Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Is Atheism a religion?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Is Atheism a religion? Page: <<   < prev  15 16 [17] 18 19   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 7:33:04 PM   
eponavet


Posts: 406
Joined: 8/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Atheism is a belief system

Incredible. I had no idea that belief systems could be created without beliefs.



Incredible. I had no idea athiests were just vacuous entities. And Nihilists....no beliefs there, huh?

Seriously though, what would you say is the difference between a view and a belief?

< Message edited by eponavet -- 9/10/2009 7:34:05 PM >

_____________________________

~ You are a child of the Universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here, and whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should ~


(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 321
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 7:35:38 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
everything all white and fluffy


Stop playing under the sheets while we're trying to have a serious conversation!





One of my "godly" given talents is my ability to multitask!!!

its sooo good to be me!!!

i can play and talk seriously at the same time... though.. usually when i talk to men... umm.. yeah...


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 322
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 7:38:24 PM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		Definition of View as a noun..... a conception of a thing; opinion; theory: His view was not supported by the facts.

Definition of Belief as a noun.....1. something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat. 2. confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.

Just for clarity sake....


_____________________________

Resident Hell Cat



(in reply to eponavet)
Profile   Post #: 323
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 7:40:40 PM   
eponavet


Posts: 406
Joined: 8/18/2006
Status: offline 		lol...thanks...

_____________________________

~ You are a child of the Universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here, and whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should ~


(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 324
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 7:42:37 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eponavet

Incredible. I had no idea athiests were just vacuous entities. And Nihilists....no beliefs there, huh?

Atheists who do not describe themselves as something else when  it comes to positively stating their philosophies are vacuous entities. And that's not a put-down...that's a clarification that when someone tells you they are an atheist, you know one...precisely one thing about them:

They do not grant credibility to any theistic god-concept.

That's it. Maybe many atheists will describe themselves as secular humanists or taoists or heck, even pantheists kind teeter on the edge...but that's the only way you know anything about an atheist.

And my existential nihilism is one I've tempered without the need for "belief" at all. So, yes: no beliefs here (at least none worth discussing seriously. Who I think will win the World Series is much more whimsy than belief) .

quote:

ORIGINAL: eponavet

Seriously though, what would say is the difference between a view and a belief?

Emotional investment held in the face of contradicting evidence. A "view" is something held because it is presumed to be factual. In the face of evidence that shows it to be non-factual or intellectually and/or logically flaccid, there's no reason to adhere to it any longer.

A belief is a view that we've put personal stock in (usually the emotional kind). Like a belief that a hypothetical partner's late arrivals from work for no apparent reason isn't because of an affair (even in the face of mounting suspicious tell-tale signs).

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 9/10/2009 7:50:21 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to eponavet)
Profile   Post #: 325
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 7:44:16 PM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		Existential nihilism (the kind NihilusZero practices), the most well-known view, affirms that life has no intrinsic meaning or value.  (definition from www.allaboutphilosophy.org/nihilism.htm)

A bit different from Atheism....


Thats the definition from the website anyway, may not be his exact views on the subject.


< Message edited by Sunnyfey -- 9/10/2009 7:45:17 PM >

_____________________________

Resident Hell Cat



(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 326
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 7:48:19 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Who I think will win the World Series is much more whimsy than belief


Look into that crystal ball and let me know who is winning the Superbowl.... please?????

then look again and let me know when i will get back my ability to spell correctly????

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 9/10/2009 7:49:09 PM >

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 327
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 7:49:27 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Who I think will win the World Series is much more whimsy than belief


Look into that chrystal ball and let me know who is winning the Superbowl.... please?????
You're the one with the fluffy white line, silly!! Send me the info.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 328
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 7:56:02 PM   
eponavet


Posts: 406
Joined: 8/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Existential nihilism (the kind NihilusZero practices), the most well-known view, affirms that life has no intrinsic meaning or value.  (definition from www.allaboutphilosophy.org/nihilism.htm)

A bit different from Atheism....


Thats the definition from the website anyway, may not be his exact views on the subject.



I wasn't trying to imply that they were the same thing, sorry if it appeared that way. What i am trying to say is that his view/belief that life has no intrinsic meaning or value is just that - a belief. It may or may not be true. In the face of the evidence that has presented itself to him, in his life, he has formulated this "opinion" (the second definition for both view and belief) and therefore it has meaning to him. When he dies, he may find that there is something he was not aware of or could not conceptualize before then. I am not claiming that there IS something that will happen to him that will change his view/opinion/belief. I'm just saying that the meaning or lack thereof that he attributes to his existence is a belief. He does have some emotional investment in it, even if it is only the conviction that there ISN'T any belief.....which is a belief.

He can correct me if i'm wrong but - aren't all nihilists atheists but not all atheists are nihilists?

_____________________________

~ You are a child of the Universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here, and whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should ~


(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 329
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 7:57:28 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Who I think will win the World Series is much more whimsy than belief


Look into that chrystal ball and let me know who is winning the Superbowl.... please?????
You're the one with the fluffy white line, silly!! Send me the info.



pft... its only a one way communicator, silly! if i said he spoke to me, someone would have me locked up... and not in the good way!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 330
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 8:10:57 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eponavet

What i am trying to say is that his view/belief that life has no intrinsic meaning or value is just that - a belief. It may or may not be true.

How do you determine the things in your life that are more reliable and "real" than others?

There are ways of measuring the sensibility of one postulation versus another.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eponave

In the face of the evidence that has presented itself to him, in his life, he has formulated this "opinion" (the second definition for both view and belief) and therefore it has meaning to him.

It has no "meaning" to me aside from it being the assessment of our reality that holds up most staunchly to scrutiny.

Opinion is the wrong word. Opinions are views that have no framework inside them. Like, let's say, if I have an opinion you are a Saturnian-based martian engaging in astral projection to have your physical form appear on earth.

That "may or may not be true" also.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eponavet

When he dies, he may find that there is something he was not aware of or could not conceptualize before then.

"Conceptualize"? I'm not sure what you think that means...in any sense other than metahysically permitting myself greater leniency for fanciful delusion based on new agey whimsy.

Tossing out a hypothetical when there is no reason for it to be valid only to point out I could be wrong is equivalent to wagging your finger at someone for betting all they own on the top card of a deck of cards being the 8 of clubs when they were shown the card just a second before it is to be flipped over.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eponavet

I am not claiming that there IS something that will happen to him that will change his view/opinion/belief. I'm just saying that the meaning or lack thereof that he attributes to his existence is a belief. He does have some emotional investment in it, even if it is only the conviction that there ISN'T any belief.....which is a belief.

If that's how you want to define "emotional investment" then everything in the world has "emotional investment" and we can disqualify it as a distinguishing term in the discussion of differentiating "view" from "belief".

If you wanted to provide your own definitions then why did you ask me to provide some in the first place?

Investment in something being factual is not investment in needing it to be right because of emotional reasons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eponavet

He can correct me if i'm wrong but - aren't all nihilists atheists but not all atheists are nihilists?

I haven't spoken with all of either group. My casual thought process about it would not say that is so, however.

Theistic deities could indeed exist and the concepts of "value" and "meaning" would be just as empty. Theism would just add one more subjective sentient entity to the mix.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 9/10/2009 8:18:09 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to eponavet)
Profile   Post #: 331
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 8:12:31 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

pft... its only a one way communicator, silly! if i said he spoke to me, someone would have me locked up... and not in the good way!

What good is a one-way walkie-talkie?!? Jeez!

*throws hands up in a huff*

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 332
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 8:15:33 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Its good only to keep me out of a looney bin and here tormenting you men

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 333
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 8:19:09 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Its good only to keep me out of a looney bin and here tormenting you men

*wags finger*

Bad s-type. Bad!

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 9/10/2009 8:48:57 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 334
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 8:28:19 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

What good is a one-way walkie-talkie?!? Jeez!

Communication isn't only verbal. In fact, our most intimate communications seldom are.

Just a thought... carry on.

K.

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 335
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 8:29:02 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

d-type?



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 336
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 8:49:30 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl



d-type?



Who put the "S" and "D" keys next to each other on the keyboard?!


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 337
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 8:51:12 PM   
eponavet


Posts: 406
Joined: 8/18/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero


Opinion is the wrong word. Opinions are views that have no framework inside them. Like, let's say, if I have an opinion you are a Saturnian-based martian engaging in astral projection to have your physical form appear on earth.

That "may or may not be true" also.
Not all opinions are as far fetched as the one you chose to use in your example. Are you saying that ALL opinions are views that have no framework inside them?


quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

If that's how you want to define "emotional investment" then everything in the world has "emotional investment" and we can disqualify it as a distinguishing term in the discussion of differentiating "view" from "belief".

If you wanted to provide your own definitions then why did you ask me to provide some in the first place?

Investment in something being factual is not investment in needing it to be right because of emotional reasons.



I asked in order to get YOUR response, which you didn't give - someone else did and i responded to what they said. And, in fact, the definitions they provided were fairly synonomous, which was my point. The terms are ambiguous. Your have provided additional clarification regarding emotional investment in an opinion/view etc to distinguish it as a belief. Thanks. I happen to disagree because beliefs also change over time, through experiences and learning etc. Maybe at that point, in your opinion, they would have always been considered views - since the person holding them was able to change them in the face of new or different information. But if the person holding them believed them at one point and then didn't at another, wasn't it still a belief when it was being held?
quote:

ORIGINAL: eponavet

He can correct me if i'm wrong but - aren't all nihilists atheists but not all atheists are nihilists?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
I haven't spoken with all of either group. My casual thought process about it would not say that is so, however.

Theistic deities could indeed exist and the concepts of "value" and "meaning" would be just as empty. Theism would just add one more subjective sentient entity to the mix.


Interesting point in your last statement....which would only apply to nihilists since atheists would deny the existence of deities, correct?



_____________________________

~ You are a child of the Universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here, and whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the Universe is unfolding as it should ~


(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 338
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 8:51:13 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

What good is a one-way walkie-talkie?!? Jeez!

Communication isn't only verbal. In fact, our most intimate communications seldom are.

Just a thought... carry on.

K.

Yeah, but they usually refer to the ones who talk about getting 'touchy-feely' with their deities as blasphemers (or worse).

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 9/10/2009 8:52:01 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 339
RE: Is Atheism a religion? - 9/10/2009 8:54:17 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl



d-type?



Who put the "S" and "D" keys next to each other on the keyboard?!



O
M
G...od!!!

Quit scaring me like that!!!!

im just a poor, helpless, defensive s-type who gets textually beat up by you D-types and.... sighs... now i gotta call the white line!!!

see what you did!?!?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 340
Page:   <<   < prev  15 16 [17] 18 19   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Is Atheism a religion? Page: <<   < prev  15 16 [17] 18 19   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109