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RE: Obey - 9/3/2009 9:19:27 PM   
kdsub


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I don’t know where you are looking for definitions but Healthline and Merriam Webster describe it as below and I would say that covers someone who will live in fear and pain without freedom and happyness or selfworth...sounds about right to me.

A mental disorder or mental illness is a psychological or behavioral pattern that occurs in an individual and is thought to cause distress or disability that is not expected as part of normal development or culture.

Or

Mental illness has been defined as a behavioral or psychological syndrome that is associated with distress or disability (ability to function normally in activities of daily living) or with an increased risk of pain, disability, loss of freedom, or death.

I make no clinical claims or intimate knowledge ...simply my opinion as I understand the definitions and situation...I make no judgments or condemnations of lifestyles.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/3/2009 9:23:09 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to NihilusZero)
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RE: Obey - 9/3/2009 9:35:49 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don’t know where you are looking for definitions but Healthline and Merriam Webster describe it as below and I would say that covers someone who will live in fear and pain without freedom and happyness or selfworth...sounds about right to me.

That's a convenient reqording of what you originally said when your prerequisites for "mentally ill" were:

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I only asked because if you are happy and fulfilled that means your Dom is providing for your needs...as he should.

If you were not and still stayed with him then you would be mentally ill and outside of the meaning of the lifestyle.

Fear and pain are irrelevant considering the sorts of dynamics some slaves enjoyable engage in. As is freedom. the entirety of D/s would be pulled into a nether void of clinical psychosis if you branded everyone who chooses to relinquish freedom as incapacitated.

And happiness and self worth and understandably nebulous areas to anyone with any kind of psychological background.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

A mental disorder or mental illness is a psychological or behavioral pattern that occurs in an individual and is thought to cause distress or disability that is not expected as part of normal development or culture.

"Is thought to cause distress or disability".

And, by that definition, you and every single one of use for having deviant kinks and liftyle preferences actively choose to be outside of "normal development" in our relationships.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Mental illness has been defined as a behavioral or psychological syndrome that is associated with distress or disability (ability to function normally in activities of daily living) or with an increased risk of pain, disability, loss of freedom, or death.

Butch


I'm sure I know how it's colloquially defined. And psychological practiotioners also understand that, even excusing the swimming through seas of gray that psychology is, it is a soft science defined most often by self-diagnosis. The very catalyst (of any validity) for a mental disorder would be to actively choose things which one would not otherwise genuinely want. All the rest (inclusive of your appraisal of prop's dynamic) is armchair conjecture.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees


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(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Obey - 9/3/2009 10:49:39 PM   
kdsub


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You should reread the post I was addressing...it matches the definition quite closely... I do not want to repeat the post here because she may not like us discussing her words... in fact I will not comment on it again. She stated she understood my meaning and that is all that is important.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Obey - 9/4/2009 7:04:03 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
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quote:

ORIGINAL: abuddingdom

Amen, LadyPact. To each and every word of your OP......

I'm blessed with an obedient submissive.  She didn't obey 100% in our earlier days. There were some growing pains , to be sure, but since committing to me she's been consistently  and completely obedient. It's a cornerstone of our relationship and I dont see how a successful D/s relationship could even survive for any length of time, much less flourish, without obedience asa cornerstone - expected by one  & given willingly and completely by the other (other than negotiated limits, unsafe or immoral orders, etc). I was proud a couple weeks ago when we were out with a Domme we both respect(and, just as importantly, like)who noted to me, privately when I sent my pretty one on an errand, how obedient she is. I replied - sincerely - that I'm not only  a fortunate but  a proud Sir,  adding that she'll do " almost anything I tell her to do". My pretty one occasionally asks for clarification and even now and then disagrees with me, but I honestly cant recall the last time she didnt obey me.........


Yes, its true, I'm obedient.  Sometimes to a fault, as when I take directions too literally and follow an order to a T without thinking enough about it.  If Sir says do X, Y, and Z I do X, Y and Z without always thinking about whether or not W should be done also.  Recently, this has caused us some problems--nothing major; just some hassles that could have been avoided if one of us had been paying attention. W needed to be done. :)

But, and I think this is important, I'm like this all the time with everyone in many different contexts.  It's not just a D/s thing for me.  To be sure, early in our relationship, when I did refuse to obey some orders because I didn't think they were appropriate to our level of committment, it wasn't easy and caused me a lot of stress.  I was self-consciously withholding full submission because I was uncertain about Sir's willingness/ability to accept it and wanted to make sure he was prepared for it.  In short, I was being cautious but in being cautious, I was going against my own 'natural' tendency.  I have to work not to submit/obey/comply.  If someone tells me to do something, I do it and this has gotten me into some trouble.

I know not everyone is like this.  At work, it puzzles me to no end when the folks I work with refuse to do their job for whatever reason.  They're told to do something and they just don't do it.  I don't get it.  And, I don't get why they still have jobs not to do.

In years past, when I was much younger, I was something of a social radical, I managed to convince myself that complete obedience was a revolutionary act.  In my thinking, if everyone did exactly what they were supposed to do without deviation everything would fall apart.  Imagine what would have happened in the late 70's and 80's before they changed the maximum speed limits if everyone did drive 55 mph and no faster.  The interstates would have been a mess.  The system depends on disobedience/rebellion/resistance.  So, I refused all those things and trained myself to comply.  (I was already pretty good at it, and have been since I was a child, so it wasn't difficult.) Since then, I've gotten over myself so now obedience is just a habit and a kink.  :)



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RE: Obey - 9/4/2009 11:02:23 PM   
NuevaVida


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Joined: 8/5/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


If you were not [happy and fulfilled] and still stayed with him then you would be mentally ill and outside of the meaning of the lifestyle.



Wow I'm guessing there are a lot of mentally ill married people then....just sayin'


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Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Obey - 9/5/2009 10:36:04 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
lol...that is true...and if you stay with a spouse and be unhappy you would be...but then again that is why our divorce rate is so high...Thank heavens our society has changed its ideas on marriage and divorce or we would have a lot more nuts around.

ps...me included...twice over

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/5/2009 10:37:51 AM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Obey - 9/5/2009 11:06:02 PM   
DearJessicaD


Posts: 55
Joined: 10/26/2008
From: East Coast
Status: offline
My boyfriend expects me to listen to him when he tells me to do something. I can explain why I don't want to, but only after I've already moved in the direction he wants me to go.

So if we're at a restaurant and he tells me to order Food A because he thinks I'll really like it, I will order that. After the order has been placed I can tell him that I really wanted to order Food B and had been looking forward to going to the restaurant because of the opportunity to get it. He'll still expect me to eat Food A and be pleasant about it, but he'll remember and probably take me back to that restaurant and let me get what I want next time.

He puts it on me to decide when I need to take things a step farther than that. For example he always picks out what I wear each day and recently I saw that the A/C wasn't working in a building I had a class in that day. So before my boyfriend left for work even though I hadn't yet gotten dressed in what he'd picked out I told him about the lack of A/C in the hopes he'd tell me to wear something less heavy. But if he didn't, I'd suck it up and just plan to sweat all day.

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Obey - 9/6/2009 9:44:32 AM   
SouthernSpankin


Posts: 106
Joined: 7/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

This isn't from a personal situation.  It was just something I was thinking about after replying on another thread.

Every once in a while I'll read things on one thread or another and it will make Me wonder if the concept of obedience gets lost sometimes.  I'm not talking about breaking a sub's hard limits or commanding a sub to do something that they find immoral or perhaps it's illegal.  In My mind, if we're staying out of those kinds of territories, the answer should be rather simple.  If I'm the Dominant, and I have a submissive, if I give a command, I expect it to be obeyed.  Sure, it can be discussed if there's an issue about it, but when I've made My decision, it's time for My submissive to yield to My authority.

Does it mean that a sub will always like what I've told him to do?  No.

Does it mean that he's always going to enjoy an activity?  No.

Do I expect him to obey anyway?  Yes.

I'm wondering how other people feel about the concept of obedience in D/s.



Depends on the person. Yes, when I'm with a sub that is absolutely into being 100% obedient, I love it. But there are some other subs that aren't into being 100% obedient, but regarding the way we hit it off, I love it as well. And of course, there are subs whose concept of obedience is so far out there that we don't connect at all.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 168
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