A Question for the Gun Folks

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SpinnerofTales -> A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 4:49:23 PM)
I remember very clearly, during the presidential campaign, gun right supporters swearing that Obama would be doing everything short of going door to door personally confiscating people's guns. Well, recently, President Obama signed a credit card reform bill. Attached to this bill was a rider, attached by several republicans, that allowed a change in law, permitting loaded and/or concealed weapons into national parks as long as the owners of said gun had a valid permit in the state in which the national park was located. Now, without arguing whether people NEED loaded concealed weapons in national parks (the image of a man standing nose to nose with a grizzly bear and saying "You talking to me? Are you talking to ME?" comes to mind), I have to ask....are any of you willing to admit that Obama actually did something to uphold your ability to keep and bare arms? Are any of you willing to admit that our president actually did something of which you and the NRA should applaud? I'm quite curious.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 5:03:11 PM)
He did something to uphold the Right to bear arms. Then again I was not one of the one's that was promoting this is what he would actually do. In the debate you are refering to, I commented on what he had said in a couple of areas that caused me concern. I also said in that debate that the amount of crimes committed with assault rifles was a very small percentage, and that gun owners should take some kind of safety course to own a handgun (not shotgun or rifle). I may not be one of the people you are targeting with your post though. I own two guns (one handgun and one shotgun), but I figured I was a "gun folk" since I own weapons. It was a state park, but there was an incident this last summer, when I and my family came upon a couple of guys getting drunk on the trail we were hiking, and I did feel safer knowing I had a pistol with me. Didn't need it, but there really are no cops to "protect me" out there, so protection falls to myself. Also, many parks will still cite you if you kill an animal, unless there was no way to retreat. An example would be a rattlesnake in your camp, and it is not directly engandering someone. I suggest anyone taking a firearm into a National Park read up on the regs and laws concerning it, and concerning killing or discharging the weapon in a National Park. Edited: For a spelling/formatting error and to add - I still carried a weapon into National Parks when I owned one. Was camping with friends once when a Park Ranger came by our camp, and he asked if we had any weapons. I raised my hand, and he had a discussion with me off to the side about being responsible with it. This is before it became lawful to carry in a National Park. Big difference between the law on the books, and the reality of being in the wilderness.

Arpig -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 5:49:36 PM)
I can't see why a National (or State) Park would be any different than anywhere else. The Constitution does quite specifically say the right to bear arms "shall not be infringed"....seems to me that covers the national Park issue pretty well.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 6:47:37 PM)
I don't count. I'm a gun nut who has never expected him to take away my guns (of which I own about a dozen). I do expect Reid and Pelosi to try to pass extremely restrictive - and totally irrational - gun legislation during his first term, but I think he's too shrewd and calculating to sign it, because he'll be afraid of how many moderate votes it will cost him in 2012. If he does win a second term, I think it's unlikely any really restrictive legislation would even hit his desk during that term, because I don't think Reid and Pelosi will have the votes anymore. So while I'm very concerned, I'm not terribly worried at this time. And as for the advisability of carrying a gun in bear country - you're damned right I carry one, and I don't care how silly anyone thinks it is. If I'm ever attacked by a bear, my chances with a gun are one hell of a lot better than my chances without one, and that's all the further the argument needs to go, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know why anyone would find it ridiculous to use a powerful handgun to defend one's self against a bear - it's a bear, not a tyrannosaurus rex. People kill bears with handguns all the time. Some states even have handgun seasons for bears, and not just black bears. There are actually people in the West who hunt grizzlies with handguns, and while they may be insane, I've never heard of one losing a gunfight with a bear. It's one of those things that I would definitely rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

rightwinghippie -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 6:58:14 PM)
People up here sometimes loose gunfights with bears. Thier skulls are fucking thick, and they move very fast. Going after a grizzly with a pistol?!?! Good God. Most people I know carry Slugs in a shotgun for a bear attack. I am very glad that the Republicans were able to force Obama to obey on this. I hope they keep it up. But he is too shrewd to go for the guns directly.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 7:23:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie People up here sometimes loose gunfights with bears. Thier skulls are fucking thick, and they move very fast. Going after a grizzly with a pistol?!?! Good God. Most people I know carry Slugs in a shotgun for a bear attack. Yeah, no kidding. Hunting grizzlies with a pistol... jesus. I don't shy away from trouble, but there are some kinds of trouble it just doesn't pay to go looking for. That would be an example. When I used to live in Montana, I felt comfortable carrying a Ruger Blackhawk .44 magnum when I went hiking, but honestly, that was because I didn't know any better then. Now, if I go hiking in grizzly country, it'll be one of the shotguns, loaded with slugs. If the 7.62 AR-15 were fully automatic instead of semi, I'd feel comfortable taking that, with a 20-round clip. 21 .308 rounds in 3 seconds, from a range of a few yards, would probably give me a better chance than squeezing off 2 or 3 12-gauge slugs and hoping one scored for points. I mean, shit, even if only half of them are on target, the bear's going to be pretty much shredded. Might not kill him immediately, but there'd be enough pieces torn off of him I don't think he'd be moving very effectively. But being the AR-15 is only semi-auto, I'd only get a few rounds off, and if I'm only going to get a few rounds I'd rather they were 12-gauge slugs. As it is, though, all my hiking these days is in black bear country. I'm quite comfortable with either my .45 or my .357 - usually the .45, because I have 9 shots instead of 6, and in the extremely unlikely event I would get a chance to reload, it's a lot quicker to slap another clip into the Colt than to reload a revolver. Stopping power is close enough that neither caliber has much advantage over the other; I've got several boxes of Hydrashocks for each pistol. quote: ORIGINAL: rightwinghippie I am very glad that the Republicans were able to force Obama to obey on this. I hope they keep it up. But he is too shrewd to go for the guns directly. He'd like to, though. I do believe he'd like to. I just think he knows better. Too many Americans support the rights of private citizens to own guns, and I don't think he's dumb enough to piss away that many votes. We are going to have to keep a close eye on the guy in his second term, though, if he gets one.

Musicmystery -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 7:34:20 PM)
I don't own a gun. I have backpacked often and have been visited by a few bears. All I needed was simple common sense.

rulemylife -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 7:43:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda And as for the advisability of carrying a gun in bear country - you're damned right I carry one, and I don't care how silly anyone thinks it is. If I'm ever attacked by a bear, my chances with a gun are one hell of a lot better than my chances without one, and that's all the further the argument needs to go, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know why anyone would find it ridiculous to use a powerful handgun to defend one's self against a bear - it's a bear, not a tyrannosaurus rex. People kill bears with handguns all the time. Some states even have handgun seasons for bears, and not just black bears. There are actually people in the West who hunt grizzlies with handguns, and while they may be insane, I've never heard of one losing a gunfight with a bear. Panda, it's time you admit the truth. You really are Stephen Colbert. Colbert's Best Bear Moments

SpinnerofTales -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 7:51:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery I don't own a gun. I have backpacked often and have been visited by a few bears. All I needed was simple common sense. JOKE ALERT: The post you are about to read is a joke. If you cannot recognize it as a joke, please proceed to your nearest sense of humor retailer and purchase one. That said, Music, you hit the nail on the head. Some of us have common sense. The rest need guns.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 7:56:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda And as for the advisability of carrying a gun in bear country - you're damned right I carry one, and I don't care how silly anyone thinks it is. If I'm ever attacked by a bear, my chances with a gun are one hell of a lot better than my chances without one, and that's all the further the argument needs to go, as far as I'm concerned. I don't know why anyone would find it ridiculous to use a powerful handgun to defend one's self against a bear - it's a bear, not a tyrannosaurus rex. People kill bears with handguns all the time. Some states even have handgun seasons for bears, and not just black bears. There are actually people in the West who hunt grizzlies with handguns, and while they may be insane, I've never heard of one losing a gunfight with a bear. Panda, it's time you admit the truth. You really are Stephen Colbert. Colbert's Best Bear Moments So that's Stephen Colbert? I never saw him before. That's funnier than hell... "godless killing machines"! Bear detection kits... is this guy always that funny?

Arpig -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 7:59:46 PM)
quote: is this guy always that funny? No

Level -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 8:00:20 PM)
Cobert is usually pretty funny. He started on Jon Stewart's show.

Arpig -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 8:11:11 PM)
The best segment on his show is "The Word" those can be hilarious...the rest I find pretty dumb...he's no Jon Stewart that's for sure...though his interviews of politicians are pretty good.I remember him getting some guy who was running unopposed to say he did cocaine.

Level -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 8:13:29 PM)
I agree, Arpig, I like Stewart better. Colbert can come across as a one-trick pony at times, too. His bit on "truthiness" is great, though. [:D]

rightwinghippie -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 8:15:30 PM)
Personally, I don't hike with a gun, but people often tell me I am crazy or stupid. If I had a child, I would carry. I had one face off with a black bear, Where I and my 4 month old puppy got rescued by a wolf hybrid (kind of watchdog at the "compound" I was only about 300 yds from my cabin, though down in the creekbed) that was watching us from the woods.. Only one that was sketchy out of 14 encounters over the years.

Arpig -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 8:28:20 PM)
I don't like guns, and I have never encountered a bear, but if I did I am willing to bet I would change my opinion of guns pretty damned quick.

rulemylife -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 8:31:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig The best segment on his show is "The Word" those can be hilarious...the rest I find pretty dumb...he's no Jon Stewart that's for sure...though his interviews of politicians are pretty good.I remember him getting some guy who was running unopposed to say he did cocaine. It's supposed to be dumb. He's doing a take on Bill O'Reilly. You know, Papa Bear, as he refers to him.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 8:51:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery I don't own a gun. I have backpacked often and have been visited by a few bears. All I needed was simple common sense. Sure, and far more often than not, that works fine. Except for a couple of years in Hawaii, I've spent my whole life in bear country, and I spend huge amounts of time in the backcountry. I've gotten within 20 yards of bears on a regular basis, without them knowing I'm there, and never felt any fear at all. In all those years, I have yet to be devoured, even a single time. But shit still happens. People using common sense are sometimes attacked, too. As an example... I had a very close encounter with a bear a couple of months ago. I was camping in a national forest, and the dumpster was only about 40 yards from my tent. A bear decided to go dumpster diving, and I figured I didn't particularly want a garbage-eating bear roaming around my tent all night, and scared him away from a safe distance. After I bounced a few rocks off the side of the dumpster, he got the message, and I didn't hear from him again that night. All worked out fine; no problem. But a few days later, when I got back to the Cities, I saw on the news that just 30 miles from where I was camping - and at pretty much the same moment that I was driving my bear away from the dumpster - a woman in Siren, Wisconsin was attacked by a bear while taking out the garbage. She just walked out into her yard in the twilight, and a bear came out of the woods between the house and the garage and pounced her. She survived by playing dead, but she was torn up a bit, and quite badly rattled by the event. So you never know. Shit happens. They're wild animals. If you spend a lot of time in the area where they live, the chances that they're going to do some sort of wild-animal shit to you increases. Still extremely unlikely, but as long as there's a chance, why not take measures to improve your odds? You carry a poncho for when it rains, mosquito repellent for when it mosquitoes - why not a gun for when it bears? It's just a gun. I can't imagine any good reason for not taking one if you're in bear country.

philosophy -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 8:54:56 PM)
....surely, as a Panda, you can claim biological kinship and have the bears ignore you.......[:D]

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: A Question for the Gun Folks (8/30/2009 8:59:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy ....surely, as a Panda, you can claim biological kinship and have the bears ignore you.......[:D] Well, the black and white spots work against me. American bears just think I'm a cow, and reach for the steak sauce.

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