RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (Full Version)

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SpinnerofTales -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 12:56:08 PM)

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Ummm...the pathetic attempt at health care reform which is really nothing more than a weak attempt at insurance reform that does nothing to address the problems in American healthcare maybe? I have said it before and I am pretty sure I will have to say it again. Obama is not a radical left wing politician, he is a slightly right of centre politician. A truely left wing radical would have nationalized the banks instead of bailing them out with loans.
ORIGINAL: Arpig




Of course some people view everything that the present administration does as radical left wing. These are people who think Rush Limbaugh is talking facts and that Sarah Palin is the hope for this country. The end result if they get their way, at best, is a round of repressive social programs, monetary policy that will do nothing to correct the factors that put us in our current mess and a general round of back patting as we watch our situation deteriorate.



Mercnbeth -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 12:59:23 PM)

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ORIGINAL: Arpig
A truly left wing radical would have nationalized the banks instead of bailing them out with loans.
Good point, however, it takes time for such a move to be accepted. First the auto companies then the Banks.

Revisit this in early November, after the recess and once the 3rd quarter results start being analyzed. Banks really aren't in much better shape then they were before the executive bonus stimulus package which simply put the bad loans off their books and onto the taxpayers books.

In another life - the take over of GM/Chrysler by the US government would have been radical enough in the US. There has been enough fundamental indoctrination toward accepting a 'nanny' government that barely raised a eye-brow. However in a history book not yet written, it may be listed as a first step to whatever agenda the ruling class and their special interest paymasters have in mind.

Meanwhile, best to keep providing some polarizing distractions....

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First, I have enough respect for your intelligence to believe you can tell the difference between saying to a young student "How can I help the President" and "What can I do for the President" in the context of any civics discussion. The question wasn't "What can I do for Obama?" or "How can I serve Obama?" it was "How can I help the president?". I don't believe I would find that question inappropriate no matter who was in office
You'll have to call "BULLSHIT" on the Administration then; because if the message was a question of semantics - it wouldn't have necessitated the drastic change they made in the distributed lesson plan.

Now its appropriately named "wash your hands", as in "I'm washing my hands of this whole mess."

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You can decry "Damage Control" all you like. I personally see it as a man who can take feedback on a range of things and modify them to improve them. I think that far better than those who will stick to an idea or policy like a bulldog and never make a change.
You have a problem with that being bullshit too; because where's the learning, where's the change? All he has are people he threw under the bus. I've yet to see, concerning ANY of this Administration's "damage control" issues any representation of "I was wrong!". Now that would be an indication of modifying and represent an opportunity to improve. You see that anyplace?

Not me, I see "damage control", cut your losses, time to make another speech; children's matinée on Tuesday, with the main show on Wednesday night.



VanIsleKnight -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 1:06:02 PM)

... reading this is a lot like watching regular politics.

Insults, mudslinging, and very little discussion about whatever the actual topic is.

God I hate politics sometimes.  It's like... political bigotry/racism.  Is there an -ism word for people that automatically hate and disregard anything that a person from "left" or "right" wing?  Why do these terms even exist? They serve nothing more then a barrier between people whose time and ideas could be better spent to actually solving an issue rather then ramming heads repeatedly to prove that "their way" is the best way.



I don't live in the US and so I don't know what the environment is for people living there.  I know there's something called the "No Child Left Behind" act which I'm led to believe means that no student ever fails a grade?  If that's true, then... yes, I would have to say that Americans in general are stupid for two reasons.  One, the act has been in place long enough to hurt your nation with at least one poorly educated generation.  Two, for allowing something so incredibly -stupid- to come to pass.  If I'm incorrect on my understanding of this particular Act, I apologize.



rikigrl -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 1:08:12 PM)

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ORIGINAL: Sanity


A lot of people are starting to wake up and realize that we've put a radical in the White House. Not everyone, but that's to be expected. There will always be a few who remain faithful even in the face of overwhelming evidence, and those people will deny the reality of the situation 'til the bitter end.



i said this exact same thing back in 2003 LOL.



Sanity -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 1:25:18 PM)


When you invoke 'Rush Limbaugh' and 'Sarah Palin' you're only trying the same old, same old "nazi communist" rhetoric, Spinner. Demonize them, demonize them some more, then point to them in any given argument and scream "SEE??? SEE???"

Rush is a commentater / entertainer, Palin is a former vice presidential candidate, and neither one of them is hardly the devil. You guys spent eight years demonizing Bush and you can't seem to debate unless you have some bogeyman to point to.

It's getting tired, Spinner.

In contrast to those the left casts as radicals, much like the boy who cried wolf, Obama is a radical by virtue of his policies and by virtue of the people he surrounds himself with, nationalized health care and his racist "green Czar" Van Jones being only two of the latest examples.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
Of course some people view everything that the present administration does as radical left wing. These are people who think Rush Limbaugh is talking facts and that Sarah Palin is the hope for this country. The end result if they get their way, at best, is a round of repressive social programs, monetary policy that will do nothing to correct the factors that put us in our current mess and a general round of back patting as we watch our situation deteriorate.




Arpig -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 1:30:14 PM)

OK Sanity, I'll bite....just which policies of Obama's qualify as radical in your opinion?



VanIsleKnight -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 1:30:15 PM)

So, quick question.  If this were an actual debate hall, would there be some sort of person in charge of things to say "Get back on topic" or no?



Arpig -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 1:31:40 PM)

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If this were an actual debate hall, would there be some sort of person in charge of things to say "Get back on topic" or no?
Yes there would be,but then again this isn't a debate hall.



VanIsleKnight -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 1:34:25 PM)

So... instead it's just an open forum to critize, insult, and generally bitch at each other?



TheHeretic -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 1:36:01 PM)

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ORIGINAL: VanIsleKnight

Insults, mudslinging, and very little discussion about whatever the actual topic is.




No worries, Vani.  In this case, the actual topic was insults and mudslinging.  [:D]



VanIsleKnight -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 1:39:26 PM)

In a sense, yes, I suppose you're right.  :)  I'd have figured though that the actual topic would have been about education and the intellect of the average American.  I mean, we make jokes up in Canada that you guys don't know anything about us, but is it really that bad down there?  I mean I'm not much better I think, I sometimes have issues remembering the order of the provinces and their capitals, especially on the eastern end of Canada (darn tiny provinces).



Arpig -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 1:44:44 PM)

I mean I'm not much better I think, I sometimes have issues remembering the order of the provinces and their capitals, especially on the eastern end of Canada (darn tiny provinces).Sheesh dude,there's not that many of them!



VanIsleKnight -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 1:53:34 PM)

Yeah, I know.  :P My dad always got on my case about it, and had me learn not only the geography of Canada but the states and capitals of the US too.  I wasn't really "allowed" to use a calculator unless I absolutely needed it, so I got pretty good at doing math in my head as well.  Yay knowledge!

Sadly though, unless I practice and repeat what I've learned from time to time to keep it fresh, I start to get shaky on what I know. 



Sanity -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 1:59:58 PM)


Just off of the top of my head -

Letting the Black Panthers who were videotaped blocking a polling place in Philadelphia off the hook was radical. Hiring a racist  "green Czar' with a history of literally pushing communism and who espouses using the environmental issues towards that end is radical. Van Jones is also known for praising Hugo Chavez' strategy of nationalizing or outlawing television and radio stations guilty of criticizing the government...

Obama's original agenda for tomorrows nationwide school event which helped establish him as a cult of personality was radical. Here in the U.S. nationalizing insurance and / or health care is viewed as radical, Arpig. The list goes on and on.

How much do you really need?



quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

OK Sanity, I'll bite....just which policies of Obama's qualify as radical in your opinion?







Arpig -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 2:23:41 PM)

quote:

Letting the Black Panthers who were videotaped blocking a polling place in Philadelphia off the hook was radical.
Not really, it was stupid, and possibly illegal, but hardly radical...intimidating voters has a long and storied history in the US, just think back to Tammany Hall or the opposition to registering black voters in the 60s. So nothing radical here,just more of the usual.

quote:

Hiring a racist  "green Czar' with a history of literally pushing communism and who espouses using the environmental issues towards that end is radical.
The guy was the founder of several NGOs, none of which had a particularly communist purpose, nor has he been active politically in promoting communism. He has been promoting a "green-collar" economy, which seems to me to make him imminently suited for the position he was appointed to (an advisory position by the way, not one with any policy making power). So here there is nothing radical either, unless you consider appointing people based on their qualifications rather than on the basis of political favours owed to be radical (which I guess it is, so here I may have to grant you one, though not for the reasons you think).

quote:

Van Jones is also known for praising Hugo Chavez' strategy of nationalizing or outlawing television and radio stations guilty of criticizing the government...
Did some searching and couldn't find anything about this, However, what does his view of Chavez's tactics have to do with his qualifications to be an advisor on environmentally friendly job creation schemes?

quote:

Obama's original agenda for tomorrows nationwide school event which helped establish him as a cult of personality was radical.
We've heard quite a bit about Obama's original plan of what to say in his address to schools tomorrow, but so far nobody has provided any actual evidence of such plans. In fact everything I could find on the subject from reputable sources says just the opposite. That being said, the US has long had a minor cult of personality love affair with many of its Presidents...recent examples would be Reagan, Kennedy, Eisenhower and FDR. So even if Obama was planning on doing some blatant self-promoting in his address (an accusation for which there is no evidence) it wouldn't be anything radical. This sort of thing has been going on in American politics right from the start.

quote:

Here in the U.S. nationalizing insurance and / or health care is viewed as radical, Arpig.
Yes, That would be considered pretty radical, however, Obama is not attempting to do anything of the sort. There are no plans in place to nationalize either the insurance industry or the healthcare system. So again here, nothing radical,in fact Obama's limited moves to reform these two industries has been designed by the lobbyists of the insurance industry, so it really poses no threat tothem...how could it, they wrote the damn thing.

So not only are none of the things you listed in any way radical, but Obama himself is not a radical. He is centre-right, he is a conservative.



VanIsleKnight -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 2:29:40 PM)

Why again does it matter so much to people who is left, right, center, below and a little to the left while upside down?  Does being a Republican, Convervative, or whatever other parties you guys have down in the States change a good idea bad, or a bad idea good?



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 2:39:58 PM)

quote:

So... instead it's just an open forum to critize, insult, and generally bitch at each other? ORIGINAL: VanIsleKnight



Van, if you check almost any thread, it's an open forum to criticize, insult and generally bitch at one another. I had the temerity to suggest we cut out the "nazi/communist" name calling and was almost burned in effigy for it.

With a few notable exceptions, the average threads go like this:

Post 1: There is a subject
Post 2: The answer to this subject is that the party the second poster agrees with is good and the party they disagree with is bad.
Post 3: An claim that the party of choice of poster 2 is acting unfairly, lying and generally behaving shamelssly
Post 4: A denial that the party of choice of poster 2 is doing any such thing and the statement that it's all ok because the party of poster 3 started it all anyway.
Post 5: Someone comes up with a somewhat lighthearted posting attempting to inject some humor into what has become a silly situation
Post 6 & 7: Posters from both parties jump on poster 5 for not taking it serisouly
Post 8 onward: Free for all time....with an emphasis on "My party is a victim, your party sucks and so on"

It's kind of like a slasher movie. You know what you're going to get when you walk in. Only the color of the underwear the blond going up into the attic to .get hacked to death changes.



VanIsleKnight -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 2:48:26 PM)

Alright then, so here's another question.

Centuries to millenia ago people were doing much the same thing that you've just described.  Yet somehow, they managed to form some sort of system in which they could debate and discuss fairly and actually get things accomplished.  The system would have had flaws, sure, but in general it was better then what it was before.

How come, now, in the 21st century, with all the knowledge and technology and evolution that we've had, nobody here seems to be able to work up a system that'll allow open discussion and prevent degrading attacks that contribute nothing at all to the discussion at hand?



Sanity -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 3:05:28 PM)


Sorry, my bad - that was Obama's 'Chief Diversity Officer' at the FCC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5X7nP5mDgk

Disregard Beck if you must, but the video of Obama's Diversity Officer is undeniable.

quote:

Did some searching and couldn't find anything about this, However, what does his view of Chavez's tactics have to do with his qualifications to be an advisor on environmentally friendly job creation schemes?



Arpig -> RE: Bill Maher : most Americans are Dumb and Uneducated - And he is 110% right, as always :) (9/7/2009 3:31:57 PM)

Funny, I saw nothing in there about nationalizing Venezuelan media outlets. What I did see was three things.
First,the experpt from the introduction to the book. Well he is correct, freedom of the press is often a distraction from the discussion of communication policies. For example, when discussing whether or not a channelthat purports to be a news outlet has the responsibility to ensure that what it reports is factualor not, the cry of "freedom of the press" can distract from that question...yes the press is free, but that means it is not subject to control by the government,not that it is free to spread lies and disinformation, so there is just one example of how freedom of the press can distract from the discussion of other aspects of communication policy.

Second, he spoke about Rwanda,and how the Hutu control of the state radio was used to fuel the massacre of the Tutsi. While the clip was cut off so we didn't get to hear the actual point he was making, to me it looked like he was warning of the dangers of the media being controlled by one group...surely a worthwhile warning.

Then, thirdly, on to the Venezuela clip,there the only mention of media was that Chavez started taking the media in the US (he said "in this country") seriously. Nothing about supporting take overs or forcing media outlets out of business.

As to the rest of the analysis by the talking head, well I have no idea, he made some claims for which no supporting evidence was presented as to what the diversity adviser believes. I don'tknow what he believes vis-a-vis government or private controlof the media, but based on the clips Beck showed (specifically the Rwanda clip) I would say that he is opposed to government control,as he seems to be in favour of diversifying the control of the media into the hands of local people rather than the present trend towards amalgamation of media outlets into huge conglomerates. So I doubt highly that they are planning a government takeover of the public media...its the opposite of what they are saying they aim for, so it just makes no sense.

Sorry sanity, but there is no meat on these bones either.



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