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RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/8/2009 7:08:37 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you for your reply fawne. Am glad i am not the only one enjoying this thread.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/8/2009 7:58:27 PM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		I rather enjoy being pampered, so this hasn't been an issue for me in the past. I have a brand spanking new female submissive playpartner, and we were just negotiating and discussing things like what her needs and limits were in terms of play, aftercare, bringing elements of service into our interaction, etc. She really enjoys making people happy by doing things for them, but feels much more comfortable doing outright service-oriented things with women than men. Most of the men I've played casually with (back a few years ago when I was doing so between relationships) tended to have me sit down all cuddled up while they wiped down the bondage furniture, put the toys away, got me food or a snack, etc. They tended to be very solicitous and pampering. I asked if she enjoyed that, or if she'd prefer to serve me by taking care of those aspects, and perhaps presenting the water or food a bit ceremoniously, or if she'd prefer to just grab stuff ourselves informally afterward. She said that my doing it for her in that context would make her a little uncomfortable, and she'd much prefer to be of service to me. Granted, we're not in a romantic/sexual relationship, and she's more my bottom/playpartner, *not* my submissive. She seems to have a similar outlook to yours about this kind of thing. She has a high level of self-esteem, so I don't think that's your issue necessarily, either, just that she enjoys expressing caring by doing/giving rather than receiving.

(in reply to FawneTwo)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/9/2009 3:43:13 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Exactly, i LOVE doing for others, and if i end up with this Dominant will just have to wrap my head around that this is doing something for Him and look at it from that light. Given my preference (and yes i know that is not the case) i would pamper others and get great pleasure out of doing so. Thanks for your reply.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/9/2009 4:59:30 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
It took me years to learn how to simply say thank you to a compliment and not try to deflect it with some smart assed comment.
heartfelt


Heartfelt, your inability to accept someone doing nice things for you comes from the same place your inability to accept a compliment sincerely comes from.

Why do you feel you don't deserve it, aren't worthwhile enough? Because the solution lies there. However this may be a case of the universe giving you what you need, not what you want. Allow it, learn from it.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/9/2009 5:12:25 AM   
heartfeltsub


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Joined: 11/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
It took me years to learn how to simply say thank you to a compliment and not try to deflect it with some smart assed comment.
heartfelt


Heartfelt, your inability to accept someone doing nice things for you comes from the same place your inability to accept a compliment sincerely comes from.

Why do you feel you don't deserve it, aren't worthwhile enough? Because the solution lies there. However this may be a case of the universe giving you what you need, not what you want. Allow it, learn from it.


i am getting the strong feeling that the section i bolded may in fact be what is happening. Thank you for your reply.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/9/2009 8:12:42 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		heartfelt, I hope things work out wonderfully for you! I'd suggest you do some journalling about why you're having trouble accepting these things, what "good things done for you" you *would* actively enjoy and feel pampered by. What feeds and nurtures *your* needs? Think of that as separate from him enjoying getting his hands all over you while he bathes and massages you, just as he might enjoy touching you in any other way.

As far as the compliments go, I never have had trouble with graciously accepting them. I prefer milder ones "better!" (or preferably *specifically* what I improved or did well) instead of "perfect." "You're cute/pretty/sexy," "That outfit looks lovely on you," "You have such expressive eyes" made my heart sing, but "You're the most beautiful woman in the world" or other over the top ones felt like they were putting me on - it still seems a little bit fake. "Good girl" is nice from my Master, or from my previous dominant, but I'd rather they tell me more specifically what they liked, and from someone I wasn't involved with, it felt outright patronising and condescending. Is it that you didn't or don't believe that you're beautiful and skilled, or just that you feel a little flustered, especially if the specific compliment feels like an exaggeration?

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 9/9/2009 8:13:43 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/9/2009 9:19:33 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andalusite

heartfelt, I hope things work out wonderfully for you! I'd suggest you do some journalling about why you're having trouble accepting these things, what "good things done for you" you *would* actively enjoy and feel pampered by. What feeds and nurtures *your* needs? Think of that as separate from him enjoying getting his hands all over you while he bathes and massages you, just as he might enjoy touching you in any other way.

As far as the compliments go, I never have had trouble with graciously accepting them. I prefer milder ones "better!" (or preferably *specifically* what I improved or did well) instead of "perfect." "You're cute/pretty/sexy," "That outfit looks lovely on you," "You have such expressive eyes" made my heart sing, but "You're the most beautiful woman in the world" or other over the top ones felt like they were putting me on - it still seems a little bit fake. "Good girl" is nice from my Master, or from my previous dominant, but I'd rather they tell me more specifically what they liked, and from someone I wasn't involved with, it felt outright patronising and condescending. Is it that you didn't or don't believe that you're beautiful and skilled, or just that you feel a little flustered, especially if the specific compliment feels like an exaggeration?


i was just going to reply, but then i knew i would forget some of the things in your post that i wanted to reference, so a quote works better. my needs are met meeting other people's needs. That is what brings me the most joy, in all honestly. Other than that, i like quiet times, just being held, cuddled, maybe watching tv or both reading quietly, that sort of thing.

i loved hearing good girl from my former Dominant and i can accept the same type of compliments that you mentioned from people i know, i just say thank you. If they are over the top, they irritate me. i feel and know that i am very skilled at many things, and have no trouble if someone tells me that i did a good job at a, b or c.  i, however, am not beautiful and never have been. Cute, pretty, attractive, i can deal with, beautiful feels like a lie to me. i am fairly certain it all goes back to my childhood where it was expected that i do well at everything that i did, but there was no emphasis and never a comment about any sort of attractiveness. Also as someone who was sexually abused as a child, i shunned being attractive for many years, it felt safer. That is now healed for the most part and i can be attractive and can thank people when they compliment me on being pretty or attractive, it was just work to get to that point.

Thank you for your reply, they are very helpful and insightful.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/10/2009 2:03:52 PM   
MaamJay


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Another great answer agirl and something that i will have to think about. i will give it more thought, but an off the cuff answer would be, anyone doing for me period makes me uncomfortable. i don't like, it makes me feel needy, weak and uncomfortable like the roles are beng reversed. It doesn't matter D-type or s-type either one. i don't like being taken care of when i'm sick, the worse torture someone could do to me is tie me to a chair and not let me help when work needs to be done. i have a terrible time answering the question about what i want for a birthday or christmas present, that sort of thing. i can and do accept those presents and appreciate them, but i don't like asking for anything specific and if forced won't mention anything costly. i know, i know, i'm weird. Thank you again for the great reply and the great question.

heartfelt 


I think here (I added the bold) is the crux of the matter. And this is likely to sound a bit harsh but I offer it for consideration. It seems to Me heartfelt that what you have been regarding as "submissive service" is actually your way of being in control. It's a way for you to be the strong one, the not weak or needy one, you are basically turning the Dominant into the needy one, needing your service! So you are, in essence, topping from the bottom by exercising the control/power in the relationship by your service. As serving is what you WANT to do and seems to be inherent in your nature to do ... you are not really submitting by doing it, you are basically getting your jollies!

Naturally then, to receive what you perceive as service from another is going to thrust you right out of your comfort zone because you will experience it as a loss of control. And you're right, that is scary! Can be very uncomfortable indeed. It's also, in My book, the necessary prerequisite for submission. That doesn't mean to say that a sub of Mine will spend all their time out of their comfort zone, that wouldn't work for Me or him/her, but they sure will spend some of their time there. I have long said that submission isn't submission if it doesn't come at some "cost" to the submissive ... and that cost can be their relinquishing of control and graciously receiving what I choose to give, be it a flogging or a massage! Or letting Me care for them when they are sick or have had an operation etc.

Not all s-types can cope with this, not all s-types can truly submit. Many can only serve which is fine as long as they (and the Dominant) aren't deluded about the placement of control in this. I suspect that this new D you are talking with (assuming peppermint wasn't right with the bait and switch idea) is one who wants a full relationship with His girl and that He chooses to exercise His right to be affectionate any way He likes. He may be sufficiently perceptive enough to realise you have an issue with this and could be probing for your response to see whether you are able to relinquish control or not. Or He may have just been lucky enough to accidentally hit on this. Either way, full kudos to you for realising it's an issue and for seeking help with it.

As sub to Master, i had a few issues with this at first though it was more from an angle of what i "should" do as judged by outside parties rather than from a desire to maintain control. As one who often leads, i was actively seeking to yield control and just follow for a change, that was an awesome relief! Now if He wants to bring me to an oral orgasm and not want me to do something for Him then i just regard myself as a lucky girl that day ... but i always offer to do something for Him so it's His choice as to whether i do or don't do it. If i am unwell, i am so grateful for His tender ministrations and i have learned that the best submission in that case is to not go on about how i should be doing it for Him instead as that annoys Him! Allowing someone to "serve" you when they want to is sometimes the greatest gift we can give. I hope this has been of help!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

_____________________________

Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
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RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/10/2009 4:57:52 PM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Maam Jay, thank you for your reply and yes it has been of help. Yes i realize that this is an area of weakness.  While i don't have a mental problem submitting to more pain than i like, as i too believe that submission without cost is not submission (my opinion), if what i need to submit to is pleasant instead of painful, my head doesn't process it nearly as well. As the Dominant that i mentioned in the OP and i are just in the talking phase, it was more like an accidental hit on a topic, as opposed to something that He sought to do. my internal reaction to His comments, prompted me to deal with an area that i could see the weakness.  Thank you again for your reply.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to MaamJay)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/10/2009 8:12:48 PM   
NuevaVida


Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Hi heartfelt,

I have had to adjust to similar feelings lately.  My owner is pretty insistent on doing certain things for me, because it gives him pleasure to do so.  This was really awkward for me at first.  For example, loading and unloading the car is something I am NOT to do (this was emphasized just this past weekend), while cooking, and cleaning the kitchen is an expectation for me to do.  He prefers to open the door for me (buildings and car).  He prefers to spoil me in certain ways, and to be spoiled in return in other ways.

What I finally wrapped my mind around was, in trying to do the things for myself that he wanted to do for me, I was taking away from his pleasure.  As a friend of mine likes to say - "Serve as he wishes you to serve, not as you wish to serve."  In my case, he wanted a baby girl to enjoy, and that means a girl to sometimes coddle and spoil (sometimes, not always lol).  He wants me as that girl.  And I have to say, given my own history, once I came to grips with that and got rid of the "But this isn't what D/s is supposed to be" soundtrack in my head, I began to really enjoy what was happening.

As porcelain said - it's his way of expressing himself to you. Stop fighting it. 


_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.



(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/11/2009 3:26:13 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you so much for your reply Nueva. That is the sound track that plays in my head, because that is not my experience with D/s or with life in general. Porcelaine and you are both correct. Thanks again for your reply.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/13/2009 10:54:44 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
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quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

porcelaine, thank you for replying. i realize that it is my issue, i don't know how to receive well and i realize that. and i would (if i end up in a relationship with the Dominant that i was speaking about) would not say no please don't do that. i am asking how, when i know it is my issue on not being able to receive well, how do i get over that. Your answer did answer some of that and intellectually i can and do agree with what you wrote, i am just not sure how to deal with it emotionally. To me, and this will probably sound odd, to me i feel more in control when i am serving and out of control when i am being done for. i remember Lucky Albatross mentioning something like that once and it did indeed resonate with me. Thank you again porcelaine for your reply.

heartfelt

Maybe that's the point? Releasing yourself to what your dominant desires and not just what YOU want is part of the process. Frankly there are those of us that on occasion like to pamper our toys and not just take them out of the drawer for some schmackity smack. Many can also use this as a way to tease and increase anticipation leading into a scene of orgasm denial for example.
HOW you go about accepting your dominants desires is a highly individual thing. The reality is it's what pleases him in that moment, why are you fighting that? Personally I enjoy soaping and scrubbing my toys in a couple shower, because I want him to look his best and like to torture with the lufah then send him off to work. It's my will, helps him look good which is pleasing, and gives him something a little naughty to think about all day which keeps a smile on both of our faces...why do you believe that to be something that's "less than"? 

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

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RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/13/2009 11:03:33 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
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Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Thank you for your answer Loki. i get what you said and i don't disagree. In fact until the Dominant that i am talking with starting saying He enjoys doing stuff like i am asking about, i never realized that it was even an issue for me. It took me years to learn how to simply say thank you to a compliment and not try to deflect it with some smart assed comment. i know that the issue is with me, not that there is anything "wrong" in a Dominant chosing to do nice things for His/Her submissive. i just don't know how to accept it well, it makes me uncomfortable and i was and am looking for help in how to deal with the uncomfortableness. Thank you again for your reply.

heartfelt

So is what you're trying to say that you like and want a sadistic master and not someone that would think about doing nice things? or are you saying that you don't know how to submit to things that make you feel out of control?
While so much of the power in WIITWD really does lie in the subs power to say stop, the decision of how cruel to be lies with the master. The decision of the master that's chosen however, is all yours. If you truely think you want a sadist you need to also anticipate that this is something that they would take great pleasure in exploiting because it does make you so umcomfortable. So in asking for someone "more hard on you", you may actually attract someone that would push the fact that you're holding back.
quote:

Caring for one's submissive not mean just food and shelter. It also means caring for their emotional well-being as well. 


For dominants this is kink 101, if you break your toys they generally don't come back.

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

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RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/13/2009 11:20:16 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
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From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

For dominants this is kink 101, if you break your toys they generally don't come back.

While this is certainly important to consider, the converse (that plenty of toys may not know how to best deal with and assess their current level of fracture or how to best repair it) can be just as much a factor.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/13/2009 11:52:10 PM   
theRose4U


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Joined: 8/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

For dominants this is kink 101, if you break your toys they generally don't come back.

While this is certainly important to consider, the converse (that plenty of toys may not know how to best deal with and assess their current level of fracture or how to best repair it) can be just as much a factor.


And thus the reason that kink is a journey and not a destination.

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/14/2009 12:09:04 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U

And thus the reason that kink is a journey and not a destination.

The kink is the easy part! It's all that custom fitting, welding and shaping of dynamics that makes everything a labor-intensive project!


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to theRose4U)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/14/2009 3:34:08 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Rose, thank you for your response. First of all just to be clear, the Dominant that i mentioned in the OP is not my Master, He is just someone that i have been talking with. i recognized a weakness in myself and sought information on how to deal with what i perceive to be something that could potentially hold me back in my next relationship. After reading the posts from various people, i believe the root of why i feel the way i do is multifacted, one is how i see D/s relationships and how every D/s relationship i have been in up until this point has gone. Second, is my own childhood and how i receive "good" things. And third just comes from the fact that i am very service oriented and i am simply more comfortable serving. Thank you again for your response.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

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Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/14/2009 3:52:49 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Maam Jay, thank you for your reply and yes it has been of help. Yes i realize that this is an area of weakness.  While i don't have a mental problem submitting to more pain than i like, as i too believe that submission without cost is not submission (my opinion), if what i need to submit to is pleasant instead of painful, my head doesn't process it nearly as well. As the Dominant that i mentioned in the OP and i are just in the talking phase, it was more like an accidental hit on a topic, as opposed to something that He sought to do. my internal reaction to His comments, prompted me to deal with an area that i could see the weakness.  Thank you again for your reply.

heartfelt


the highlighted para caught my eye.  i was thinking about this the other day.

for myself and i think in other people too, the idea that pain can bring us pleasure is almost against our early programming.  we are taught from an early age that pain is unpleasant and we carry that through to the here and now.  im begining to learn that i can convert pain to pleasure, something i never knew i could do.  im also in a situation where my M wants to give me pleasure, something i havent ever met before - my pleasure is His pleasure, He gets a kick out of seeing me enjoy myself, again, a new thing to me.  its all about turning youre conditioning around.

now i see it this way.  if by enjoying myself gives Him pleasure then i am serving Him in the way He wishes.  so now the 'struggle' has turned on its head, my struggle now is to find pleasure in pain, so im working on that, with His help.  its still submission absolutely, because its doing this His way rather than holding on to my old beliefs that i shouldnt be enjoying myself, which now, already, sounds kinda nuts to me.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/14/2009 4:33:07 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		*Smiles at lally*

Before she became Mine, My girl had very negative connotations about her birthday. she would have happily hid under a rock till the day had past. Right from the start I worked to change that, the feeling is there because of negative crap dumped on her by others over the years, I worked to give her back something that she had lost.

Just over a week ago it was her birthday again, now whilst one of the things We did was indeed give her ass the best beating it has had in quite a while, that didn't make Me smile even half as much as when she turned and said that it had been her bestest birthday EVER. she had enjoyed herself and that in itself was something I was VERY pleased with. I didn't let her ignore it, I didn't let her hide, I made her accept the treats I got her (She did have a problem fitting all that ice cream into a fairly full freezer, oh what hardship!). I decided she would have fun and she DID have fun, which in turn was pleasing to Me! (Counteracting/repairing the crap that others had done in the past was a BIG bonus though!)


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to lally2)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Accepting Service From A Dominant With Grace - 9/14/2009 6:52:30 AM   
lally2


Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

*Smiles at lally*

.




_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 80
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