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ORIGINAL: catize

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  I find myself less capable of maintaining a staunch declarative position with tasks when I encounter a temperamental attitude towards doing them. Realistically speaking, to say that I don't expect my s-type to necessarily like what she is being told to do is not also a carte blanche to display irreverent behavior while still doing it. 

This line of reasoning would cause me to consider improving my acting skills. Both R. and S. are fully aware of the few things I don’t like because I have told them so.  In our relationships, this goes under the heading of open communication.    I’m not interested in faking how I feel about a task or rule or command.  I can hate the task/rule/command yet find a satisfaction in my obedience despite the fact it isn’t easy for me and also because they expect it anyway. 
 
edited for an errant letter s.     

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247
Leadership, thanks for understanding. for the most part, your position is clear to me as well...carol must always obey you in order for you to consider her to be your slave, otherwise she is your submissive wife or something else, but not property. and that leads to my question for you...in your personal view, does disobedience negate slavery? in other words, if a slave makes the choice to disobey their Master, whatever the reason, are they in some way expressing that they do not wish to truly be a slave/give up complete control?

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ORIGINAL: agirl

I am not always obedient, I never WILL always be obedient.

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ORIGINAL: agirl

For me , the overall concept of obedience is that it makes *sense* (define that how you will)

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ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

Obey. . . yes.

What if you ask for something that is harmful or damaging?
Is temp damage ok?
Is perma damage ok?

If we get all technical about it, a nice rough paddling, when applied frequently, causes perma damage to the nerve bundles. So will criss crossing your whip strokes. Some of the pain reduction is truly from a physiological rising pain threshold but at some point, “leather ass” sets in and that is from the physical damage of deadening nerves.

My point is that when it comes to spanking some ass and doing perma damage, that is usually OK because both parties want it. But what if the authority figure wants a degree of damage the subordinate does not want?

I promise to tell you my answer later. In the meantime, what is your answer?

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ORIGINAL: leadership527

Yup, you get my position also. Similar in some ways yet different in others to your own as I've found in the past.

The answer to your question is both loaded and not entirely obvious. So disclaimer first... in my opinion only. Now... the answer to your question is a qualified yes. The way I see it, Carol has made a choice to be mine and all that that entails. I would consider direct disobedience (and remember that I do not count in that all the normal human failings.. forgetfullness, mistakes in communication, etc.) clear testimonial that she does not belong to me in her own head. If I do not believe she is my slave within her own head, then no actions she could make would change the truth of the situation.

Tempering that viewpoint greatly though is the fact that what I own is a human. And humans take time to absorb change. So for instance, Carol being monogamous to the bone and me demanding the right to have her pleasure sexually whoever I tell her to. Given how deeply her convictions run on that one, I do not expect to be able to make core changes in her overnight. That particular example is a work in progress (and I'm in no rush since I don't actually have any plans to share her with anyone). In the end, I expect to have that authority, but I fully expect it to take somewhere between a few more weeks and a few more months to process that change. My expectation of her is that she will always follow my lead. But some of the places I wish to lead are going to take longer to get to than others.

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ORIGINAL: chellekitty

fast reply...

i have been taught to protect the property (myself especially) first even if that means disobedience to the particular order and even if that means protecting myself from the D-type(s)... it is obedience to the first rule...paradoxically my disobedience usually lies in not taking care of myself...usually trying to do too much resulting in seizures and/or fibromyalgia pain or not letting the D-type know of a psychological problem that causes a break down...

on the other hand, when faced with my disobedience (read: when caught because i tell on myself) i am so overwhelmed with regret and shame that i do not need to be punished by someone else; i do a much worse job than anyone else could...so in an effort not to go down that road again because i don't need to feel the extreme highs and lows anymore like the out of control bipolar i was, i try to obey at all times, even when that means resting or going to meetings when there are chores to be done and letting myself be transparent...

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

i may be screaming on the inside...but on the outside i had better be calm and focused and of course, obedient.

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ORIGINAL: sexisubi

i would completely not disobey deliberately. for a couple of reasons, 1, it makes them happy and that really does make me happy i love seeing joy in their eyes cause it always puts a smile on my face that wont go away. 2, i hate punishment cause i cant block out any pain to feel disappointment none of these things are fun 3, is what my dom told me to do going to kill me? no. so just do it, try it, rock it, if  need be cry during it doesnt mean one cant do it.  4, what if there is something asked that i do not agree to the point where it effects my personal beliefs or opinions, i have never complained before i have never asked not to do something before.i would ask for this one time of my master to not make me do this one thing because it goes against my beliefs or whatever it is, most likely they will say yes. also if it effected my personal beliefs, then ill take the punishment proudly  if they say no. 

the chances of a Dom asking a submissive to go against their beliefs are rare, or never asked but in the case they do, i will use my obedience to my advantage if they let me.and if they dont then ill take the punishment and move forward. but this is -only- if it goes against my personal beliefs dreams and ambitions.

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

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ORIGINAL: agirl

I am not always obedient, I never WILL always be obedient.

So, if you can do X task and choose not to, doing so in a framework where you are essentially weighing the scales in your head for your own benefit and decide you'd rather just take the consequences, then I'm a bit confused as to where the authority is.

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ORIGINAL: eyesopened

I obey. Period.  If I act and fail, that is not disobedience.  But I obey for two reasons.  First, the thought of displeasing my Master is so horrible to me, that it really is in my best interest to obey.  Second, I recognize His Authority.  To me, that is really the first and last of our M/s relationship.

Who among us when seeing those flashing lights in our rear-view mirror would say to themselves "Gee, it's really not convenient to pull over right now, I have to go to work."  No.  We pull over and right smartly too because of one simple fact, we recognize that the police have the authority.  So in my way of thinking, any s-type who wants to wiggle out of any command, doesn't recognize the authority of his or her D-type.  Without the recognition of authority, there is no D/s M/s relationship.

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ORIGINAL: agirl

With whom I'm answerable to.

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ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

You know I agree, but I also think it works both ways.

It is a massive turn off for me if a dominant tells me to do something, discusses it and then wavers and changes their mind when there really is no reason to. If the decision started off being a strong one that then becomes something that can change at the drop of a hat it totally throws me.

I do think likening D/s relationships to child like behaviour is a good analogy at times, that often the sub will search for the boundaries, if they find there aren't any or that they are easy to push then the relationship will be unfulfilling for both the sub will not have the freedom to submit and the dom won't have the power to dominate.

I think what I am saying is that the sub needs to know it is important to obey.

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Obedience is not the primary focus of our relationship. I'm not a servant, I'm much more of a pet.

The primary focus of our relationship is emotional transparency and you can't have that and obedience even when you hate what you are doing without damaging the emotional relationship. Or at least we can't. Even short term resentment will cause problems. Either he knows I'm spending that time disliking him, or I have to become nontransparent.

Since he isn't a sadist, he objects to knowing I dislike him and since the core of the relationship is transparency me occluding it damages the core.

We have found that if I obey when I hate the task, and therefore for however short a period of time hate him, that it isn't good for us.

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

i may be screaming on the inside...but on the outside i had better be calm and focused and of course, obedient.

This speaks directly to what I'm getting at with reference to temperament (at least as far as my expectations go).

I do always leave room for the s-type to approach with concerns, and normally this should be the potential sharing of information that I may need (and not be aware of) in order to adequately make the choices I think are best.

When I say that there is no room for discussion or argument over the order, it's not saying there is no room for the sharing of emotional thoughts about it...but that sharing absolutely shouldn't come paired with the expectation that sharing that discomfort will magically tip the scales so that I will/must change my mind on the task.

If the s-type is treating the freedom to share feelings on orders/tasks as a bargaining chip to get out of what they're being told to do, then I'm not seeing a mindset actually conducive to obedience/ownership/slavery.

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ORIGINAL: daddysprop247

Daddy would view this as a mindset not conducive with submissiveness...and since he only desires submissive property, it would not be an acceptable mindset for any slave or even any partner of his. however one thing observation in both the on and offline "mainstream" D/s and BDSM worlds has taught me...not every Master wants a submissive slave. mostly obedient, yes, but submissive-natured, no. so for those types questioning, "playful" manipulation, bratty behavior, etc...could be perfectly acceptable.

i also wanted to comment on what you stated about any slave of yours having room to share concerns and emotional issues with any command or expectation you put forth. this is something i personally feel is important in long-term M/s dynamics, especially when there is mutual love involved. for the health of the relationship, the slave does need the freedom to express their true thoughts/feelings/worries at some point, in a respectful and appropriate manner of course. my Master gives me such freedom, but not at the moment an order is given or a time when i am expected to serve. in the moment i need to buck up and simply obey. however at some later time when his ear is open to me, i am to share whatever feelings or concerns i may have about anything...and i am comforted by knowing that this sharing only helps him to know and understand me better, and has no bearing on whether or not he will have his will. in other words, it gives me no power, and i rather like that.