RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At?

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SpinnerofTales -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 6:47:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Well it certainly emphasizes the anomaly of the Electoral College. But then again we have our inexplicable institutions as well. This is true. After all, you Canadians have a national anthem that has the same first four bars as "Oh my papa"

Arpig -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 6:48:46 PM)
Not to mention that we have had so many versions of it that no two people know the same version [:D]

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 6:53:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Not to mention that we have had so many versions of it that no two people know the same version [:D] Yes, but you have an absolutely wonderful tradition associated with it. In my experience, every time the song is sung or played, a hockey game is played within seconds after the last note. I've seen it happen way too many times for anyone to tell me there's no causal relationship there.

Arpig -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 6:59:09 PM)
Ah yes...hockey season is coming!!! Stock up the beer fridge and lay in a supply of Doritos!!

Leiren -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 6:59:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales Which is why I apologizied and attempted to reframe the question is a more constructive light. There are times for political humor, satire and even a degree of showmanship towards one's point. There are also times when it is inappropriate. In this case, I fully admit to stepping over the line. And, when it was pointed out to me that I had done so, I tried to correct it. I'm sorry, Spinner. You were a great help to me in providing me with info I didn't know about the freeze on COLA for people who collect social security. I still disagree with the reasoning but at least I now know that it was Gerald Ford who made the decision rather than Obama. I still believe that Obama's negligence in dealing with the situation is abhorrent, but he's too busy taking from those who DO have something that other people want to be bothered. But I will still maintain that the very use of the word 'teabaggers' is still a deliberate provocation on your part to trivialize and demean. Even the MSM has stopped using that term after they took so much heat over it. But you still won't let it go. It seems to me that you delight in it and despite the fact that even the MSM has stopped using it, you keep bringing it up. It's just coming across as childish and churlish at this point. JMHO.

Arpig -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 7:02:13 PM)
quote: I still believe that Obama's negligence in dealing with the situation is abhorrent, but he's too busy taking from those who DO have something that other people want to be bothered. Funny, I haven't heard of any new taxes being levied...and isn't it Congress that does that anyway...not the President? Its easy to say he is taking from people who have something, but think it through...just who the fuck else is the government supposed to get money from...people who don't have any? Of course they are going to tax those who have money, there's no other source of revenue now is there?

Leiren -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 7:18:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig Funny, I haven't heard of any new taxes being levied...and isn't it Congress that does that anyway...not the President? Its easy to say he is taking from people who have something, but think it through...just who the fuck else is the government supposed to get money from...people who don't have any? Of course they are going to tax those who have money, there's no other source of revenue now is there? When any political party in the U.S. has the majority in office, they push their own agenda. That's why I am absolutely opposed to the two party system in the United States. I've stated over and over that I campaigned for a third party candidate in the 2008 election and still have hopes, that in my own lifetime, that a third party candidate will win a U.S. presidential election. As far as 'who is the President going to take money from'? It shouldn't be senior citizens. If Obama wants to advance his agenda in taking from one group what they rightfully earned and give it to another group who's too lazy to work then by my definition he's clearly far left to what most Americans consider themselves to be. He clearly stated in his presidential campaign that he would 'redistribute the wealth'. I know a lot of you don't consider that socialism, but for the life of me I can't figure out why you deny it for what it is.

tazzygirl -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 7:28:35 PM)
Tell me, how much money did your mother? lose with the absence of the COLA? That was your initial complaint, yes? And when that was proven wrong, you move on to other targets, all with Obama in your sites. Which is still cool But, explain to me, if you will... if anyone can.. who benefited from the condition our country, and finances, finds themselves in at this moment?

Leiren -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 7:36:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Tell me, how much money did your mother? lose with the absence of the COLA? That was your initial complaint, yes? And when that was proven wrong, you move on to other targets, all with Obama in your sites. Which is still cool But, explain to me, if you will... if anyone can.. who benefited from the condition our country, and finances, finds themselves in at this moment? My mother's projected loss of income from her social security check is nearly $100.00. That's a huge amount for someone on a fixed income. The rest of your question I don't understand and am not willing to continue debating with you. You're the type of person who will always show their butts to have the final word, and frankly you bore me. And don't try to bait me again. I'm not falling for your baiting. You seem to take glee and pride in attempting to prove that younger people that are capable of working should be taking money from elderly or disabled people. As I said in a post last night, most of these people whining about having no insurance could actually afford it if they were willing to make some sacrifices in their luxury items like ipods, iphones, big screen TV'S and the latest model of car to drive. And, oh yes. They could give up their internet access and stay off CM twenty four hours a day as some of you seem to do. The senior citizens and the disabled don't have those luxuries to give up. They're already just scraping by.

FirmhandKY -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 7:38:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Tell me, how much money did your mother? lose with the absence of the COLA? That was your initial complaint, yes? And when that was proven wrong, you move on to other targets, all with Obama in your sites. Which is still cool But, explain to me, if you will... if anyone can.. who benefited from the condition our country, and finances, finds themselves in at this moment? Statists. Firm

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 7:48:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leiren As I said in a post last night, most of these people whining about having no insurance could actually afford it if they were willing to make some sacrifices in their luxury items like ipods, iphones, big screen TV'S and the latest model of car to drive. And, oh yes. They could give up their internet access and stay off CM twenty four hours a day as some of you seem to do. Yes, you did. And when I asked you then to back up that assertion with some supporting data, you didn't provide any. Until you do, I don't think anyone will take your assertion seriously.

SpinnerofTales -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 7:56:23 PM)
quote: As far as 'who is the President going to take money from'? It shouldn't be senior citizens. If Obama wants to advance his agenda in taking from one group what they rightfully earned and give it to another group who's too lazy to work then by my definition he's clearly far left to what most Americans consider themselves to be. He clearly stated in his presidential campaign that he would 'redistribute the wealth'. I know a lot of you don't consider that socialism, but for the life of me I can't figure out why you deny it for what it is. ORIGINAL: Leiren Leiren, socialism is a broad brush. The very social security that first brought you to this discussion is a form of socialism. So is Medicare. Both were roundly criticized as socialism when they were first reported. If you wanted to remove all socialism from this country, you would have to take away minimum wage laws (the government telling private industry what they must pay their employees), unemployment insurance (the government providing money for those who are not working at a loss compared to what is taken in and therefore spending general tax monies), child labor laws (the government abrogating parents rights by telling them when their children are ready to work) and so on. If you want to see a government without socialism, read about the age of the robber barons of the 19th century. It makes ugly reading. As for health care going to "people too lazy to work", don't be drawn into that. One of the robber barons I spoke of above described the process at work there so: "I can hire half the working class to kill the other half". The divide and conquer philosophy has been used for years to make those who should stand together go to war against each other. I am not saying there are not those who abuse the system, but the vast majority do not. I see this happening already in the health care debate. When it should be "Should affordable health care be made available for everyone?" I see "Why should I pay for people who smoke?" "Why should I pay for people who are fat?" In short, 'Why should I join with other people who have their own flaws so we all have something better". I am not, in this post saying that any given plan is the answer, by the way. I am saying that the "If we set up programs to help people who need help, it will overwhelmingly go to the undeserving" model of things is usually incorrect. As for redistributing the wealth, the wealth has already been redistributed. The gap between the wealth controlled by the average working person and the wealth controlled by the upper 10% of the population is greater than at any time since world war II (it may be longer but I am staying with what I am sure of). Over the last eight years, that gap has widened frighteningly. What then, is so wrong with the government altering the policies that have at every step assisted that redistribution to allow wealth distribution to return to a level that is healthier for the "other" 90%? And finally, I have forgone the use of the term "teabagger" in any serious post I make. I have and will continue to use that only in such tongue in cheek posts I might make. I do view political satire and humor to be a valid form of political expression. It is my hope that the former can be told from the latter without too much trouble.

tazzygirl -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 8:00:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Leiren quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Tell me, how much money did your mother? lose with the absence of the COLA? That was your initial complaint, yes? And when that was proven wrong, you move on to other targets, all with Obama in your sites. Which is still cool But, explain to me, if you will... if anyone can.. who benefited from the condition our country, and finances, finds themselves in at this moment? My mother's projected loss of income from her social security check is nearly $100.00. That's a huge amount for someone on a fixed income. The rest of your question I don't understand and am not willing to continue debating with you. You're the type of person who will always show their butts to have the final word, and frankly you bore me. And don't try to bait me again. I'm not falling for your baiting. You seem to take glee and pride in attempting to prove that younger people that are capable of working should be taking money from elderly or disabled people. As I said in a post last night, most of these people whining about having no insurance could actually afford it if they were willing to make some sacrifices in their luxury items like ipods, iphones, big screen TV'S and the latest model of car to drive. And, oh yes. They could give up their internet access and stay off CM twenty four hours a day as some of you seem to do. The senior citizens and the disabled don't have those luxuries to give up. They're already just scraping by. Wow, talk about assuming things! Show me where i have "taken" this "glee and pride?"

tazzygirl -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 8:02:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Tell me, how much money did your mother? lose with the absence of the COLA? That was your initial complaint, yes? And when that was proven wrong, you move on to other targets, all with Obama in your sites. Which is still cool But, explain to me, if you will... if anyone can.. who benefited from the condition our country, and finances, finds themselves in at this moment? Statists. Firm Hmmm.. i seem to recall many fat, fat bonuses given out... but i guess we all forgot those huh.

tazzygirl -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 8:23:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda quote: ORIGINAL: Leiren As I said in a post last night, most of these people whining about having no insurance could actually afford it if they were willing to make some sacrifices in their luxury items like ipods, iphones, big screen TV'S and the latest model of car to drive. And, oh yes. They could give up their internet access and stay off CM twenty four hours a day as some of you seem to do. Yes, you did. And when I asked you then to back up that assertion with some supporting data, you didn't provide any. Until you do, I don't think anyone will take your assertion seriously. I want a car... I want a big screen TV... I want an ipod and an iphone!!! The car dont even have to be brand new! sighs guess i gotta go find that third job so i wont be seen as lazy according to some, huh

openmindedslave -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 8:38:06 PM)
I think the idea of being mad has to do with the idea of a goverment being More involved in peoples health and their personal economic future. While this may be examples of the goverment doing certain programs well out here for the benefit of the citizens , most people feel the govt involvement is not always as successful as the private sector can do on their own. The real problems of decreasing salaries, reduced retirement savings accounts and to some people out here a lower standard of living for millions of Americans is very scarry . The Conservatives nor the President have all the answers and many will be hurt in what ever is finally decided concerning Health insurance. But something has to be done to get this Health inflation cost under control or else it wikl harm every business and every American with cost so high that we will all being doing with out to pay the cost of just having insurance .

tazzygirl -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 8:45:21 PM)
And thats just it. Those who have insurance, even Medicare, are paying for those who do not. Fact of finances. A healthy country would mean lower costs. But, what benefit is it for insurance companies to have lower costs? If we are healthier, they wont have the excuses to raise rates. If cheaper options are available that give preventative care, what excuse will they use then? It all comes down to money.. pure and simple.. and the ones getting the money are the insurance companies. There is no incentive for a better health system if we allow them to continue as they have been.

servantforuse -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 9:43:03 PM)
You are right tazzy. Those of us, and I am one of them, who have insurance are paying for everyone else. We always have. Why change anything ? We will still be the ones paying for everyone else.

DomKen -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 9:59:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse You are right tazzy. Those of us, and I am one of them, who have insurance are paying for everyone else. We always have. Why change anything ? We will still be the ones paying for everyone else. Because our healthcare costs are pricing our businesses out of competiveness in the world economy? My company has had to get almost completely out of software development since we can't compete with India's labor costs. Now we do a lot of systems design work and Euorpean and Canadian consultants are undercutting us by about 10% in this field. If our health insurance premiums were more in line with what they pay we would be much more directly price competitive.

Arpig -> RE: What Are the Conservatives So Mad At? (9/14/2009 11:55:53 PM)
quote: As far as 'who is the President going to take money from'? It shouldn't be senior citizens. If Obama wants to advance his agenda in taking from one group what they rightfully earned and give it to another group who's too lazy to work then by my definition he's clearly far left to what most Americans consider themselves to be. He clearly stated in his presidential campaign that he would 'redistribute the wealth'. I know a lot of you don't consider that socialism, but for the life of me I can't figure out why you deny it for what it is. Well for starters, that is what all governments do and have done since time began, they redistribute wealth so as to reward their backers. That's how it works...always has and always will.And I noticed you ducked my questions,but that's OK, I really didn't expect you to answer them,and am not surprised that you brought out the "socialist" crap. I am one and I know one when I see one, and he ain't one...OK. So he's stated that he's going to redistribute wealth...he's honest about it at any rate, unlike most pols.You complain that he's going to take money that people rightfully earned...well guess what, that's called taxation and its as old as government. perhaps you wish he'd only take money that wasn't rightfully earned? A bit harder to do, you know, seeing as that sort of money is usually hidden & carefully laundered. As for a 3rd party candidate winning the Presidency,well to be honest I'd be all for it, somebody well on the left, a real socialist who wouldn't be afraid of the insurance companies perhaps? As much as I'd like to see it, I honestly don't think I will, not in this lifetime at any rate...maybe if the Hindus and Buddhists are right about reincarnation I may see it happen in two or three lifetimes down the road, but not before then. But go on working for them, I support you 100% in your efforts and I admire your conviction.

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