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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 10:43:25 AM   
Irishknight


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Irishknight

Arrogance, I have to disagree with you on the treatment of W. He was personally attacked by the left every time he made the wrong face toward a camera. He was constantly compared to Hitler and many claimed that his "secret police" were going to take over and install him as a dictator. Even when he pulled his head out of his ass for a moment and tried to do something good the partasinship on the left crippled his attempts. It was so bad that Republicans asked him not to publicly lend his support to important bills so that the other side would even consider them.
Obama is being treated unfairly by many, that is true. There is a precedent set by his own party for such treatment.


This simply isn't true.

Bush's poll ratings were 70-80% positive as the country rallied behind him after 9/11.

He has no one to blame but himself for his failings.

quote:


As for the speech, I have faith that my child can tell bullshit from candy and ingest the right one. I am glad that the "How can I serve Obama?" movie has been pulled. THAT is exactly the way a certain german leader indoctrinated children. Our president is better than that. Whoever wrote the scripts for that movie needs to be drawing unemployment.


Our President had nothing to do with that video although the OP tried to imply that by grouping together two completely different stories.

The video was made and distributed independently by Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher.


Rule, you and I both know that what I said IS true. The fact that they rallied together for a short time does not make the rest of the hatefilled drivel spouted during his presidency anything less. To many, if W did it then it must be evil. It wasn't long after 911 that the shitstorm hit. Yes, much was deserved but much wasn't. It was okay to bash anything Republican.

I read a bumper sticker during the Bush/Kerry election that stated "Republicans should be labotimized." I came up with the idea to place a sticker saying "Democrats should be labotimized," on a car and see how fast it was vandalized. I even spoke to local television and radio stations about the idea. Every person I spoke to agreed that the car would be a wreck but they didn't want to be the ones who proved it. They were afraid of the ratings loss. People, including members of my own family, were rabid at the mere mention of W.

As for the video, I never claimed the president had anything to do with it. As I stated, he is better than that. If Moore and Kutcher made the video then they should be ashamed. Their words echoed those in preWW2 Germany, "How can I serve Hitler?"

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 11:46:51 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

Rule, you and I both know that what I said IS true. The fact that they rallied together for a short time does not make the rest of the hatefilled drivel spouted during his presidency anything less. To many, if W did it then it must be evil. It wasn't long after 911 that the shitstorm hit. Yes, much was deserved but much wasn't. It was okay to bash anything Republican. ORIGINAL: Irishknight



I think you leave out an important fact, Irish. The reason that Bush became so reviled and hated is not because he is a republican. At least it was not that alone. Among the reasons that he became such an object of hatred were:

1) He lied to the country about the reasons he went to war in Iraq. Forget the revisionism that came later. We did not go to war in Iraq to bring democracy, oust a cruel and evil despot or to provide stability in the region. We went to war because President Bush repeatedly told the country that he KNEW that there were stockpiles of WMD in Iraq and that they posed a threat to the United States. When it came to light that these were lies from the beginning, that there were no WMD in Iraq (a fact that was attested to before the war began by UN investigators), there was a tremendous feeling of betrayal and distrust.

2) The complete abandonment of even his own professed agenda. In his first term, Bush did not veto a single spending bill sent up by the republican controlled legislature. Further, he made it a practice to use creative bookeeping to hide such things as billions in war costs from the general budget so as to lessen the deficit he was raising up. This led to a perceived hypocrisy that alienated the populace and rose the anger level appreciably.

3) The Carl Rove campaign tactics he used in both his first and second campaigns drove the level of anger and polarization to a new level. The examples of this are numerous. I will suffice it to say that it was a rather gutsy move from a man who spent his service in the safety of the Texas national guard to allow his campaign to try to paint a decorated war veteran as a coward. It should be noted that it was not the democrats alone who suffered this fate. If you will recall, John McCain was also tarred with that brush during his primary campaigns against the president.

None of these things had anything to do with his being a republican. They all, however, added to the anger that smoldered and festered during his administration.

With that said, I still repeat that the problem is what is happening now, not what happened before. The level of anger and polarization between the progressive (I could mention that the level of invective against those who used to consider ourselves "liberal" was so destructive and hateful that we had to change our damn names) and conservatives in this country. I do not count myself innocent of this. I must admit to feeling an anger over the current attack style that I have found myself responding in kind and of this I am not proud. I still, however, continue to urge a cessation of this "well you did this" and "but you did that" nonsense and an attempt to at least try to bring the discussion and national mood somewhere above the behavior being demonstrated currently.



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Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 1:19:54 PM   
Brain


Posts: 3792
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		I don’t think this is important because he’s not going to say anything controversial. Also, a staff person made an error when they said something about helping the president and that was retracted. There are more important things to get done right now like healthcare, the economy and the wars. This is bull.

I always get ticked when people invoke Hitler's name when labelling politicians whether it's Obama or Bush

People in my family like my father and uncle had to give up a few years of their lives to confront the real Hitler. And they never compared a politician to Hitler. Fortunately, they made it through the war.



(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 1:23:32 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arrogance

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

I ask this question without spin or bias. Just what teaching points are you going to bring up about this speech, if any? What do you feel are the opportunities and lessons that this speech offers?

Catch any fish today? Precisely how is someone supposed to know what "teaching points" they are going to raise with their children about, or what "opportunities and lessons" are offered by, a speech they haven't even seen yet?

K.


Which begs the question of why are conservatives so upset about something they "haven't even seen yet"?



Because of who is presenting it. He could save a thousand puppies from a burning building and half the people here would condemn him for letting the building burn like the pig-fucking communist dog that he is.



Not in my case. I would think it was just as stupid if Bush had suggested it. Our schools have already planned a curriculum for that day and they don't need the white house's help to come up with ideas.

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Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 1:29:32 PM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		someone posted that their school is taping it for later viewing. since so many are afraid our children's minds are that malable, then that would be a great solution. personally, i think he would be smarter to do it as a video, so the rest can quit whining about how he MAY destroy their kids minds.

gesh

sometimes people really give someone way too MUCH credit.

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 4:16:45 PM   
MarsBonfire


Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Well, who knows? Maybe he can read "My Pet Goat" this time around... without sitting there slackjawed for seven and one half minutes, cameras rolling for every second of it, while the US was being attacked. (Like someone else I could mention...)

For all we knew, the next plane to come down in NYC or D.C., could have had a stolen or cobbled together nuke. But he just SAT there.

Or maybe he'll be more like Bush I, who entertained the kids with fairy tales about how great the tax cuts for the rich will be. (Only later to make up the deficit by raising the taxes on the middle class.)

Something tells me this time around, things won't be the pit-like beginning of the long American Nightmare that we're still clawing our way out of.

"Work hard. Stay in school. Stay away from drugs." Yeah, that's going to be some really heavy handed "indoctination" the kids will be getting from the Pres. Let's hope they all heed the message, and become brain washed with THAT horrid socialist programming.

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Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 6:32:11 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

someone posted that their school is taping it for later viewing. since so many are afraid our children's minds are that malable, then that would be a great solution. personally, i think he would be smarter to do it as a video, so the rest can quit whining about how he MAY destroy their kids minds.

gesh

sometimes people really give someone way too MUCH credit.


That's funny, I have talked to a lot of people who were against this and none of them mentioned that they were afraid their childs mind was too malable. Are you sure your not just repeating some bs you heard somewhere? Do you honestly know why everyone is against this? Oh and can I borrow that crystal ball when your done with it, I want to check the lottery numbers for tomorrow.

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Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 6:35:14 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		sure! its a bit fuzzy about money issues though. just fair warning.

now, recall, i said MAY... i did not say it would, then again it does seem to be a viable option to what i consider an irrational fear regarding a speach given by a man, following the others given by other men without a murmur.

as far as the rest, pray tell.. what is it then? should not current events and politics be a part of every child's education? or do i again have to point out the multiple times i had to direct people's attention here to how a simple process of how a bill becomes a law.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 7:07:07 PM   
SpinnerofTales


Posts: 1586
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Status: offline 		It is amazing how people grasp at straws to justify their stances. This time it's "Oh the waste of class time" needed to have children hear a 20 minute speech by the president. This makes about as much sense as another poster in another thread who claimed a bill shouldn't be considered (to be fair there were other reasons given but this was mentioned) the printing expenses that would accrue to the taxpayer.

When in doubt, argue minutia.

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Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 7:17:02 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Now, lets see what is being said....

quote:

A speech by President Obama has prompted accusations of "indoctrinating" America's youth and calls for "transparency" -- nearly a week before it is scheduled to be delivered to the nation's school children.

The U.S. Department of Education last week announced plans for the president to speak "directly to the nation's school children about persisting and succeeding in school" -- as Secretary Arne Duncan wrote in an email letter sent to principals at more than 100,000 schools.

The 15- to 20-minute address is scheduled for Sept. 8, the first day of school for many districts, at Wakefield High School in Arlington, Va., and will be broadcast over the Internet, on C-SPAN and via satellite for access by local broadcast outlets and school districts.

But the plan has encountered resistance this week, most notably in a statement from Jim Greer, chairman of the Florida Republican party:

"As the father of four children, I am absolutely appalled that taxpayer dollars are being used to spread President Obama's socialist ideology," the letter began. "The idea that school children across our nation will be forced to watch the President justify his plans for government-run health care, banks, and automobile companies, increasing taxes on those who create jobs, and racking up more debt than any other President, is not only infuriating, but goes against beliefs of the majority of Americans, while bypassing American parents through an invasive abuse of power."

As the statement drew attention from blogs and cable TV news shows, some conservative sites began calling for a "National Skip Day" on Sept. 8th to prevent children from being exposed to "Obama propaganda."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-dc-obama-schools,0,4944375.story

and this

quote:

There once was a political operative who loved to tell crowds he had a simple way of explaining to children the difference between Republicans and Democrats.

"Republicans get up and go to work," he would tell his son. "Democrats get up and go down to the mailbox to get their checks."

This man not only talked to his son about Republican values, he went into public-school classrooms and talked about them as well.

That man is Jim Greer — the same Jim Greer who, as chairman of the Republican Party of Florida, just threw a nationwide hissy fit, claiming that the classroom is no place for politics and Barack Obama's "indoctrination."

One Seminole County mother, Barbara Wells, remembers the day Greer spoke to her son's sixth-grade class. "My son said he made some sort of Hillary Clinton joke," she recalled.

But you know what? Wells didn't pitch a fit.

She didn't call up the local TV station to scream about Republican indoctrination.

Instead, she advised her son: "Whatever you are told in life, remember there are two sides to every story."

In fact, Wells didn't even think much about Greer's foray into her son's classroom until she saw him on TV complaining about Obama.

There's no longer any question: Greer is a hypocrite.

What remains to be seen, however, is whether mainstream Republicans in Florida will allow him to drag them deeper into the divisive and irrational fringes of their party.

Mainstream conservatives, after all, are being left behind.

While they want to talk about real issues, like out-of-control spending, they are forced to watch their state "leader" make a buffoon out of himself in the national spotlight. This just two weeks after a former House speaker was allowed to rack up $170,000 in GOP credit-card bills on Greer's watch.

This country needs a healthy two-party system with smart debate.

But there's nothing healthy or smart about Greer's claim that the president's pep talk about succeeding in school was really an attempt to "indoctrinate America's children to his socialist agenda."

Presidents have been talking to schoolchildren ever since we've had schools.

And not just presidents. Politicians of all stripes — from Govs. Jeb Bush and Lawton Chiles to Mayors Buddy Dyer and Rich Crotty.

In fact, as I sit here, rereading the previous two paragraphs, I find myself amazed that I even had to kill trees to print such obvious statements.

Are we really so far removed from reality that we don't understand the value of a president encouraging children to work hard?

One of the last times Obama spoke to schoolchildren, he said the following: "No one has written your destiny for you. Your destiny is in your hands. You cannot forget that."


http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/education/orl-loc-maxwell-greer-obama-090509,0,3762186.column

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 7:43:01 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

It's starting to be like Obama is inviting Hitler Youth comparisons,
You know nothing about the Hitler Youth do you?

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 8:18:48 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales



I think you leave out an important fact, Irish. The reason that Bush became so reviled and hated is not because he is a republican. At least it was not that alone. Among the reasons that he became such an object of hatred were:

1) He lied to the country about the reasons he went to war in Iraq.

2) The complete abandonment of even his own professed agenda.

3) The Carl Rove campaign tactics

None of these things had anything to do with his being a republican.





Quite a list you've got here, Spinner.  Funny how you managed to miss the denial (birther and truther like denial, if I might make a comparison) that he was ever elected President to begin with.  We still see vestiges of that nonsense here in these very forums.

Bush was hated because suddenly it was ok for the Democrats to just be all about hate.  I'm not sure where that shift happened, or when, but something that had always been been a bitchy little tendency among the whining little bitches the party sought as voters became mainstream during the Bush II years.

Genii's don't go back into the bottle all that easily.

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Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 8:46:08 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

Bush was hated because suddenly it was ok for the Democrats to just be all about hate. I'm not sure where that shift happened, or when, but something that had always been been a bitchy little tendency among the whining little bitches the party sought as voters became mainstream during the Bush II years.
ORIGINAL: TheHeretic



Well, it's nice to see you're spirit of fairness and open mindedness in your characterization of Democrats as "whining little bitches". However, even if everything you say is true (and I am by no means saying it is), it is nice to see that the republicans have become, in your own words "whiny little bitches".....we can't have enough whiny little bitches around when important matters are discussed.

As much fun as it is to point fingers and lay blame, I ask again, "What the hell do we do to get this situation solved and bring the level of political debate up from the level of a bunch of third graders having a hissy fit?"

And a much more personal question...what are YOU doing to make the situation better?



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Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 9:06:21 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

It's starting to be like Obama is inviting Hitler Youth comparisons,
You know nothing about the Hitler Youth do you?


I never said or inferred it would be correct, but even comments in this thread show that my  statement is holding true, what do you think indoctrination infers.  As in whether true or not, valid or not, just talking to kids nationwide at the same time in this environment, some will latch on to the Hitler Youth as an easy tactic.

And to answer your question, I know enough about the Hitler Youth, to know one simulcast would not be equivalent, to the forced entry that Hitler imposed. I'm not an expert, but I watched a 4 hour documentary on the Hitler Youth, recently. So, no I don't think his plan is equivalent. I think others will say it is though, see the difference. I'm making a political observation.

You read alot into statements that aren't there, don't you?



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Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 9:21:31 PM   
Sanity


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The original Department of Education lesson plan related to Obama's speech on September 8th called for teachers to have their students read a book about Barack Obama, and earlier in the thread I asked what books could they have meant?

Well, here are two possibilities:

Barack Obama: Son of Promise, Child of Hope

and

Barack

http://www.puma08.com/2009/09/02/sept-8th-here-are-two-of-the-books-on-obama-your-kids-are-expected-to-read/

I'm not sure what other books are out there, if these are the books that were candidates, or if there are others that would  have been distributed or have been distributed.

I honestly don't know. Anyone have any idea? Are there children's books in school libraries around the nation about Obama that are more neutral than these are?


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Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 9:28:30 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/inauguration/la-et-obamabooks16-2009jan16,0,5831755.story

many

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 9:33:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The original Department of Education lesson plan related to Obama's speech on September 8th called for teachers to have their students read a book about Barack Obama, and earlier in the thread I asked what books could they have meant?

Well, here are two possibilities:

Barack Obama: Son of Promise, Child of Hope

and

Barack

http://www.puma08.com/2009/09/02/sept-8th-here-are-two-of-the-books-on-obama-your-kids-are-expected-to-read/

I'm not sure what other books are out there, if these are the books that were candidates, or if there are others that would  have been distributed or have been distributed.

I honestly don't know. Anyone have any idea? Are there children's books in school libraries around the nation about Obama that are more neutral than these are?



The site you posted doesnt list them as a possibility, but says instead,,,

quote:

Remember, the Dept. of Education expects your kids to read books on the life of Barack Obama before the monumental speech on September 8th, well here’s a look at two of the books that shall be used:


With so much back and forth, so many assumptions, so many distorting the truth, manipulating facts and out and out right lying... how does anyone know whats fact anymore?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 10:20:06 PM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

I honestly don't know. Anyone have any idea? Are there children's books in school libraries around the nation about Obama that are more neutral than these are?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


The original Department of Education lesson plan related to Obama's speech on September 8th called for teachers to have their students read a book about Barack Obama, and earlier in the thread I asked what books could they have meant?

Well, here are two possibilities:

Barack Obama: Son of Promise, Child of Hope

and

Barack

http://www.puma08.com/2009/09/02/sept-8th-here-are-two-of-the-books-on-obama-your-kids-are-expected-to-read/

I'm not sure what other books are out there, if these are the books that were candidates, or if there are others that would  have been distributed or have been distributed.

I honestly don't know. Anyone have any idea? Are there children's books in school libraries around the nation about Obama that are more neutral than these are?



On a serious level, I would have to question the children's books that have been used about other presidents before Obama and compare them in tone and message. As I recall from my childhood, children's books about presidents were always aimed towards the positive. The president was a special guy, with big dreams for the country who wanted to make everything better for all of us. That's what kids were usually taught at a primary school level, no matter who the president was.

And now, just for fun

A LIST OF BOOKS ABOUT BARAK OBAMA THAT THE CONSERVATIVES WOULD FIND ACCEPTABLE:

Obama: The Man Who Is Mortgaging Your Future
Barak Obama: Our First Communist President
From Kenya to The White House: How a Foreigner Defrauded Our Country
and my favorite
Why the President Makes the Vein in Daddy's Forehead Throb.

These will go well with the books that I'm sure were used in the past for grades k-6 such as:

George Bush Search: Find the WMD
Bill Clinton: 1001 Uses for a Cigar When You Don't Smoke
and my favorite
Regean: The Senile Old Fart Who was President.

What has happened to our educational system?


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 11:01:32 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

And now, just for fun

A LIST OF BOOKS ABOUT BARAK OBAMA THAT THE CONSERVATIVES WOULD FIND ACCEPTABLE:

Oh cool. What a jolly fellow. For your next trick, how about seeing if you can come up with a list of the sort of things people might forego in their posts in order to avoid provoking each other and turning thread after thread into a freaking clown contest?

K.


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Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 11:22:49 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		 
LOL, Spinner!  Yes you do spin at every opportunity!  Sometimes better than others...



quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
what are YOU doing to make the situation better?



Why I go to work, Spinner, because so many on welfare depend on me.  Didn't you know they all got a 13.6% raise a few months ago?


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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to SpinnerofTales)
Profile   Post #: 120
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