph Nader.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 13

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 8/31/2009 7:01:33 PM

Slavehandsome

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Why don't we just keep paying taxes, and cut 100% of Congressional budgets (military, interstates, medical, social security) and get OUT OF DEBT. Once we're out of debt, then the fools can get back to figuring out ways to spend money that's in the positive cash flow, like an ATM.

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 14

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 12:10:37 AM

Brain

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Obamas’ premiere agenda-item, health care, would actually work to decrease the long-term deficit.
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=will_the_deficit_save_health_reform

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 15

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 12:21:27 AM

Brain

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I’m sick and tired of religion. Religion is a major pain in the ass. I mentioned it because it was related to the idea of lying. Come to think of it the Republican party has become the party of lies and religion is just another component. Quite frankly, religion has gotten a pass far too often in history and I’m not interested in perpetuating their fraud into the future indefinitely.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

and of course religion and believing in God is the biggest lie of all mankind but that’s another topic.
Then why bother mentioning it.Your constant emphasizing of your religious beliefs is tiresome, its akin to that clip about the weirdo Christian running for mayor of some town that Esinn posted....give it a friggin rest Brain, it is tiresome and repetitive, especially when you stuff it into damn near any thread regardless of if it has any relevance.

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 16

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 12:51:50 AM

Brain

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Barack Obamas’ platform offered pay as you go Balanced Budget philosophies, pro growth tax cutting to the middle class, and a repeal of the cuts to the wealthiest Americans (top 1%), Cutting Pork Barrel Spending, offering greater accountability and examination of existing programs, and to reel in tax loopholes.

Obama offered for the first time, a campaign for and funded by the people, without the impropriety of special interest money. I am still confident over the course of time he will succeed in overcoming corporate influence and bring down the deficit.

I have reread the original article and thought about the matter for a while and I have to say I am not concerned about the increase in the deficit this year because it was necessary to avoid a depression. I know some people don’t believe a depression was inevitable but when I hear hear a Nobel prize winning economist say it I am inclined to pay attention. There is a reason the man won the Nobel prize and I will listen to that man rather than someone who isn’t qualified to talk about the economy.

What matters is the long-term and in the long-term using realistic assumptions the deficit will be reduced. So I maintain my original position that Obama is a fiscal conservative. And it would help if the public held him to his campaign promises.

One final point, just because it says the Congressional budget office is nonpartisan does not mean that they are using realistic assumptions. I believe what the article said is correct. They are using those assumptions because they are the law at this time. But in the future new legislation will change those assumptions, for instance the Bush tax cuts, Obama is not going to leave those tax cuts for the rich on the books indefinitely. I don’t think he will do that, I may turn out to be wrong but right now Obama is the best we got.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 17

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 5:06:29 AM

tazzygirl

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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain
So the president, Obama, is being criticized about deficits that are not real? How nice!

I think you misunderstood. The deficit is indeed VERY real. It's the Administration's projections which are questionable, based simply upon their own "reevaluation".

quote:

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says that President Obama’s budget and deficit projections are too low. The president’s budget will incur $9.3 trillion in federal deficits between 2010 and 2019 --$2.3 trillion higher than Obama had originally claimed.

In fact, the budget office found that Obama’s projected deficits are more than double what they would be if the president had merely stuck with the current spending and taxation proposals left by the Bush administration.

Under current spending proposals, including the $787 billion stimulus spending and $410 billion omnibus spending bills, the deficit would total $4.4 trillion over 10 years, not the $9.3 trillion Obama’s budget incurs.

Obama’s record deficits mean a record national debt – one that totals $17 trillion, up from the current $6.7 trillion

MARCH ARTICLE

Note the word "nonpartisan" used in the first quote; someday you may be ready to appreciate these kind of reference sources.

The balance of the article speaks to the folly of considering the President a "fiscal conservative".

However, lets move off that and take a look at the acceptance of the reality this Administration caused and we as a country face.
quote:

The bad news is the administration calculates the annual deficit will reach about $1.5 trillion this year and next. The red ink for fiscal year 2010, which begins Oct. 1, is about $250 billion higher than the White House projected in May.

More bad news: Budget deficits over 10 years project to $9 trillion, the White House says, $2 trillion higher than earlier predicted.
THE CRYSTAL BALL WAS OUT OF FOCUS

I'm sure the 'not enough time' card will be played for the difference between the President's representation and current reality; however as recently as May they didn't foresee a $259 Billion difference in their numbers. The result shows the disconnect between the President's rhetoric and economic reality. Worse, it shows with the progression of time, the Administration hasn't gotten any better in their projections or initiating any action to positively change result or even the trend.

Sure, you can say "President Obama is a fiscal conservative"; that is your opinion as well as the opinion of others with similar political or party loyalty agenda. However, pragmatically there is not one result or economic indicator that would back you up.

OK, now im really confused, and numbers are what i am good at. your article quoted a national debt of 6.7 trillion. so i went to look up that amount, for the day of that article. here is what i found.

Date

03/24/2009

Debt Held by the Public

6,746,864,697,941.99

Intragovernmental Holdings

4,300,063,559,068.21

Total Public Debt Outstanding

11,046,928,257,010.20

These are my findings. So, taking these numbers, which figure is everyone dealing with? because often, when i listen to the news, read papers, view the boards, im seeing the total public debt as out deficit. But thats not what your article is portraying.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 18

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 5:26:19 AM

servantforuse

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When democrats allow the tax cuts implemented under the Bush administration to expire in 2010, the middle class will see a tax increase. The tax rate they have will go back to previous levels. This will be 'change' in the wrong direction.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 19

RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 5:29:11 AM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Thats not what i asked, nor is it in reply to my question, merely an assumption made upon what you percieve may happen.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 20

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