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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 11:28:45 PM

SpinnerofTales

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Why I go to work, Spinner, because so many on welfare depend on me. Didn't you know they all got a 13.6% raise a few months ago?
ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

That's very nice, Heritic..but the question was, what are you doing to the problem of demonizaiton of any opposing politician or idea? Or do you just throw out conservative chestnuts like iching coins and let us make of them what we will?

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 11:36:05 PM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

That's very nice, Heritic..but the question was, what are you doing to the problem of demonizaiton of any opposing politician or idea? Or do you just throw out conservative chestnuts like iching coins and let us make of them what we will?

Whoaaa! Are you the same Spinner who can usually spell and compose coherent sentences?

K.

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 11:39:09 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

That's very nice, Heritic..but the question was, what are you doing to the problem of demonizaiton of any opposing politician or idea?

So I'm guessing you don't notice the forms of address I consistently use when speaking of our President? Practicing civil speech doesn't count?

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/5/2009 11:45:38 PM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

So I'm guessing you don't notice the forms of address I consistently use when speaking of our President? Practicing civil speech doesn't count?

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Actually, that's a very welcome civility, Heritic. And it is appreciated. It is a good step in the right direction towards lowering the level of hostility that keeps discussion at such a blood rage level. No matter who started it, I hope you can agree that bringing this out of control animosity on both sides to a lesser level is a worthwhile goal.

< Message edited by SpinnerofTales -- 9/5/2009 11:46:40 PM >

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 5:45:32 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

sure! its a bit fuzzy about money issues though. just fair warning.

now, recall, i said MAY... i did not say it would, then again it does seem to be a viable option to what i consider an irrational fear regarding a speach given by a man, following the others given by other men without a murmur.

as far as the rest, pray tell.. what is it then? should not current events and politics be a part of every child's education? or do i again have to point out the multiple times i had to direct people's attention here to how a simple process of how a bill becomes a law.

Of course current events and politics should be a part of their education. In livonia, it always has been. That is why they have so many government classes to chose from. They also have teachers to teach these classes, so the president can concentrate on more important things.

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 5:51:55 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

It is amazing how people grasp at straws to justify their stances. This time it's "Oh the waste of class time" needed to have children hear a 20 minute speech by the president. This makes about as much sense as another poster in another thread who claimed a bill shouldn't be considered (to be fair there were other reasons given but this was mentioned) the printing expenses that would accrue to the taxpayer.

When in doubt, argue minutia.

My stance is that it is a waste of time. I don't have to grasp any straws to get there, I just have to use common sense and look at the situation. Now if they had been aiming this whole thing at high school kids, specifically seniors, then I might have looked at it differently, but they didn't. And in our area the high school seniors don't start school till the 9th, so a portion of the kids who might have gotten something out of the speech won't even see it. Yea, I can tell this was thought out well before they decided to do it.

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 5:56:36 AM

thishereboi

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Not sure what book they meant either, but if we are going to encourage our kids to read a book, I think this is a good one for them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Children's_Story

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 6:16:31 AM

rulemylife

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

They also have teachers to teach these classes, so the president can concentrate on more important things.

Can you say No Child Left Behind?

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 6:50:41 AM

SpinnerofTales

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Whoaaa! Are you the same Spinner who can usually spell and compose coherent sentences? ORIGINAL: Kirata

What can I say? It was late. I was tired. I will immediately resign my White House advisory position and sit in the corner with all the rest of the dangers to the country.

I'm so terribly sorry.

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 8:07:20 AM

tazzygirl

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you guys are funny. as each president is elected, the books are ready for printing. sorta like a super bowl winner's jersey.

there are multiple books, age appropriate, for all school children.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?SearchBooks.y=7&SearchBooks.x=47&CAT=1262395&cds2Pid=25937&linkid=1454386

guess its just hard to do a google on some things.

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 8:07:21 AM

chiaThePet

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ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

sit in the corner with all the rest of the dangers to the country.

Come on over to the dark side.

I have weapons of mass crayola.

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 9:23:07 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

It is amazing how people grasp at straws to justify their stances. This time it's "Oh the waste of class time" needed to have children hear a 20 minute speech by the president. This makes about as much sense as another poster in another thread who claimed a bill shouldn't be considered (to be fair there were other reasons given but this was mentioned) the printing expenses that would accrue to the taxpayer.

When in doubt, argue minutia.

My stance is that it is a waste of time. I don't have to grasp any straws to get there, I just have to use common sense and look at the situation. Now if they had been aiming this whole thing at high school kids, specifically seniors, then I might have looked at it differently, but they didn't. And in our area the high school seniors don't start school till the 9th, so a portion of the kids who might have gotten something out of the speech won't even see it. Yea, I can tell this was thought out well before they decided to do it.

Just to correct my post, it's not just the seniors who will be missing this. The juniors and sophmores won't start until the 9th either. But the freshman will still get to be inspired.

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 10:20:40 AM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

Let me try to insert a reasonable question, for the reasonable people and not the Obama monster-shouters:

If Obama sticks to "Stay in school, do your homework, work hard, be good citizens and you'll be able to make your dreams to", in other words, doing as he says and not making it a policy speech, do you see anything wrong with the President of the United States addressing the school children of the United States?

Not if he does only that. But I see him attempting to bind youths to himself and not to the country, U.S. Constitution. When soldiers of Rome were more loyal to their generals than to Rome, Rome burned. Why does it seem he is intent upon taking this path when surely he knows where it will likely end.

His propensity for setting up websites and such to spy on people like "old mister duct tape and plastic sheeting" did and now this. It may be that there are stupid people on his staff, but still it all comes back to him. Either you keep hiring stupid people( which makes me question your judgment) or it's you who is making these decision( which make me question your judgment). Neither one is good.

You could say this is just a mix up but if things like this happen again then it will be seen as a pattern.

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 10:39:39 AM

Arpig

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quote:

So, no I don't think his plan is equivalent. I think others will say it is though, see the difference. I'm making a political observation.

You read alot into statements that aren't there, don't you?

Fair enough, your disagreement with the comparison wasn't clear to me in the original post, so in this case I did indeed read more into it than was there. Sorry for that, and thanks for clarifying.

< Message edited by Arpig -- 9/6/2009 10:48:23 AM >

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 10:50:19 AM

BeingChewsie

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quote:

should not current events and politics be a part of every child's education?

I can't speak for every parent but politics and current events are something we teach our son, we do that from a conservative perspective. We feel we addressed this issue to the extent we needed too. Our son knows it is taking place on the 8th, he knows some people find it controversial either because they fundamentally disagree with the President or disagreed with the materials that were sent to public schools, and he knows it is a feel good stay in school speech. From our perspective at this point that is about as "current" as he needs to be on this one political issue. In any given day there are so many world issues that we could cover in depth but time prevents so we try and concentrate on the ones we deem meaningful and appropriate for him.

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 10:56:30 AM

Arpig

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You know, in all of this I can't for the life of me see anything wrong with the idea. Why shouldn't the President address school children on the opening day of school? I am willing to assume that he is smart enough to make his speech more or less innocuous. He is undeniably a great orator, and I fail to see how a speech from him exhorting students to study hard and to follow their dreams would be anything but beneficial. What is wrong with the idea of the President trying to inspire kids to study and pursue their dreams?

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 11:01:40 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeingChewsie

quote:

should not current events and politics be a part of every child's education?

I can't speak for every parent but politics and current events are something we teach our son, we do that from a conservative perspective. We feel we addressed this issue to the extent we needed too. Our son knows it is taking place on the 8th, he knows some people find it controversial either because they fundamentally disagree with the President or disagreed with the materials that were sent to public schools, and he knows it is a feel good stay in school speech. From our perspective at this point that is about as "current" as he needs to be on this one political issue. In any given day there are so many world issues that we could cover in depth but time prevents so we try and concentrate on the ones we deem meaningful and appropriate for him.

As you know, i also homeschooled my son. Ah, i remember many school days at the beach and in the mountains. Trips to museums and art galleries.

If we were still teaching him, we would tape the program, view it later, and then decide if it was pertinent for him to view.

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 1:24:26 PM

Arpig

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quote:

If we were still teaching him, we would tape the program, view it later, and then decide if it was pertinent for him to view.

How does this differ from the supposed indoctrination that Obama wants to carry out. You would censor the material he would be exposed to.

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 2:09:46 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

If we were still teaching him, we would tape the program, view it later, and then decide if it was pertinent for him to view.
How does this differ from the supposed indoctrination that Obama wants to carry out. You would censor the material he would be exposed to.

Not so, Arpig. The President of the United States does not decide what goes into school curriculum, and has no authority to make himself part of it. The decision about honoring his suggestions would go to the locally elected school boards, or, for a home school situation, to the parents. Censorship is an awfully strong and provocative term to apply to the exercise of lawful discretion.

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RE: Political indoctrination in schools: - 9/6/2009 2:49:19 PM

SpinnerofTales

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Not so, Arpig. The President of the United States does not decide what goes into school curriculum, and has no authority to make himself part of it. The decision about honoring his suggestions would go to the locally elected school boards, or, for a home school situation, to the parents. Censorship is an awfully strong and provocative term to apply to the exercise of lawful discretion.
ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

I have to agree with you, Heretic. It is not a matter of censorship. The school boards have the right to show or not show what they choose in school as relates to their curriculum. What disturbs me is this sudden thought that having the president of the United States address the children of the country is somehow a matter for controversy. As has been mentioned before, when Regan and Bush made similar speeches, there may have been a bit of comment on the political nature of their remarks, but the concept of the President addressing the children of the country was not viewed as a harmful thing in and of itself.

What I have seen that is concerning for me is the rapid succession of reasons for not wanting Obama to speak. The initial reason given was a fear of "indoctrination" (see the title of this thread for example). When that notion was more or less debunked, suddenly it became an issue of wasting student's times by having them spend 20 minutes (call it an hour to get everything set up and taken down) listening to the President talk to them about staying in school and working hard. Now we've shifted to the idea that every individual school board should have been contacted and asked "is it ok if the President speaks?"

Again, I have to wonder if it isn't a matter of "the president addressing" school children but of "Obama addressing school children." If that is the case, isn't the lesson we're teaching our children is that what a politician who doesn't agree with one's views is 100% bad. Isn't the brother of that thought what a politician who does agree with my views does is 100% good. And is that the lesson we really want to teach our children?

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