RE: TPE

RE: TPE (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion

Message

Acer49 -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 1:07:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist Reality already dictates that being human we inherit far more than 10 limits. In line with reality, if I tell my slave to "fly" she will not be able to whether there are negotiated limits or not. However, a good slave once said, "with a running start, I can give you 2 seconds of flight". There are no limits in TPE. Anything otherwise is semantic word games. As Master I am in control as if I own my slave in the same way I own any property. My car does not negotiate limits with me when I ask it to turn left or stop, neither should my slave. My car has real life limitations like my slave. If I abuse it or push it past its' limits, it will break. However, I am smart and responsible enough not to abuse my property, living or otherwise. My car can't fly for more than a few seconds either by the way. If "limits" are a concern to the point you feel you must mention or negotiate for them you are either not suited for TPE or poorly paired with someone you don't trust. Either way, "limits" should be a clue to both parties that something is amiss. Well your opinion is quite clear, but is your opinion the norm or the exception?

Acer49 -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 1:10:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah quote: ORIGINAL: Acer49 Legal issues aside. If you, as the Dom desired her to whore herself out, would, because you are in a TPE, have that right to demand this? Hard to Answer this question. I don't see anything Morally wrong with Prostitution I see it as Honest Pay for something in high desire. I also don't like other cats in my sand box so there is a conflict of interest here. As for having the right to Demand, I think you have this ideal backward. They have given me the capasity to expect it of them by surrendering comeplete control to me. Should I expect it of them and they choose not to do it then one could state that there was no TPE in place. Again this is an Argument in semantics as far as I am concerned because where as I don't see anything wrong with the aspect of money for sex I would not want my girls doing it. I do know that both of my girls would if required it of them but they also know I would have a damn good reason as to why I would want such a thing. They also know that I would only allow it in such a situation that they were as safe as is possible in that capasity. Steel Well apply the same statement to any of the others you listed, would the conclusion be the same

Malkinius -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 1:24:28 AM)
Greetings Acer..... It is real simple. There are no subs when dealing with TPE. There are only slaves. Subs don't do TPE because they maintain control over the relationship. Any TPE slave with hard limits is a sub with a title. They are not a slave. TPE or TPT (Total Power Transfer) for those who want a step away from the softer side of enslavement and something more like what should be one, does not allow limits in a slave. It allows the Owner to have whatever limits they want. That is the total part of it. Total means everything. It doesn't leave room for Everything But.... Be well.... Malkinius

ResidentSadist -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 2:25:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Acer49 quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist Reality already dictates that being human we inherit far more than 10 limits. In line with reality, if I tell my slave to "fly" she will not be able to whether there are negotiated limits or not. However, a good slave once said, "with a running start, I can give you 2 seconds of flight". There are no limits in TPE. Anything otherwise is semantic word games. As Master I am in control as if I own my slave in the same way I own any property. My car does not negotiate limits with me when I ask it to turn left or stop, neither should my slave. My car has real life limitations like my slave. If I abuse it or push it past its' limits, it will break. However, I am smart and responsible enough not to abuse my property, living or otherwise. My car can't fly for more than a few seconds either by the way. If "limits" are a concern to the point you feel you must mention or negotiate for them you are either not suited for TPE or poorly paired with someone you don't trust. Either way, "limits" should be a clue to both parties that something is amiss. Well your opinion is quite clear, but is your opinion the norm or the exception? That is a most valid question and I have been studying the answer since 1971. I have watched many meanings change or get lost over time. I suggest you verify the current published definition of terms to see if mine is in accord with the norm. Total Power Exchange - wiki I have had the great pleasure of participating in public discussions with leaders in our community and been exposed to a wide scope of perspectives on TPE, M/s, ownership, authority, internal enslavement and the oxy moron of consensual slavery. As far as TPE goes, the answer lies in the very definition of the words describing the relationship style. No matter how ugly or politically incorrect, there is one single word that describes it fully. I will admit that TPE is “totalitarianism” if you guys will. “Totalitarian rule recognizes no limits to its authority . . . Totalitarianism is generally characterized by the coincidence of authoritarianism and ideology. . .” - wiki Total Power Exchange just wouldn’t be totalitarian if it recognized limits to its authority imposed by those it is supposed to have total authority over. You just can’t have “negotiated limits” or “hard limits” and still have a TPE. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If the authority figure in a TPE chooses not to require murder, rape, turd eating or anything else, whether it would or would not harm his property, it is at their voluntary discretion not the demands of the subordinate. Whether the authority’s motive be mercy, love, intellect or greed because they don’t want to damage their property so they can continue to use it is irrelevant. The point is that it is their voluntary choice, not a limit imposed by the subordinate. Here in CollarMeLand, definitions and labels are often unreasonably challenged by infantile logic and semantic gymnastics. I am sure that someone will claim TPE “means whatever the people in the relationship want it to mean”. They can just kiss my ass. http://www.collarchat.com/m_2373559/mpage_1/tm.htm

Acer49 -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 2:30:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Everyone has hard limits, things that will harm them and they cannot allow and still respect themselves and the other person. If the two people agree on these things, they are compatible. If one lives for breathplay and the other is asthmatic, then they aren't compatible. If instead of saying ten hard limits, you used the words ten medical conditions, would that change how you viewed the subject? For me personally, I have always honored limits and safe words and that will never change regardless if I am in a TPE relationship or not.

littlewonder -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 3:38:06 AM)
If both of them have hard limits that match..yes.

lally2 -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 4:26:08 AM)
if in the process of negotiation/getting to know, these limits are discussed then it is down to the M to decide, as others have said whether those limits will affect his enjoyment of his slave. there might well be reasons for those limits,such as a * fear of the cane because she was badly beaten by one, or, * she cant do rape play because she was raped once and the psychological fall out would be immense. * she cant bear spiders and he has a pet tarantula he likes to encorporate * the thought of bisexuality makes her feel sick * she cant be suspended by her arms because she has a shoulder injury * and so on.... he might feel he would want to explore these areas at a later date, once trust in him has become absolute. if he tells her that and she runs screaming from the room then no, she probably isnt the slave for him, if she considers and agrees that if a time comes where her trust is absolute and he takes it gently then she will try her best, then yes, she probably is. a slave doesnt automatically mean no limits, but at the get go, setting up a realistic understanding of her fears and concerns means that he can at least know where to tread lightly or not atall to start with or indeed never ever. once the relationship gets going, with these clear understandings in place their chance of survival is better, the slave can relax into TPE and enjoy serving her Master and her Master can enjoy plotting a de-sensitizing programme [:)]

RavenMuse -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 4:29:19 AM)
Compatability is important.... however I would see a girl stating those compatability issues as 'hard limits' of hers as not compatable with approaching Me for TPE.... The attitude would be wrong (For Me... another Master maybe accept it). Seeking a Master for whom those things wasn't a major issue is one thing, one approach, one attitude.... 'Hard limit' setting is an act of keeping hold of an area of control and is quite a different attitude.

Whenready -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 4:37:41 AM)
Malkinius beat me to it, but it does seem to be a semantic issue. "Total" implies "no limits". 99% total - isn't. There may well be a good relationship even taking account of the 10 hard limits (and Steel's point of "don't care about those anyway") but I would hesitate to call it TPE as I understand it.

lally2 -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 5:07:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse Compatability is important.... however I would see a girl stating those compatability issues as 'hard limits' of hers as not compatable with approaching Me for TPE.... The attitude would be wrong (For Me... another Master maybe accept it). Seeking a Master for whom those things wasn't a major issue is one thing, one approach, one attitude.... 'Hard limit' setting is an act of keeping hold of an area of control and is quite a different attitude. compatibility is everything and within that compatibility you can have TPE. just because niether one of them wants to eat poo with their two veg doesnt mean you have taken a weaker TPE position. it simply means they dont have a need for that. i think hard limit setting is keeping a level of control that tends toward submission rather than enslavement, handing over that control to another person is all part of the slaves psyche anyway. but im not going to hand myself over to someone who wants me to fuck dogs and eat poo just because as a slave type i shouldnt have any limits whatsoever. an ideology is fine when everyone involved is at the same level of understanding. but surely when you have a slave who is new to things and isnt sure and is a little scared of some things, giving her the opportunity to voice those concerns can only add to her confidence - as responsible, caring Masters, isnt that how you would choose to treat the creature who wishes to give everything. (asked generally, not directly at you RM)

LillyoftheVally -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 5:20:20 AM)
See its all about terms, concerns, desires, needs, wants not limits see, so now I can have a list of them and happily still be TPE because I give the dominant the right to choose if he wants to honour them, if not, great ... next, but then I meet someone who agrees with my 'flexible' list and bang TPE

RavenMuse -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 5:30:16 AM)
lally, I think you missed My point.... the attitude is regarding who has control..... same effect different mindset. "I fear that so it is MY hard limit" is someone who's attitude is about retaining control.... "I fear that so I seek a Master who can reasure Me that He will take that fear into account"... is an attitude I find compatable. When My girl and I got together there was no negotiation, no horse trading.... it was a 'this is what I offer take it or leave it" package deal. she gave Me the information on her needs, wants, difficultys and asperations without holding onto control of them. My hard limits covered the basics and I have a duty of care for My property, thus anything likely to cause her harm is handled with care. We have been slowly working on her terror of singletails for two years now, two years to get to the point where I can use it lightly without her freaking. she trusted Me and My approach, she didn't need to keep the control herself..... had she done so We would not have been compatable. Wrong attitude.

Aileen1968 -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 5:35:32 AM)
I'm evolving into a tpe and there are limits. They are both mutually agreed upon. No one touches me except for him. Ever. The other is that my kids and their needs trump everything. Other than that he has complete control of all aspects of my life. What ever he tells me to do I do to the best of my ability. Doesn't mean I'll always be successful, but I'll try like hell. He's rational and realistic and knows that too.

lally2 -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 5:37:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse lally, I think you missed My point.... the attitude is regarding who has control..... same effect different mindset. "I fear that so it is MY hard limit" is someone who's attitude is about retaining control.... "I fear that so I seek a Master who can reasure Me that He will take that fear into account"... is an attitude I find compatable. When My girl and I got together there was no negotiation, no horse trading.... it was a 'this is what I offer take it or leave it" package deal. she gave Me the information on her needs, wants, difficultys and asperations without holding onto control of them. My hard limits covered the basics and I have a duty of care for My property, thus anything likely to cause her harm is handled with care. We have been slowly working on her terror of singletails for two years now, two years to get to the point where I can use it lightly without her freaking. she trusted Me and My approach, she didn't need to keep the control herself..... had she done so We would not have been compatable. Wrong attitude. no, i didnt miss Youre point, i completely agree with You on everything You said. xx

RavenMuse -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 5:47:14 AM)
Ah then t'was simply Me misreading what you said [:)] The one thing I didn't misread however, and am likewise in compleat agreement is communication. How can I learn the girl, learn her needs, her fears, learn who she is and how to care for My property without effective communication. The very reason My girl could trust Me to the extent of giving up total control is through that communication. she learned that her needs fitted within My limits, thereby meaning she didn't need any. A girl not having limits doesn't mean there are no limits within the relationship.

lally2 -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 6:04:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse Ah then t'was simply Me misreading what you said [:)] The one thing I didn't misread however, and am likewise in compleat agreement is communication. How can I learn the girl, learn her needs, her fears, learn who she is and how to care for My property without effective communication. The very reason My girl could trust Me to the extent of giving up total control is through that communication. she learned that her needs fitted within My limits, thereby meaning she didn't need any. A girl not having limits doesn't mean there are no limits within the relationship. absolutely - for a slave to be able to sink into absolute enslavement she/he needs to feel complete trust. after that there is no need for limits and the TPE can flow uninterrupted and unimpeded. from a slaves pov, her greatest desire is to give her Master everything he wishes from her, to never ever say no (anathama) to never ever have limits (anathama), but for her to literally sink into that pure vulnerability that is absolute submission (a wonderful place to be) she needs to know that in that vulnerable state He is looking after her. if the ideology is that as a slave she has no right to communicate her scaredy things at the begining, for Him to get a flavour for the person He is to Master then how can she be sure that she isnt stepping into the hands of a madman. the psychology of communication for a slave is that if she finds herself talking to a responsible, reasonable human being she can begin to relax and let go. from that stand point alone You already have her enslavement at Youre fingertips.

RavenMuse -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 6:15:14 AM)
The 'no questions' bullshit is anathema to Me, full stop. Not only at the start but questions are a natural part of My working Dynamic. If My girl doesn't know something is she supposed to guess? assume? Read My mind? No, she asks as that is the best way to ensure she has the information she needs to do things the way I require.

lally2 -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 6:19:38 AM)
i think the trouble is that You (and by that i mean all Dominants) know that they are trustworthy and responsible and come from a stand point of ethical sincerity but until someone gets to know You how can they possibly make that judgement. the fact that the onus is on the Master as much as the slave to prove their sincerity is where things seem to be getting a little confusing for some people. aileen has brought up the valid point that her kids come first, absolutely and so they should - but more than that, she as their mother needs to maintain her emotional equilibrium for those kids. right there is a negotiable element that her Master is happy to take on board. that doesnt make it any less TPE as it evolves, in my view, simply open, responsible and realistic.

SteelofUtah -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 6:21:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Acer49 Which, if I am understanding you correctly if a sub/slave has limits that I Dom does not wish to honor, then that sub/slave could not be in a TPE relationship Not with me. However perhaps another Dominant who had no issues with those limits. I am beginning to think you are looking for a reason to catch a paerson in a Paradoxial Argument. The Thing is the concept of TPE only matters to the people who are IN THE TPE. See we get to define for ourselves what is acceptable and what is not. Your Total is not My Total. You having a girl who will not do X activity is different from me having a girl who will not do X Activity. This is part of the reason that people argue this point of what is and what isn't a TPE and that is because what you desire is different from what I desire. The only thing that matters is that the two people involved are accepting of their own limitations. I could not own a woman in any capasity that could not accept that I require total obedience to my will. I believe like I said in Total Authority, I want to be able to dictate actions require expected results this is her giving me total authority over her life. However LONG before we ever got to this point... we met and we talked and we got to know each other and we learned what I expected and what she was willing to give and we determined if we were a match and if she could actually be in a sitiuation where no matter what I required of her she would be willing to give because she knew what I was looking for and what I wanted out of such relationship. The Girls I chose, they are willing to do whatever I ask of them, this is because they know I have no desire to ask of them things that they would have to walk away from if I asked them. Everyone has limits. EVERYONE. The point in a TPE is finding someone whose limits are not in direct conflict with what it is that you would require as their Master. Steel

RavenMuse -> RE: TPE (8/31/2009 6:36:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lally2 aileen has brought up the valid point that her kids come first, absolutely and so they should - but more than that, she as their mother needs to maintain her emotional equilibrium for those kids. right there is a negotiable element that her Master is happy to take on board. that doesnt make it any less TPE as it evolves, in my view, simply open, responsible and realistic. Again it is a matter of attitude... Last time I was dealing with a girl who had a child I made it clear from day one that the childs needs came first. Effectivly that in being a good mother and putting the needs of the child first she was doing as I required. If she had felt the need to lay down her terms... her control, then she would have been dealing with the wrong Dominant. One worth trusting will already account for the kids needs without needing the girl to tell Him "How its going to be".

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.046875