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RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 6:12:46 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

He hasn’t been perfect but I think he’s doing better than the previous administration.


Come on.  The previous administration will go down in infamy as inheriting a fairly sound fiscal situation, and destroying it.  Saying that Obama is doing better than Bush is like me telling a woman that dating me will be better than getting hit by a 2 x 4 repeatedly.  The only good thing you can say about Bushenomics is that his dogged tax cuts combined with the worst jobs growth since Hoover should have discredited trickle-down once and for all.

The truth is that Obama has been in office a short time and his policies haven't really taken root yet.

quote:

It looks like I’m going to have to agree with Robert Kennedy Junior though when he said the Republicans are 100% corrupt and the Democrats are 60% corrupt. Maybe people should start voting for Ralph Nader.



Or Ron Paul.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 7:08:49 AM   
MistressWolfen


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quote:



Or Ron Paul.



Good Gravy I just woke up and honestly read the above as "Ru Paul" until I got the specs out and reread it *lol* Mind......Ru Paul is energetic, positive and could offer a certain je ne ces que?

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(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 7:21:30 AM   
airborne92


Posts: 62
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressWolfen
Mind......Ru Paul is energetic, positive and could offer a certain je ne ces que?


This statement is not meant to be racist, or anything along those lines, but just an observation and opinion of the country as a whole. I just don't think the country is ready to elect someone like Ru Paul as President. While I agree Ru Paul is energetic, positive and has a certain je ne ces que, and some of the people of this country would agree he has those qualities. Ru Paul is not someone that will be elected anytime in the forseeable future.

(in reply to MistressWolfen)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 7:27:31 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
The Barney Frank / Fannie Mae scandal has more to do with our current economic situation than anything Bush did or didn't do.

And by the way, what is the opposite of "Trickle down" economics, anyway. "Destroy Employers" economics? Yeah, that sounds about right, and we're about to find out exactly how well that works, too.

Or rather, doesn't work.



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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 7:36:34 AM   
MistressWolfen


Posts: 578
Joined: 6/20/2005
Status: offline 		Why would one confuse a misread of arabic letters due to aged unaided eyes as a serious statement of support for the United States of America presidential selection process? Perhaps the more interesting query would be....how does one reading this small bon mot of humour immediately respond to it by throwing the "I'm not racsist just saying" card at the unoffending wee and albeit poor attempt at a bit of a morning giggle? *takes glasses off* and continues to squint through the forums this morning as sometimes they are waaaaayyyyy more interesting blurry.

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Quoth the raven

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 7:46:15 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says that President Obama’s budget and deficit projections are too low. The president’s budget will incur $9.3 trillion in federal deficits between 2010 and 2019 --$2.3 trillion higher than Obama had originally claimed.

In fact, the budget office found that Obama’s projected deficits are more than double what they would be if the president had merely stuck with the current spending and taxation proposals left by the Bush administration.

The bad news is the administration calculates the annual deficit will reach about $1.5 trillion this year and next. The red ink for fiscal year 2010, which begins Oct. 1, is about $250 billion higher than the White House projected in May.

More bad news: Budget deficits over 10 years project to $9 trillion, the White House says, $2 trillion higher than earlier predicted. THE CRYSTAL BALL WAS OUT OF FOCUS



Sooooo...........how did all those budget surpluses work out from the last ten-year CBO projection?




An Analysis of the President's Budgetary Proposals for Fiscal Year...

The Administration's economic assumptions for the next 11 years are similar to those of the Congressional Budget Office. Overall, the Administration's assumptions produce just $25 billion more in projected surpluses during the 2000-2010 period than CBO's do.


That addition results from revenues that are $98 billion higher (primarily because the Administration forecasts more rapid growth in the price index of gross domestic product, which boosts taxable income) and outlays that are $73 billion higher (because the Administration assumes higher interest rates than CBO does over most of the projection period). The additional $25 billion in projected surpluses is less than 0.1 percent of projected revenues over that period.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 8:01:28 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Sooooo...........how did all those budget surpluses work out from the last ten-year CBO projection?
Gee, I don't know RML, what occurred in 2001 (clue - it happened 10 days from today in 2001...) that perhaps was unforeseen and changed the reality behind those projections?

Two problems you should have with that. The first is the ongoing and escalating use of "he's not as bad as Bush!" to try and prop up Obama. Seriously? I don't think that's a good idea. The second is the 'what if' catastrophe. If the current Administration is doing so bad under these circumstance, how bad will it be if another event similar to 9/11 occurs?

What similar occurrence transpired from March to last week that cause the Administration to make a similar wrong, $2 Trillion error in projection? If that's too long a time period how about the error in simple revenue from May to August? With all the 'intellectual' assets available how can the Administration be off $250 BILLION in three months?! Does that give you confidence in the Administration's abilities?

Seriously, you do more to make a case for the other side than you do your own.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 8:19:16 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Sooooo...........how did all those budget surpluses work out from the last ten-year CBO projection?
Gee, I don't know RML, what occurred in 2001 (clue - it happened 10 days from today in 2001...) that perhaps was unforeseen and changed the reality behind those projections?


No shit.

Which is exactly my point.  The point I've made numerous times before.

CBO projections are a vague estimate based on current conditions.

When those conditions change the estimates go out the window.




(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 8:31:02 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: relief

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Sooooo...........how did all those budget surpluses work out from the last ten-year CBO projection?
Gee, I don't know RML, what occurred in 2001 (clue - it happened 10 days from today in 2001...) that perhaps was unforeseen and changed the reality behind those projections?


No shit. Which is exactly my point.  The point I've made numerous times before.

CBO projections are a vague estimate based on current conditions.

When those conditions change the estimates go out the window.

Your perspective comes from either a $2 Trillion error over 7 months or $250 Billion in three months; when nothing occurred. Yet you want to compare those as to 2001's 10 year numbers, to give credibility to this Administration? Those straws you're grasping for aren't supporting your cause.

Tell you what - if you want to use 2001 as the standard of measure, provide an example of something similar that has occurred from January to date? In your response, you say "conditions change". What exactly do you have in mind from these 8 months of time to make the Administration's projections so wrong?

If the Administration held your same value opinion I doubt they'd have a press conference announcing, and accepting the CBO's number; or do you consider it a waste of time for any administrator to project out their fiscal plan?

The plan shows this Administrations 'BEST' case; which happens to be the worst case in the history of the country. These are the best numbers they hope to obtain. That comforts you? That doesn't have you concerned about the 'what ifs' that could make it worse?

How far are you prepared to go to rationalize into a positive anything coming out of Washington?

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 9:15:27 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		Bush pissed away the budget surplus with his tax cuts long before 9/11 so let's not pretend that was the reason for the CBO inaccuracy.






< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/1/2009 9:16:53 AM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 9:40:14 AM   
rightwinghippie


Posts: 276
Joined: 8/12/2009
Status: offline 		Merc, apperantly he is prepared to pretend that the 911 attacks didn't affect the economy......

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 9:44:09 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie

Merc, apperantly he is prepared to pretend that the 911 attacks didn't affect the economy......


It never fails to amuse me how so many conservative posters need to ass grab with each other for support.

(not referring to you Merc)

Try making your own arguments, and try making them to me if you have a problem with something I say.





< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/1/2009 9:48:06 AM >

(in reply to rightwinghippie)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 9:47:10 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Bush pissed away the budget surplus with his tax cuts long before 9/11 so let's not pretend that was the reason for the CBO inaccuracy.


You had no supporting evidence of any change in the economic conditions from January to August regarding this Administration's budget so you attempt to distract the argument by representing that the 9/11 had no impact on the 2001 projections?

I'll let that "answer" stand as a representation of your disconnect with economic history and current economic reality.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 9:54:39 AM   
rightwinghippie


Posts: 276
Joined: 8/12/2009
Status: offline 		Making it about other posters (instead of about the statements by other posters) is probably your best tactic at this point RML, after making such a nonsense (and rather cavallier) quip about 911. Says a lot about your position though.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 9:56:21 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Bush pissed away the budget surplus with his tax cuts long before 9/11 so let's not pretend that was the reason for the CBO inaccuracy.


You had no supporting evidence of any change in the economic conditions from January to August regarding this Administration's budget so you attempt to distract the argument by representing that the 9/11 had no impact on the 2001 projections?


In the link I posted earlier there was a large discrepancy from the Bush White House projections and the CBO's projections.

How do you find that any different from the current situation?

And I can easily provide you numerous links showing the greatest cause of the deficits under Bush had their basis in his tax cuts rather than the effects of 9/11.

In fact, I have provided those sources on more than one occasion and you just continue the argument as if the proof does not exist.


(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 9:59:10 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie

Making it about other posters (instead of about the statements by other posters) is probably your best tactic at this point RML, after making such a nonsense (and rather cavallier) quip about 911. Says a lot about your position though.


I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say here.

(in reply to rightwinghippie)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 10:06:57 AM   
rightwinghippie


Posts: 276
Joined: 8/12/2009
Status: offline 		We covered that in the PM RML.

Now back to the thread at hand.

I don't think Obama has faced anything remotely close to 911 in terms of things to deal with.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 10:27:16 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

In the link I posted earlier there was a large discrepancy from the Bush White House projections and the CBO's projections
Once again making the Bush Presidency the 'standard' for considering the Obama Presidency "better"? Has your desperation set in that deep?

That said, your problem with this argument is that the reality of the circumstance that occurred in 2001 make discussion of any discrepancy, real or necessary for a political rationalization, a non issue. Had the Bush Administration had the same 8 months of Washington residency and the discrepancy was as dramatic without 9/11 you'd be making a point. However reality happened, and nothing that transpired in the 8 months after 9/11 was in the projection of the CBO or the Bush White House.

I appreciate your attempt; but the period of time post 9/11 does not have any similarity to the eight months of this Administration.

quote:

In fact, I have provided those sources on more than one occasion and you just continue the argument as if the proof does not exist.


Living in the past works for you but not me. Unfortunately, the 9/11 'what if' happened making any prior projection irrelevant to comparison to January 2009 - August 2009 when NOTHING occurred that wasn't under the control of the Obama Administration and his political party.

Address those facts and point to a relevant fact from 2001 and we'll have something to discuss.

Speaking of today's reality. I find it most interesting that the total deficit number, either the CBO's or the resubmitted one from the White House, both are record setting without a work out plan. Since you aren't even arguing both are wrong, if nothing else it serves to end the debate that "Obama is a fiscal conservative".

Projecting such failure to balance the budget for the next few generations indicates fiscal suicide.

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 5:41:27 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

And by the way, what is the opposite of "Trickle down" economics, anyway. "Destroy Employers" economics? Yeah, that sounds about right, and we're about to find out exactly how well that works, too.

Or rather, doesn't work.



Okay.  How about Clinton's policies, which were to try to grow the economy and balance the budget?  I think you'd be hard pressed to find ANY businesses that wouldn't be happy to trade Bush's economic policies for Clinton's.





_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: President Obama is a fiscal conservative - 9/1/2009 6:29:39 PM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Okay.  How about Clinton's policies, which were to try to grow the economy and balance the budget?  I think you'd be hard pressed to find ANY businesses that wouldn't be happy to trade Bush's economic policies for Clinton's.


Clinton had a Republican majority, Newt Gingrich & the Contract with America, not to mention the Dot Com boom in his favor.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 40
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