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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

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ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Firm, the middle of a speech to congress is not the appropriate place to make such a statement, unless they are using political theater to manuever with.

I don't disagree, Orion.

Firm

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A 15 year old walks in a bar and orders a beer. There is a law on the books stating that anyone under 21 should not be sold a drink. The bartender is no authority to ask for and verify an ID prior to service. Currently that is how the health care bill reads regarding the issue. That is the truth behind Senator Wilson's accusation. President Obama would prefer this died for that truth not to get out.

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

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A 15 year old walks in a bar and orders a beer. There is a law on the books stating that anyone under 21 should not be sold a drink. The bartender is no authority to ask for and verify an ID prior to service. Currently that is how the health care bill reads regarding the issue. That is the truth behind Senator Wilson's accusation. President Obama would prefer this died for that truth not to get out.

You mean to tell me that they don't card people at bars in the US? I find that hard to believe. And under this plan, wouldn't people on the public plan have a card just like any other insurance,a card they show so the hospital/doctor knows who to bill?

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


Keep spinning, Spinner.

The topic at hand isn't about "Death panels". It's about Wilson's exclamation, and the fact that he was apparently following Obama's own advice.

The "That's a lie!" interjection was in reference to Obama's claim that the proposed health care plan couldn't be used by illegal immigrants.

I understand you wish to change the focus of the discussion, because your case is weak on the issue, but I'm not interested.

Thanks, though.

Firm

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


Under any version of the pending health care legislation there would be no similar requirement to proof eligibility. Remember there is no standard US picture ID card. Our Social Security cards haven't been updated to include even basic bar coding, since they were introduced in 1936. Fraudulent SS cards are common, however not even this basic, and piratically meaningless (commonly you need a SS AND another form of ID to get the most basic of government services or even a drivers license in the US), requirement shows up under enforcement. Many other government entitlement programs currently have enforcement and eligibility verification, pointing to some agenda being exposed when its be deliberately excluded in this instance.

Obviously this isn't part of curtailing the $500 Billion in fraud reference by the President.

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I will admit that I'm not a big follower of illegal alien issues. Can you fill me in a bit on places to look to see a) what ID will be needed to get into any private or public health option if this legislation is passed and B) where it says that anyone, without any proper id can get into a plan and receive helathcare?

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the lack of a specific verification mechanism constitutes a loophole that would allow illegal immigrants to get benefits despite the legal prohibition. Republican Rep. Dean Heller of Nevada proposed an amendment to the bill that would have required the use of the Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements program to check the citizenship of anyone applying for federal coverage or affordability credits. SAVE is the program used by Medicaid and similar entitlement programs. That amendment was voted down along party lines by the House Ways and Means Committee.

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Democrats Vote Against Making Sure Illegal Aliens Don�t Get Subsidized Health Insurance

Democrats voted against an amendment offered by Rep. Dean Heller (R-NV) to better screen applicants for subsidized health care to ensure they are actually citizens or otherwise entitled to it. The underlying bill is insufficient for the purpose of preventing illegal aliens from accessing the bill’s proposed benefits, as it does not provide mechanisms allowing those administering the program to ensure illegal aliens cannot access taxpayer-funded subsidies and benefits.

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No id? You mean like qualifying to be part of the security force for the US Embassy in Kabul?
"One recruit was allegedly hired even though he had no identification, not even a driver's license, to prove who he was."
The State Dept didn't have a problem with that occurring, so why would a different Fed agency have a problem with people getting free medical care without proof that they qualify? It isn't that surprising.

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol
This makes me wonder how medical ethics and the Hippocratic Oath should be dealt with, according to those who are finding yet a new reason to be against health reform (I note that seemingly every week, a new argument replaces the old one, as myths and lies are debunked on a regular basis).

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Should a doctor refuse to treat a patient because s/he didn't have the right paperwork?

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
83% of the US population says yes they should refuse.

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

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ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
83% of the US population says yes they should refuse.

Finally, a real death panel emerges!

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

No, what is surprising is that the irony eludes you, who likes to think of himself as such a master of sarcasm.

Very surprising  !

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It seems you are right, while everybody may have to show a card to get treated,apparently there is no requirement to show ID to get that card. Here in Ontario you have to show a picture ID and a birth certificate or a certificate of citizenship as well as proof of residency to get an OHIP (our health plan) card.

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Why do you think any attempt to do something similar regarding any of the health care Bills being considered has been rejected?

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Medicare for Dummies

Contradictions worthy of the Marx Brothers.

The thing about the bully pulpit is that Presidents can make the most fantastic claims and it takes days to sort the reality from the myths. So as a public service, let's try to navigate the, er, remarkable Medicare discussion that President Obama delivered on Wednesday. It isn't easy.

Mr. Obama began by depicting a crisis in the entitlement state, noting that "our health-care system is placing an unsustainable burden on taxpayers," especially Medicare. Unless we find a way to cauterize this fiscal hemorrhage, "we will eventually be spending more on Medicare than every other government program combined. Put simply, our health-care program is our deficit problem. Nothing else even comes close."

On this score he's right. Medicare's unfunded liability—the gap between revenues and promised benefits—is currently some $37 trillion over the next 75 years. Yet the President uses this insolvency as an argument to justify the creation of another health-care entitlement, this time for most everyone under age 65. It's like a variation on the old Marx Brothers routine: "The soup is terrible and the portions are too small." 

(Full article here).