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RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/17/2009 8:44:54 PM   
FelineFae


Posts: 7756
Joined: 1/23/2009
From: i do wander everywhere...
Status: offline 		"Grandmother," i asked, "Why were manners invented?"
"Well," she said, "It's nice to make people feel good and comfortable. Manners were invented to make it easy for everyone to do that for each other."
"Grandmother," i asked, "How do light bulbs work?"

For what i know, calling someone Sir or Ma'am could only be obnoxious if the person had asked to be called something else.
Emily Post gives wonderful advice on the matter, but sometimes it is hard to apply to the world as it is today.

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RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/17/2009 11:09:50 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		you are correct. continue to be respectful, and others will treat you the same.

to me the people who refuse to call another master anything but hey dude, and not address a master/dom/maam/domme by their given title only shows me their disrespect , and also the lack of self confidence. thinking something may be breached by giving a common courtesy to someone. but dammnit dont dis recpect them.

i am not ashamed to meet someone at a social event and say hello master soandso, nice to meet you. or mistress noname, a pleasure to meet you. but if they do not carry over the same courtesy, my next words may not be so nice, and it will most likely ruin any chances of me conversing.

like so many have commented, it depends on how you were raised i guess. outside world as well as our world of lifestyle activity. a little bit of manners has never been known to hurt anyone.

(in reply to lilredridingcrop)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 12:10:53 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

From my point of view, I dislike someone that isn't a friend calling Master "Sir". He's not their Sir.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

Well, I can understand manners.  But, to let you know, I don't really like when someone that's not my pet calls me "sir".  Although, I will generally let them know politely. :)


I do not understand this at all.  Or are you both meaning in a BDSM way?  Because if I do not know a male, and I need to get his attention or whatever, I am going to say, "Excuse me, sir," or "Sir, could you {get your shopping cart out of the way}."  I think that is so much more tasteful than, "Yo buddy!" 

For a female that I do not know, I use Ms. 

I just do not see why this would be something awful. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 12:55:22 AM   
Zevar


Posts: 801
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lilredridingcrop

Hello Everyone. Ok so I just had a quick question...I, out of habit, use the term "Sir" alot. I've been taught that it's manners when speaking to someone you know is a Dominant, Top, Master, or Mistress etc. to show your respect and call them Sir (or Ma'am) and if they don't approve of a sub/slave not under their protection or ownership using "Sir" (or Ma'am) they will or should let you know....Is this accurate? Or is it obnoxious that I call Doms or Dommes Sir (or Ma'am) without really knowing them?


Greetings lilredridingcrop:

Salutations such as "Sir or Ma’am" expressed in a general sense to show respect is most wise and undoubtedly polite, good manners. Otherwise however the terms are used in accordance with those who identify with BDSM and you will have to adhere to what each individual requires.

Regarding my girl, she addresses me as “Master” and when not “Master” then in those other instances it is “my Master.” The Free Woman I am acquainted with addresses me by my given birth name and in some instances out of respect in her heart that she has for me she does use the terminology of “ most kind Sir” as do I mutually respect her thus I do refer to her as “the most lovely Lady” in some instances and when not she is then addressed by her given birth name. Gorean ways are quite different than BDSM,[ at least in my household i.e. speaking for myself here.] However if I am addressed as “Sir” by others I reply accordingly.

The way I view the "salutation and title debate" is with those unknown to myself is a man who is a master is a master if he is called master by everyone he encounters or not, so it goes.

Total strangers though who tend to use slang salutations and street language that I would never consider polite even in the least, well you get what you get and roll with it when among the public these days; meaning the daily "millennium salutations" “Yo man wats up dude?“

I would gladly be addressed as “Sir” by others in the public rather than “Yo man wats up dude?“

Such is life though. Be safe!

I wish you well,
~Zevar~

(in reply to lilredridingcrop)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 1:11:17 AM   
daintydimples


Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline 		In a high protocol setting, Sir and Ma'am are required for all dominants. In my opinion, that's the only time to follow that rule. And BTW, I find cheesy online chat rooms that require high protocol laughable. But again, that's just my opinion.

It's been my experience that those who require high protocol of a submissive they do not know are either very new or Gorean (or both).






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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 3:46:43 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline 		I am one who doesn't expect it from a girl who isn't Mine.... Manners are based on far more than just whether she uses 'Sir' or not.

However neither do I find it disrespectful if they do call Me 'Sir'... if they don't know Me I assume they are feeling a little unsure of the situation and are being over careful, trying a little too hard..... if it is someone who does know Me then I take it as the respectful compliment it is meant as.

With My girl I certainly don't expect her to use Sir or 'Ma'am with random strangers. There where I few I instructed her to use it with, those I knew would talk it as a compliment of respect (Where I considered such a compliment due)... and from those she is drawn to do so because she has seen something warranting that respect.... Otherwise Dom or sub they get their name!


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And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to lilredridingcrop)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 4:51:39 AM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		Sadly i don't go to any bdsm events so i don't get to address anybody there...
In normal life i use Mr and Mrs and Miss preferably, unless they insist on first name basis...
i introduce myself as Mrs Ranja always especially over the phone

and here i will address any dominant man as Sir unless they tell me different

(in reply to lilredridingcrop)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 4:52:22 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

From my point of view, I dislike someone that isn't a friend calling Master "Sir". He's not their Sir.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

Well, I can understand manners.  But, to let you know, I don't really like when someone that's not my pet calls me "sir".  Although, I will generally let them know politely. :)


I do not understand this at all.  Or are you both meaning in a BDSM way?  Because if I do not know a male, and I need to get his attention or whatever, I am going to say, "Excuse me, sir," or "Sir, could you {get your shopping cart out of the way}."  I think that is so much more tasteful than, "Yo buddy!" 

For a female that I do not know, I use Ms. 

I just do not see why this would be something awful. 


I am with you. I have no clue why people get so upset over this. But every so often another thread pops up on the subject. For me, I have gone to long using those terms and I doubt I could change it now, even if I wanted to.

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(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 6:00:15 AM   
Aileen1968


Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline 		I called the nice old gent who pumped my gas (one of the best things about NJ is that you don't have to pump your own gas) Sir.
He then proceeded to take me into the restroom and beat me.
Should I not have called him that?????

The funny thing is....I can't call ShoreBound sir or master. I'd break out giggling so fast. He would too. He''d laugh. He doesn't giggle.
I view those terms as strictly good manners for the general public when someone you don't know has done something for you.
It's how I was raised. Thank you sir. Thank you ma'am.

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RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 7:16:40 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

From my point of view, I dislike someone that isn't a friend calling Master "Sir". He's not their Sir.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

Well, I can understand manners.  But, to let you know, I don't really like when someone that's not my pet calls me "sir".  Although, I will generally let them know politely. :)


I do not understand this at all.  Or are you both meaning in a BDSM way?  Because if I do not know a male, and I need to get his attention or whatever, I am going to say, "Excuse me, sir," or "Sir, could you {get your shopping cart out of the way}."  I think that is so much more tasteful than, "Yo buddy!" 

For a female that I do not know, I use Ms. 

I just do not see why this would be something awful. 
If someone in the grocery store said, "Excuse me Sir, I need to get by", I'm fine with that. If we're at a social and a submissive walks up to him and says, "Hello Sir", and she's not a friend....she's now stepped on my toes.

There's a large difference between the two situations in my opinion.

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(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 7:18:00 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		No, it is not obnoxious...it is civility and courtesy and nice to see.  For those who do not wish you to address them that way, try and honor their wishes as long as doing so does not infringe on your own sense of propriety.  For those who tell you they are not "your Sir or Ma'am", you can always inform them politely that you did not intend to imply that they were and that you specifically reserve "my Sir or my Ma'am" for your Sir or Ma'am.

(in reply to lilredridingcrop)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 7:29:05 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

From my point of view, I dislike someone that isn't a friend calling Master "Sir". He's not their Sir.
True...if he was, she might call him "my Sir" rather than just the civil and courteous expression of "Sir".

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 9:33:32 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
I do not understand this at all.  Or are you both meaning in a BDSM way?  Because if I do not know a male, and I need to get his attention or whatever, I am going to say, "Excuse me, sir," or "Sir, could you {get your shopping cart out of the way}."  I think that is so much more tasteful than, "Yo buddy!" 

For a female that I do not know, I use Ms. 

I just do not see why this would be something awful. 

Interestingly, I would do exactly the same thing in the grocery store. But the meaning of the words "sir" and "ma'am" is different in a grocery store than a BDSM setting. In the grocery store, it strictly means, "person whom I don't know well". God only knows what it might mean in some BDSM setting, but whatever it is, I'm staying far away from it.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 11:02:28 AM   
Viridana


Posts: 754
Status: offline 		why only using sir or maam with d-types? do the s-types not deserve the same respect? I mean... they are your equals, just like d-types who are not your specific dom. If you call my man "sir" and fail to do the same with me, just because I'm not a d-type, you definately will be cast in the obnoxious  and rude pile for both of us..... 

< Message edited by Viridana -- 9/18/2009 11:03:14 AM >

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 2:40:09 PM   
mbes


Posts: 465
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: offline 		I will gladly call anyone "sir" or "ma'am", so long as I am confident that they would be comfortable returning the favor and call me "ma'am". That is true in either world.
Some random sub calling my other half "sir" while being unwilling to call me "ma'am" will be laughed at, either at the time or later at home.
The first rule is only superceded at the wishes of my other; fortunately we generally agree on the subject.

(in reply to Viridana)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 4:18:27 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

If we're at a social and a submissive walks up to him and says, "Hello Sir", and she's not a friend....she's now stepped on my toes.

There's a large difference between the two situations in my opinion.


thats too bad really... sorry to hear that. how is a sub supposed to know a dom/domme is unapproachable? its easy for me, as a dom,,, if i see a collar, i do not approach, other than cordial social etiquette. a collared slave is an owned slave and someone elses property.

the other day someone elses slave said to me," pardon me masterbrad", i stepped asside so it could finish its task. it then said ,"thank you sir". its master, nor my slave were offended.


why are slave so often reffered to as her? i dont get that

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 4:48:21 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		not saying its right,,, but i almost expect people in the "real" world to be ill mannered and disrespectful, happens all the time. right?

but within the lifestyle, i do expect manners to be present, and i do expect better behavior from within, than what i would expect out on the street.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 6:16:04 PM   
mstrj69


Posts: 295
Joined: 5/27/2004
Status: offline 		Sir or Maam are only out of place if they tell you not to use the term. The only time I ever said anything to a potential slave was that Sir was reserved for her sir while sir could be used for any person whom she wanted to show respect to at the time. Naturally when out in public, the vanilla side do not know the difference between Sir and sir so it makes no real difference there.

(in reply to mbes)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/18/2009 6:36:09 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl
If someone in the grocery store said, "Excuse me Sir, I need to get by", I'm fine with that. If we're at a social and a submissive walks up to him and says, "Hello Sir", and she's not a friend....she's now stepped on my toes.

There's a large difference between the two situations in my opinion.


See. . . I would think that maybe she wants to make your aquaintance and is nervous about how to go about it.  Or that she has some information to impart.  Or something equally boring. 

When I have been called Ma'am by people I do not know, I just respond with my name.  No fuss. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Interestingly, I would do exactly the same thing in the grocery store. But the meaning of the words "sir" and "ma'am" is different in a grocery store than a BDSM setting. In the grocery store, it strictly means, "person whom I don't know well". God only knows what it might mean in some BDSM setting, but whatever it is, I'm staying far away from it.


I really think that it is a fear of just introducing themselves.  Many times when people are nervous they retreat into formalities.  Nothing more than that.  Personally I just take the ball by the horns and run with it and say, "Hi there!  I'm Aylee.  Pleased to meet you."  And hold out my hand for the hand-shaking part. 

It is not exactly rocket surgery. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Manners or obnoxious? - 9/19/2009 6:51:06 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

From my point of view, I dislike someone that isn't a friend calling Master "Sir". He's not their Sir.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

Well, I can understand manners.  But, to let you know, I don't really like when someone that's not my pet calls me "sir".  Although, I will generally let them know politely. :)


I do not understand this at all.  Or are you both meaning in a BDSM way?  Because if I do not know a male, and I need to get his attention or whatever, I am going to say, "Excuse me, sir," or "Sir, could you {get your shopping cart out of the way}."  I think that is so much more tasteful than, "Yo buddy!" 

For a female that I do not know, I use Ms. 

I just do not see why this would be something awful. 
If someone in the grocery store said, "Excuse me Sir, I need to get by", I'm fine with that. If we're at a social and a submissive walks up to him and says, "Hello Sir", and she's not a friend....she's now stepped on my toes.

There's a large difference between the two situations in my opinion.


What would you do if a submissive said "Excuse me Sir, I need to get by" and the stranger at the store walked up and said "Hello Sir"? What would you do if a sub walked up to you and said "Excuse me, Ma'am"?


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 40
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