quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Carol and I practice my own personal iterpretation of TPE. Within that construct, there is no "disobedience". There is only "obey" or "not mine". Frankly, I think that is true independent of whether she approves of the commands or not. Carol is a deeply monogamous woman, but if I commanded her to pleasure another person, I would expect her to do it. Failure would be the end of her slave collar. Such is the nature of "total" in my book.

However, in my interpretation, the world of D/s is a lot less clear cut. There I can see negotiations, both large and small, occuring on a potentially frequent basis depending on what worked best for the couple. But as soon as boundaries are allowed at all, then they must be discussed and maintained.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

An unhappy Domme is an unhappy Pyroaquatic.
A happy Domme is a happy Pyroaquatic.


This is not a difficult concept.... I do not see how one can confuse this. Obedience does not have to be a mindless drone thing either.

"Psshaw.... okay"
*scoots off*

quote:

ORIGINAL: beargonewild

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

This isn't from a personal situation.  It was just something I was thinking about after replying on another thread.

Every once in a while I'll read things on one thread or another and it will make Me wonder if the concept of obedience gets lost sometimes.  I'm not talking about breaking a sub's hard limits or commanding a sub to do something that they find immoral or perhaps it's illegal.  In My mind, if we're staying out of those kinds of territories, the answer should be rather simple.  If I'm the Dominant, and I have a submissive, if I give a command, I expect it to be obeyed.  Sure, it can be discussed if there's an issue about it, but when I've made My decision, it's time for My submissive to yield to My authority.

Does it mean that a sub will always like what I've told him to do?  No.

Does it mean that he's always going to enjoy an activity?  No.

Do I expect him to obey anyway?  Yes.

I'm wondering how other people feel about the concept of obedience in D/s.

Obedience should be one of the cornerstones to a D/s based relationship, yet the one issue which needs to be seriously consider is the human factor. It isn't  cut and dried where because a submissive doesn't obey  which causes their dom kicks them out on the curb so to speak for that action. The submissives are not perfect and yes, the idiosyncrasy of human nature will have then not obeying on occasion and the same also applies to the dominant person. This is different to a sub who chronically disobeys and isn't taking responsibility for their part in that relationship.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

There really isn't a such thing as partial, delayed, or rerouted obedience. Either one does what another required or they don't. It's pretty black and white. That being said, I think the number of truly detestible commands given should be kept to a minimum and serve some greater purpose than just a power trip. Okay, so sometimes it can be a power trip, but I digress. Honestly, hard or unsavory demands are a great loyalty and trust builder, but in general, if it does not really do much to benefit the submissive, dominant, or the relationship as a whole, there is not enough positive reinforcement to make it worthwhile. Pleasing my partner is certainly a great incentive, but that can't be my only motivation all the time and especially in difficult circumstances. My partner currently has me eating three times a day. It is hard and it feels like a total waste of my time, but he and I both know it is for my own good and that I wasn't hitting the mark without it being an order. I get to please him in doing this and my energy and over all health might get a boost too. That's a good trade off for the difficulty.

I will step back just a bit and say sometimes there can be incomplete obedience, but there'd better be a darn good reason for it. When I was still learning about my partner, I would stop at certain points in obeying because I was not sure of a preference or details. I only did so when they seemed like he would find them important enough to be bothered if I just randomly chose and chose wrong. I would wait to ask about those things and proceed accordingly. In my mind, I also saw it as me doing what he asked MY way instead of the path he wanted me to take. I didn't hold off doing what I could. To me, that was not acceptable and I knew he felt the same. I also did not try to obey halfheartedly by just skipping over parts that were difficult or unclear. This was me doing the best I knew to do in the situation. He helped me find more effective ways of coping in such situations in the future, but most of the time I no longer have any confusion like I did early on. If I did, I know how he wants me to handle it. Time is a big help in this area.

As long as I know what I am to obey and how to proceed, I should hope my partner never finds me doing anything other than obeying. I would disappoint him and I would disappoint myself. It seems simple enough to me.

lovingpet

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I have a very strong hunch we are pretty much on the same page.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

From my point of view "obedience" in a ds relationship isn't always so cut and dried.

Ok, so you've (generic) discussed hard limits, illegal acts, immoral acts, you think you're pretty much compatible on those fronts, therefore there should be no reason for disobedience.  It all looks so good on paper, but it really doesn't always pan out perfectly in the long-term.

I've been in situations where I couldn't (wouldn't ?) obey.  It was a horrible feeling like I was being torn between what he wanted, and what I discovered were "boundaries" for myself that I absolutely could not cross.  Sometimes no matter how much you discuss or how well you plan, things come up that you didn't previously consider.  It's a relationship, it's evolving, both dom and sub are learning about themselves, hopefully stretching limits, possibley finding others that they didn't know existed.  Maybe the dom pushed too far, maybe the sub had a flashback of something, maybe this and maybe that, both parties learned something. If each party gives the other a little bit of slack, while solid in the trust that neither is trying to shirk their responsibility or commitment to the relationship, then there is some room for the occasional faulter.   Complete obedience, to me, is a concept, something to strive for,  the optimal situation even, but it never turns out to be a perfect absolute 100% of the time, not that I've seen anyway.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I like it when we save each other typing time! 

quote:

If I'm the Dominant, and I have a submissive, if I give a command, I expect it to be obeyed. Sure, it can be discussed if there's an issue about it, but when I've made My decision, it's time for My submissive to yield to My authority.

Does it mean that a sub will always like what I've told him to do? No.

Does it mean that he's always going to enjoy an activity? No.

Do I expect him to obey anyway? Yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Your job is to find things you can both enjoy or the submissive can at least respect.

quote:

  I find myself less capable of maintaining a staunch declarative position with tasks when I encounter a temperamental attitude towards doing them. Realistically speaking, to say that I don't expect my s-type to necessarily like what she is being told to do is not also a carte blanche to display irreverent behavior while still doing it. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Your job is to find things you can both enjoy or the submissive can at least respect.

Might I suggest your focus is in the wrong place.... she need not enjoy what I have told her to do, she is in submission to Me, she enjoys pleasing Me, obedience pleases Me. As for respect, it is ME she respects not whatever activity I set her to doing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
I can hate the task/rule/command yet find a satisfaction in my obedience despite the fact it isn’t easy for me and also because they expect it anyway.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

For all of those inquiring minds (and keeping within the theme of obedience).....

it is a plano-convex magnifying lens on top of a reflective hard drive disc.... which creates a makeshift parabolic mirror.
I am reflecting myself in my web-cam software.

Ahhh.... introspection. It seems time to change my photo.