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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/30/2009 4:48:17 PM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

ResidentSadist: paraphilias are different than just kinks. Are you proposing that kink is vanilla?

I am not proposing kink is vanilla. Please elaborate how a paraphilia is different than kink?



Sure, paraphilias are psychologically diagnosable conditions while kinks are not inherently so. 

Here's one definition of paraphilias: 

Definition of Paraphilia
Paraphilia: One of several complex psychiatric disorders that are manifested as deviant sexual behavior. For example, in men the most common forms are pedophilia (sexual behavior or attraction toward children) and exhibitionism (exposing one's body in public setting). Other paraphilias include compulsive sexual behavior (nymphomania and priapism), sadism, masochism, fetishism, bestiality, and necrophilia. Treatment may include cognitive behavioral therapy, psychotherapy, behavior modification, antidepressant medications, and medications that alter hormone production, particularly of testosterone. However, the cause and treatment of paraphilias are poorly understood, and treatment is rarely effective. In addition, many professionals prefer not to pathologize sexual behavior that involves only willing adults, even if the behavior might be deemed deviant in mainstream society. In cases where the behavior is potentially criminal, as in pedophilia, treatment is usually offered within the penal system.
www.medterms.comLast Editorial Review: 3/26/1998 2:27:00 PM
 
**My own editorial insert to this is that I would only diagnose a paraphilia if it was detrimental to a person's life while, again, a kink does not inherently meet this criteria. 
 
   Davan

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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/30/2009 4:48:56 PM   
loverly


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i guess if we shed titles and just say Conventional and UNconventional.. that would actually be more to the point and a bit more true.. but i think or believe that when ppl use the word nilla they mean couples or ppl who are more hung up on teachings and beliefs they were brought up with that prevent them from exploring anything out of the "norm" or the Unconventional.
LOL in other words not having much FUN! or Passion mixed with extreme sensations in their lives! beasue it is "wrong " to do this or that... Blech!  poor misguided ppl.. oh wait.. those are the ppl at walk mart who look as sour as a gren apple and walk like they have a srick up their.... well YOU KNOW! lol

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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/30/2009 4:49:29 PM   
Mercnbeth


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for this slave, "vanilla"isn't a term she uses to describe daily activities or people...they are terms used to describe the contrast between different versions of relationship dynamics, sexual proclivities, music, financial instruments, information technology, etc., with value judgement reserved only for how that relates to self...not others or their choices.

Information Technology: 


quote:

vanilla (pronounced vah-NIHL-uh ) is an adjective meaning plain or basic. The unfeatured version of a product is sometimes referred to as the vanilla version. The term is based on the fact that vanilla is the most popular or at least the most commonly served flavor of ice cream. Or, as Eric Raymond, editor of The New Hacker's Dictionary , puts it, the default ice cream.
IBM's BookMaster product, a text publishing system used in mainframe environments, provides a default way, called vanilla, to specify which parts of the book to publish, and another fancier way to specify it, called mocha .
Some Web sites with frames call the simpler version of their site the vanilla version.

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gci213272,00.html




quote:

plain vanillaRefers to the bare minimum of functions that are known to be available in an application or system. Contrast with bells and whistles. 
 
http://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia_term/0,2542,t=plain+vanilla&i=49345,00.asp

 
Business/Financial Investments:



quote:

Vanilla Option:  A category of options which include only those with the most standard components.  A plain vanilla option has an expiration date and straightforward strike price.  American style options and European style options are both categorized as plain vanilla options.  opposite of exotic option.

http://www.investorwords.com/6884/plain_vanilla_option.html


quote:


The standard version of something, such as a bond or option.  A plain vanilla term would not have any special components, unlike an exotic item which is more complex and varied.  One example of this is a plain vanilla option.


 

'plain vanilla' appears in the definitions of the following terms on BusinessDictionary.com

Physics Research:

quote:

While it is true that requirements on ID can be very analysis dependent, the CDF and DØ experience shows that especially in the early stages of the experiment it is very convenient to have generic ("vanilla") definitions of electrons and photons.

http://uscms.org/LPC/lpc_eg/vanilla_id.htm

 
Sex:

quote:

These days... it's all vanilla sex for me.

Larry Flynt


Music:


quote:

When you hear my records today, you hear a vanilla sounding artist with no black inflection, although I was trying to imitate what I heard.

Pat Boone

 
Computer R.P.G.:



quote:


In Vanilla Gamist play, what to compete about (or to achieve, or to be challenged about, if you prefer these terms) is relatively informal, and not too dependent on specified personal tactics. In other words, you can "lose" without it reflecting much on you as a player. It might often have a high degree of randomness, or have a number of small Colorful variables rather than one crucial live-or-die ones, or be pretty easy and no big deal to keep playing after loss conditions apply.

Such play is usually humorous, which isn't hard to understand - if you're playing in a challenge/competition context and losing/failing isn't a big deal, then it's a low-threat "pickup" kind of experience. Examples of designs that lend themselves to this sort of play include Tunnels & Trolls, Toon, and Paranoia. 
 http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=4299.0


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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/30/2009 4:51:30 PM   
Apocalypso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: loverly

i guess if we shed titles and just say Conventional and UNconventional..
That's even worse.

Let's just bite the bullet and call ourselves "the people" and everyone else "not the people".


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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/30/2009 4:54:23 PM   
mnottertail


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I don't know what that list is, but I goddam sure want a picture of me standing next to it. So, if I get the gist of this, you can feed me a pill that makes me quit fantasizing about a slithering pile of amazon, black, lesbian women who want me so they can worship my genitalia...

They got a pill for that? If you don't take it on weekends does the feeling come back? Whats that cost? Does it come in a generic?

Curiously,
Ron

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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/30/2009 5:00:39 PM   
DavanKael


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
I don't know what that list is, but I goddam sure want a picture of me standing next to it. So, if I get the gist of this, you can feed me a pill that makes me quit fantasizing about a slithering pile of amazon, black, lesbian women who want me so they can worship my genitalia...
They got a pill for that? If you don't take it on weekends does the feeling come back? Whats that cost? Does it come in a generic?
Curiously,
Ron


I don't have the MD after my name, Ron, so I don't get to (Or want to) prescribe any pills.  :> 
Simply explaining the diagnostic criteria and relevance for a list such as that which RS posted.  Again, imo, unless the issue is disruptive to the life of the person (Or to someone non-consensually involved), I don't consider such things issues. 
Some things I regard as strange but that has no clinical bearing (However, if someone wanted to fuck the flower arrangement sitting on my dining room table, I might have a question or several regarding why...from both a professional and a personal standpoint).  :>
  Davan
*Who thinks that on a white and silver arrangement (Given to me at an anniversary party yesterday) the bi-products of such an act would not show up terribly well. 

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It's about the person & the bond,not the bondage
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Waiting is

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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/30/2009 5:19:21 PM   
Prinsexx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

The 'is spanking a fetish' thread has bought up some issues.

My vanilla friend likes spanking, yeah I know vanilla folks involved in kink etc. If those sentences make sense then what the heck is vanilla? See I thought vanilla meant those who didn't engage in anything thought to be BDSM (which in turn kinda means that there are no vanilla people therefore maybe the term is used for those who don't recognise the kink)

Yeah ok it is another define this thread but I thought it was quite interesting.

Oh life is about in-groups and out-groups...vanillas are the group that the bdsm group define as not-doing WIITWD.

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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/30/2009 5:24:54 PM   
seababy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: loverly

i guess if we shed titles and just say Conventional and UNconventional..
That's even worse.

Let's just bite the bullet and call ourselves "the people" and everyone else "not the people".



All people are equal, but some people are more equal than others.?

How awesome is this one -
Aelurophilia: a form of zoophilia—sexual attraction to cats

I'm picturing a guy completely clawed up with scratches sitting down at his parents place and introducing "Tiddles" as the new serious love interest.





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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/31/2009 5:03:24 AM   
JustStephen


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In my opinion, 'Vanilla' is the basis of a good flavor that can be added to or just taken on its own. I don't see vanilla as boring or tasteless but as a beginning and perhaps a middle and an end.

I also don't believe that 'vanilla people' in the truest sense of the word cross or overlap a path into our lifestyle. If they do then they are not vanilla. Just because someone has a fetish...eg. sexually turned on by the smell of rubber or leather, does not give them a BDSM heading. A fetish is a fetish and many vanilla people have a fetish or two. Those same people could be horrified and repulsed by the thought of giving/receiving pain and equally so with Power dynamics. These people (again I say in my opinion) are not crossing a line into our world but trying a few added flavors into there otherwise vanilla lifestyle.
To cross the line into D/s or the giving and receiving of pain (even spanking) is to cross into our world

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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/31/2009 7:23:40 AM   
Mercnbeth


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~ Fast Reply ~


Floating around in the pool this weekend we were debating whether a homosexual couple could represent themselves as 'vanilla'. I said that being gay doesn't exclude being 'vanilla; beth disagreed, as did our homosexual guest - but what does he know!?

But I knew of many gay couples, male and female, who considered themselves "straight". They had no interest in any of the "106 things to try before you die", I mean the "106 Paraphilias". They were more 'vanilla' than many hetero couples claiming the distinction, the only difference was they were of the same gender.

In this era of image conscienceless, maybe it should be added to all those other words where definitions are personally assigned. When convenient, depending on the venue and/or audience you can claim kinky-ness, but still rationalize being vanilla for Sunday church services.

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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/31/2009 8:16:10 AM   
Jeptha


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

It's a term used to 'prove' that the speaker is cool and hip, not withstanding all the evidence to the contrary.
I agree that "vanilla" does sound condescending with it's connotation of blandness (and conversely, thereby, the "interestingness" of the speaker who uses the term...)

But I still think it's useful to be able to differentiate between those who share whatever your particular predilection is and those who aren't interested in it.

Are you asserting that such distinctions aren't useful - or that they are inevitably condescending because the whole "us/them" mindset is pretentious?
Or that another term, or perhaps a cute acronym, could be more sensitive?


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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/31/2009 8:25:28 AM   
allthatjaz


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I have to be with you on that one Merc. I do believe that gay people can be vanilla, just as I believe swingers and T-girls and pan sexuals can be vanilla.
Surely we use this word as a code word. Its a quick way of knowing that someone is not into the same sort of stuff that we are. We recently went to a barbeque with some scene related friends. They warned us beforehand to dress down and be careful what we said as there would be vanilla people attending too.
Just as swingers will have a code word to warn other swingers to behave in certain company, we have one too but if I were in a room full of swingers or gays or T-girls I would find in inappropriate to start talking about BDSM and D/s.

To me vanilla just means they are not into the wide range of stuff that we are into. Thats not to say they don't have there own kinky world but its just not the same as ours.


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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/31/2009 8:32:35 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
To me vanilla just means they are not into the wide range of stuff that we are into. Thats not to say they don't have there own kinky world but its just not the same as ours.
*laughs* Sounds good in theory jaz. But I have a question. What measures, specifically, are you using to define "same as ours"? Is it...

Some sort of bondage more elaborate than novelty store cuffs?
Some sort of sadism and/or masochism more extreme than nail scratching on a back?
Some sort of discipline (the word I have yet to understand in all this)?
Some sort of authority dynamic more explicit than a traditional family sort of thing?


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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/31/2009 8:44:39 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

It's a term used to 'prove' that the speaker is cool and hip, not withstanding all the evidence to the contrary.



So what your saying is that people that use the word 'vanilla' are bigging themselves up?

I was speaking to a woman the other day who believed there was no such thing as 'vanilla people'. She refuses to be discreet about what she does, even in front of her children and family because as far as she is concerned her children will grow into it and the rest of her family are already at it!
Some people within this lifestyle really become delusional

I on the other hand think of my entire family as vanilla and I wouldn't start to expect any of them to understand. I certainly don't believe I am better than them by calling them that and I know with certainty that they are not boring.
Because I understand and accept what vanilla is, it enables me to protect myself and others and allows me to identify those people who are likely to be emotionally troubled by what I do and reminds me not to make them unwilling participants.


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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/31/2009 8:54:45 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

It's a term used to 'prove' that the speaker is cool and hip, not withstanding all the evidence to the contrary.



So what your saying is that people that use the word 'vanilla' are bigging themselves up?

I was speaking to a woman the other day who believed there was no such thing as 'vanilla people'. She refuses to be discreet about what she does, even in front of her children and family because as far as she is concerned her children will grow into it and the rest of her family are already at it!
Some people within this lifestyle really become delusional

I on the other hand think of my entire family as vanilla and I wouldn't start to expect any of them to understand. I certainly don't believe I am better than them by calling them that and I know with certainty that they are not boring.
Because I understand and accept what vanilla is, it enables me to protect myself and others and allows me to identify those people who are likely to be emotionally troubled by what I do and reminds me not to make them unwilling participants.

Edited to add an answer leadership 527

anyone who sees themselves as part of BDSM & D/s. We may think its a huge range of stuff but I think its relatively small if you consider all the other kinks that go on outside this sort of environment.





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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/31/2009 9:03:43 AM   
BlissfullPain


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aaahhh Thanks Lally2---n Now I know why there is a vanilla ice cream cone by my name.... ppfft!
Don't laugh ya'll-- I told you I was  a newbie.....


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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/31/2009 9:09:20 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
anyone who sees themselves as part of BDSM & D/s. We may think its a huge range of stuff but I think its relatively small if you consider all the other kinks that go on outside this sort of environment.
This actually makes some sense to me. "Vanilla" is probably impossible to define generically. But if I take it as you did, relative to the speaker in question, then it makes a lot more sense. So then assuming someone agrees that WIITWD is comprised of bondage, discipline, sadism, masochism, dominance and submission, then vanilla in this context becomes "someone who doesn't do any of that".

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/31/2009 9:10:29 AM   
LillyoftheVally


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How many people do not do dominance and submission to some extent? I have yet to see a relationship without that as a back drop

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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/31/2009 9:16:56 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally
How many people do not do dominance and submission to some extent? I have yet to see a relationship without that as a back drop
*chuckles* Damnit, I almost put a qualifier in my post above. Yes, EVERYONE does all of those things to some extent... or at least everyone I know. So I think the question becomes more like, "Do they highlight these facets of their relationship and seek to build on them?"


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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: What is vanilla? - 8/31/2009 9:23:16 AM   
lally2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

How many people do not do dominance and submission to some extent? I have yet to see a relationship without that as a back drop


yes, but the dominance is either ignored or resented, the 'submissive' is often seen either as a doormat or dull and lifeless after years of being worn down (opinion of rellies and neighbours) or, if its all in the early days it results in huge power struggles that often take off in my local supermarket.

it isnt Dominance and submission its domineering and squashed.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 8/31/2009 9:25:05 AM >

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