Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (Full Version)

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slavejali -> Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 3:00:50 PM)

I thought of this topic because of a story i wrote about my past on here.

Not quite sure how to do links to a particular post but i think this is it if you want to read it: http:

My first marriage was abusive, physically, emotionally and mentally.

The residue it left with me and I guess part of the healing process was to hold the belief for a time that i shouldnt let anyone dominate me, and that "hitting and hurting" was abusive and shouldnt be allowed.

When I was first introduced to bdsm and Master/slave relationships, it made my head spin. Everything about this type of relationship on the surface seemed to conflict with the *barriers* i had put up around abuse. Like for years I had lived in abuse and to be healed I shouldnt be entertaining thoughts that i actually enjoyed being Dominated and struck right? If I allowed myself to believe that, then I would ahve to admit the reason I stayed with my abusive husband so long was that i actually enjoyed his treatment of me. ...and to have to admit that would mean i was a way sick puppy wouldnt it? *grin*

Entering a Master/slave relationship was a revelation to me. I came home to the fact that my innermost longing was to be dominated, to be taken control of and handled. I came home to the fact that really strong powerful men really fucking drew me to their attention.
I came home to the fact that submitting to them gave me so much pleasure. I came home to the fact that I really did have an intense desire to please my Man. I came home to the fact that I loved the sense of submission and loss of control being "hurt" gave me.

I came home to the fact that there were men out there who could provide that role for me and yet were not abusers.

It wasnt being abused that really attracted me, but the Domination and the Mastery and everything that came along with that.

I realised submission is a very powerful state of mind. I realised that this made me naturally attractive to men who desired to dominate. I realised men who desire to dominate come with all kinds of personalities, some productive and some not so productive. I realised, my submissive attractiveness wouldn't just attract amazing men who had their shit together, but any man who desired to dominate. I realised, i could choose my partner and the type of relationship i was prepared to enter. I am slave now and totally happy with my choice.

For anyone who has been in an abusive situation and then found BDSM how was the process for you in accepting your role as a submissive/slave without lingering doubts that you wre somehow just falling back into an old pattern of accepting abuse?

How did you resolve the conflict that would naturally occur within yourself?

What did you realise?




amayos -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 3:37:15 PM)

This is one of the most compelling and straightforward questions I've seen posted in these forums yet. Since the nature of your question isn't suited to me, I will simply sit back and enjoy what answers may come.

Your personal account of migrating from abuse to BDSM was a fascinating read.




KnightofMists -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 3:54:30 PM)

thank you for sharing and starting this thread. I don't have a personal understanding or experience to this issue, but I am also very interested in learning of thoughts and feelings of those that have. I can't help but wonder if the very things that has propelled you from an abusive relationship into a healthy consious D/s relationship is the very things that keeps people in healthy D/s Relationships from sinking into abusive ones.

Looking forward to more posts!




kyraofMists -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 4:22:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali

What did you realise?



Thank you for sharing your story; I very much enjoy reading your posts.

What I realized is that I submit from a position of strength and not weakness. I was not looking for a dominant to fix me. My life was wonderful and complete before I became a slave. My life as a slave is just more enriched and fulfilling. He doesn't make me who I am, he just helps me be a better me.

Knight's kyra




BeeQueen -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 4:24:12 PM)

congrats to ur strength to bee sincere

i wondered how u entered the idea of bdsm (i got the idea that u got interessted after u got seperated from ur husband?)


since most of us struggle one or the other time with our weird desires and kinks, i d guess that many ppl that run around with bdsm desires have questioned themselves and questioned their past to find what could ve possible made them what they are. especially since society doesnt easily allow anyone to bee diffrent from the mainstream.

after 10 years in an active community in vienna i have heard a many lifestories and tries to explain for what they are or want. there is as many diffrent theories as phsychologs as there is books about it too..hehehe. at least in europe there is no higher % of victims of abuse amongst the bdsm szene as there is outside of it (really shocking how many ppl -espeically woman- have to suffer mental or physical abuse in their childhood or marriage)
im not submissive but dominant but i questioned myselfe a 1000 times too. as a pacifist how can i enjoy to punish anyone? as a loving woman and mother how can i dare to beat someone, tie them, order them? why would i enjoy to wear fancy clothing and high heels?
i know that i had torture fantasies before i even was in puperty......and before my *story of abuse* started.
so yes i had my story of abuse, but no i dont think it has anything to do with my bdsm desires. it just has to do with my *phobic from relations*. i dont want to get married *shiver* and still prefer to sleep alone in my bed (long live seperated bedrooms)..

so each of us might have a story, but most likly diffrent story diffrent background and diffrent charakter dealing with the burden. thats y i dont think that it really has anything to do with bdsm - even tho there is a great chance that some ppl will follow the pattern of abuse ....just call it bdsm now.

best wishes for u
Bee




HoosierScorpio -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 4:27:51 PM)

I like your posting and I know there are allot of young ladies out there were coming from an abusive relationship. I have met some who feel this is all they know and that is what the lifestyle is about. That is far from the truth for this lifestyle is about control and abusive is about loosing control. To go from an emotional or physical abuse to giving up your control to another is going to take time. You need to get past the physical and emotional issue’s that the abuser created for you. It is going to take time and the right Master who understands well helps you through it. I am talking from my own viewpoint and experience in this lifestyle.




Jasmyn -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 4:39:14 PM)

When running a BDSM support group in Auckland, NZ a number of years ago I had the opportunity of meeting a woman with a similar history of abusive relationship/s. And likewise felt she might be one sick puppy when she longed for a similar control, even to the extent of longing the physical abuse (or at least the physical element/overpowering that maintained a sense of 'being controlled' in previous relationships).

She also held a longing for the 'alpha male' ideal and invariably applied that title to any man who was abusive and controlling of her. It was his job to control her, it was his job to make her submit, it was his job to beat her, it was his job to batter herself esteem. If he didn't do these things he wasn't living up to her 'alpha' dream. But she also realised what she was experiencing wasn't normal, wasn't healthy, and wasn't conducive to her health (especially considering a couple of hospital visits where had over the years at the hands of her partner/s).

For sometime she avoided relationships, and then in her mid 40s discovered BDSM and came to her first munch, wondering if the d/s dynamic could be a way of her getting the control she yearned for but without the abuse.

Because she discovered BDSM herself and felt this could be something where she could find her nirvana, bringing all the elements of a controllng relationship she longed for, but within negotiated limits; she didn't seem to have to many misgivings about any d/s relationship been akin to her abusive relationships of the past.

I remember her eyes lighting up as we discussed her past and considered her future. Is BDSM the answer she was seeking? Or will it leave her even more vunerable to those who seek to abuse? Will boundaries and safewords, limits and consensuality keep her safe? Is she actually submissive at core, or is she believing she is submisive because she knows no other way?

She did get into a relationship with someone she met at a munch and as far as I am aware she is still with him years down the track.




Sensualips -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 4:48:26 PM)

My sister is currently involved in an on-again off-again abusive relationship. I often marvel at the hold he has on her, that they have on each other. She is bright, strong, confident, capable -- and this is the only relationship she has been in where this has occured.

The difference from a "typical" abusive situation may be that she fights back -- hard. In fact, she typically hits first. It is an unhealthy, weird dynamic. She knows how and what to do to get out, but she ultimately chooses not to do so. She manages the relationship, distances herself, sets boundaries...but never quite shuts the door on him. I have noticed the pattern of their "incidents" and it seems to be a bizarre release type of thing in times of extreme stress. While I would never suggest she likes or deserves the violence, I have recently begun to wonder if there is something in her that is attracted to physicality and if she ever does rid herself of the man, this might be redirected in another way.




SimplyV -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 4:48:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HoosierScorpio

I like your posting and I know there are allot of young ladies out there were coming from an abusive relationship. I have met some who feel this is all they know and that is what the lifestyle is about. That is far from the truth for this lifestyle is about control and abusive is about loosing control. To go from an emotional or physical abuse to giving up your control to another is going to take time. You need to get past the physical and emotional issue’s that the abuser created for you. It is going to take time and the right Master who understands well helps you through it. I am talking from my own viewpoint and experience in this lifestyle.


There are a lot of young ladies.. and young lads.. who have come from similar backgrounds to BDSM.

Some come to BDSM because abuse is all they know. Some come to BDSM, because like Jali, they recognize within themselves that they are happiest in a particular role and want to do it without abuse, and want to enrich their lives rather than continue a cycle of destruction.

Either way... If it makes you happy. If it makes you into a better person. Then you must be doing something right.

Jali - always love your posts. [:)]

V




SimplyV -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 4:54:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sensualips

My sister is currently involved in an on-again off-again abusive relationship. I often marvel at the hold he has on her, that they have on each other. She is bright, strong, confident, capable -- and this is the only relationship she has been in where this has occured.

The difference from a "typical" abusive situation may be that she fights back -- hard. In fact, she typically hits first. It is an unhealthy, weird dynamic. She knows how and what to do to get out, but she ultimately chooses not to do so. She manages the relationship, distances herself, sets boundaries...but never quite shuts the door on him. I have noticed the pattern of their "incidents" and it seems to be a bizarre release type of thing in times of extreme stress. While I would never suggest she likes or deserves the violence, I have recently begun to wonder if there is something in her that is attracted to physicality and if she ever does rid herself of the man, this might be redirected in another way.


*giggles evilly* I'd be tempted to give her the "BDSM for Dummies" book, and say.. well since you seem to like a good beating, why don't read up on it.

But then.. I've never been known to keep my mouth shut.




Submotive -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 5:05:39 PM)

Thank you slavejali for your courage in posting this. Although i didn't experience tremendous physical abuse, i did contend with intense psychological "mind fucking", not the kind that's fun, the kind that really makes one feel totally and completely crappy about onself.

As a result of this, i too questioned my submissive desires and thought that i was going to be further damaging myself. But oddly enough, i'm finding the total opposite. Of course, i've been very careful about who i got involved with; and have been very fortunate too. For me submission is extremely healing. Learning that i can trust Another with my innermost needs and desires - offer them to Him and allow Him to decide how, if, and when they will be met is completely satisfying.

For years i built up hard walls around me, attempting to protect myself from hurt. But it's only in allowing the walls to come down that the wounds are being healed. i believe having the choice to submit is a great factor as well. i am conscious of my needs and desires rather than unconscious. i think when our desires are hidden, that's when we find ourselves in really harmful situations.




Sensualips -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 5:17:32 PM)

quote:

I'd be tempted to give her the "BDSM for Dummies" book,


We actually had a lengthy discussion once, regarding my s/D couple friends and the nature of their relationship. She was appalled and stated, "Whatever works for them, but I could never do that. No way I could put up with that type of situation." Umm...oh-kay.




slavejali -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 5:45:52 PM)

Thanks to everyone who is *submitting* contributions to this *grin* (im so funny)..seriously..thanks

quote:

i wondered how u entered the idea of bdsm (i got the idea that u got interested after u got seperated from ur husband?)


I was introduced to the idea by my first Master who I met at a purely vanilla occasion ..going to see phantom of the opera actually lol

This topic made me think of something else, bit off topic but hey: Due to circumstances in my childhood I was made a ward of the state, I would be visited by one of their officers a few times of year to see how I was doing etc with the family I was living with. Years later when I wanted to do some research on myself I accessed those files that were made on me. There were whole pages of information on my relationship with my soon to be husband they had made. Concerns expressed over the hold and control he had over me....funny they never mentioned anything at the time, but I dont think I would have listened anyway, even if they had.

They even had my statements in there of how scared i was when i had fallen pregnant and that he had told me if i left him he would pay men to say i was a prostitute and take my baby away from me, or plant drugs on me and have me arrested so i would go to jail.

I wonder if the child authorities have more power these days than they did back then.





slaveladyj -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 8:09:35 PM)

I'll answer from experience. I knew before my marriage that I wanted to be dominated, but definitely not abused. There is a big difference as I'm sure any abused woman would tell you. An abusive spouse does more than beat a woman, or belittle them, and generally because they are frighten of the woman's intelligence or income. They are afraid if they don't take control by keeping the woman down, the woman will see their shortcomings and leave them. For a woman, even one like us, who want to be dominated, there is a difference between this and being in fear of you life. And most women who are abused live in fear, don't think submissive women do. Couldn't swear to that as I don't get the real time aspect of it.
My first marriage was a nightmare. As I've mentioned before I'm a take charge type of person, and for my ex, that was good, until he couldn't have something he wanted, not needed wanted. Something that if we bought it would take food from our children's mouths. To get his way, he would beat me, after nearly killing me twice, I wised up and moved out with three small children. That was not the kind of domination I wanted or needed.
You asked how you go from one to the other? For me personally, the need to serve, to be dominated shows a depth of caring from both parties. The submissive to give to her master, the master to take care of his submissive in what ever way she needs. This does not include stabbing her. I want to serve my man and have him appreciate it. Yes, I enjoyed pain and torture but with a certain sexual overtone to it. Not having knifes thrown at me in a fit of anger.
Hell, maybe I can't explain it, I just know that for me there is a big difference.




OscarHargraves -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 8:51:10 PM)

Slavejali this is one of the best (and most informative) posts I've seen in a long time.

I can't even imagine how hard it must be for a woman who has been abused to reconcile her desires to be submissve. That must take an incredible amount of strength and mental fortitude.

I do know that there is a very thin line between a strict Master and an abuser. Being able to walk that line and recognize the difference is what seperates the two and is probably one of the hardest things that a man can do. For a real Dom/Master this has become easy and his ability to truly CARE for his Sub/Slave is the anchor that he uses in reality. The problem is that there are so many men who don't have that anchor and can slip further and further into their sadistic selves until they become dangerous abusers. I guess the hardest thing for a submissive woman to do is to recognize whether a guy is a Dominant or just plain abusive.

Thanks again for your post. I know it couldn't be easy reliving some of that while you wrote it.




ownedgirlie -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 8:53:41 PM)

Damn slavejali, you ask the hard questions! i hesitated whether to write to it, because i tend to be so private...but..... ~deep breath in~ here goes (and forgive me for being so winded):

i grew up in an abusive environment. Physically, mentally, emotionally. Love was conditional. In short, we were not loved if we were not pleasing. End of story. This meant being completely ignored for days at a time. This meant lots of welts from the belt, and sometimes the buckle side. Lots of hits to the face. Lots of "solitary confinement." lol i recall even being tied to my bed at naptime so i would stay put. How's THAT for conditioning??

Serious punishment if caught masterbating. A woman's body was dirty.

Whether related or not, i had fantasies of being dominated from before puberty also. i thought i was a freak. i kept them to myself.

Two childhood molestations. One was by a neighbor and so poorly handled by my parents that THEY did more damage than the actual act. It was difficult though, 8 years old, being handled by an adult, knowing he should not be but "obey your elders" being so drilled into my head i could not say no. The second was from a family member so i damn sure wasn't going to speak up.

Was attracted to men who liked to take over. Most were unhealthy relationships, where i did what i felt i needed, to get attention and approval. Most left me feeling empty.

Married a man...a nice man. He was so kind, so FUNNY, so charming. Accepted me for me. Thought i was wonderful. Constantly told me how beautiful, how smart, how loving, how terrific i was. He wasn't interested in me for sex. In fact, he wasn't all that interested in sex. Go figure - i could be loved without sex. So i married him.

But he still didn't want sex. And once we were in the same house, i fell off my pedestal. Landed hard. He saw imperfections. A perfectionist does not like imperfections. He would point them out. To help. Constantly. i would try harder. He deserved it, after all, because he loved me unconditionally....right? Damn, but i kept failing. i would have to explain myself to someone who did not understand imperfection, and pains, and baggage. Sometimes i would have to explain all night, until morning, not allowed sleep, because i wasn't explaining well enough.

i wasn't allowed children, because he did not trust me as a mother. i wasn't allowed sex, because i did not behave in a way that was appealing. i was not allowed to self please, because that took something away from him. i was not allowed friends, because they imposed on his time. i was not allowed a pet, because it would distract me from him. i wasn't allowed to be tired, it annoyed him. He didn't like the way i breathed at night either. He didn't like the way i handled myself at work, or the way i managed our money, or the way i conversed with my family.

All this...gradually...over time...chipping and chipping away.

i had no outlet.

i began exploring online. Just surfing around, no harm done. The computer was my only friend, after all. i discovered chat rooms...and D/s - wow there was a NAME to what i felt...maybe i wasn't such a freak of nature...Talked to some interesting people. Talked to a Dom. A lot. Talked to him on the phone. He helped me touch myself for the first time since childhood. He thought i was a pretty good person. He liked that i was imperfect. we never met in person, just talked. Told husband about it. He went kind of crazy and wouldn't allow me at the computer anymore. He told me i had been brainwashed, to think like this.

i believed him.

But...damn if i wasn't compelled....a year later...to look back online again. Just once in awhile. From work only. i found i could get attention - empty attention but attention. It always hurt later. i was lied to a lot. i was rejected a lot. i met someone real time though. i hid it from my husband though. i met this guy, he was handsome and sexy and dominant. He liked to toy with me. we never did have sex. He thought it was fun to say i didn't deserve to see him. He liked to tell me how bad a submissive i was, and that i couldn't please anybody. After four months of him confirming everything my husband, and even my parents, ever taught me, i realized how little value i really had. i slinked away from that Dom because i couldn't take any more emotional beatings.

i hung out in a chat room with friends. i wasn't going to even talk to another man ever again. i didn't need any more confirmation of how bad i was. But someone IM'd me, out of the blue, and in my cynical state, i was pretty snide in my replies. But....he captivated me.

i since learned my worth as a person, a woman, a slave. i left my husband, who still does not understand why. i found myself again, and found my strength. i learned that what i have needed was to submit, yes, but that submission - when in capable hands - brings so much back in return. Through submitting the "right way" (and by this i mean not in an abusive environment), i found myself...my strength...my courage...my value. There is such freedom in the boundaries set for me. All those walls, developed over the years, began to crumble, and reveal the core that is me.

i was able to face my abuse with him. A belt is only evil in the wrong hands. A slap in the face only hurts when intended to hurt. And so on. i found myself looking and begging for the next demon to take on, until i faced all of them, cleansing myself of the pains i was carrying.

So there it is. And here i was just going to come to these boards to observe and not get involved.




slavejali -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 9:31:38 PM)

Thankyou for sharing ownedgirlie and slaveladyj. One of the reasons I started this thread is that I thought it might be helpful to other women, if they heard stories from people who had been through it and come out the other end.

I love Master/slave relationships, if they didnt exist, I dont know what women like us would do,......i guess...either get involved in abusive relationships, or simply be in no relationship at all.

quote:

I know it couldn't be easy reliving some of that while you wrote it.


Thanks for your post Sir. To tell the truth, my post was really easy to write. It was a long time ago now, and that part of my life almost seems like it happened to another person now, "Im a changed woman" *grin* I did have a little niggle though when I started thinking about the baby. (We wont go there) hehe

During the process of transition though, you are right, there were some really hard times.




mnottertail -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 9:57:14 PM)

This is kinda something; but yet, not something.

Many things can be satisfied with a blowjob.....that is no more than life.

What is the difference between a strong man and an abusive man?

Knowing why you are being hit?
Or knowing why you should be, but were'nt?
Or hitting you and then having a long discussion about why that had to be?
Or never hitting you and telling you why you should have been?

Or????????

Or????????
Ron




ownedgirlie -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 10:00:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

This is kinda something; but yet, not something.

Many things can be satisfied with a blowjob.....that is no more than life.

What is the difference between a strong man and an abusive man?

Knowing why you are being hit?
Or knowing why you should be, but were'nt?
Or hitting you and then having a long discussion about why that had to be?
Or never hitting you and telling you why you should have been?

Or????????

Or????????
Ron


Intention




mnottertail -> RE: Going from abuse to conscious slavery/submission (2/28/2006 10:09:39 PM)

Real hard to tell intention, Eh WOT?




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