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someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/20/2009 10:59:42 PM

sravaka

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
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Taxonomy.... I think we all do it to some extent when we sort through our various interlocutors here (or wherever). *This* type of sub/dom vs. *that* type of sub/dom (or switch, or top, or bottom, or whatever.)

I spend a lot more time classifying and analyzing dominants (like so many butterflies pinned in a box? well, no, but the image is sort of amusing) than I do submissives, given that I am a sub seeking a dom.... but someone I was speaking to recently divided the universe of submissives into three, and caused me thereby to ponder where i fit into others' taxonomies, and/or what possible taxonomies of subs there are.

In his view there are 1) subs who are motivated by desire to please, 2) subs who are motivated by a desire to obey, 3) subs who simply react to a dominant presence. Obviously, there is considerable overlap, esp. in a full-blown, ongoing relationship. You can obey because you want to please or attempt to please because you want to obey. You may react to a dominant presence by obeying and/or attempting to please. You may become so keyed to your dominant that you simply react obediently or pleasingly to his presence. But unless I'm mistaken, he was suggesting that, at the core, prior to a relationship, there is generally a tendency in one or the other of these three directions.

I wonder.... does this resonate for anyone? If you are sub: do you feel you fit into one of these categories? Or some other category? If you are dom: do you divide up the universe of submissives similarly or in some other way, for the sake of sorting out what it is that you want?

Grateful for any/all responses.

_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

Post #: 1

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 1:26:17 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

In his view there are 1) subs who are motivated by desire to please, 2) subs who are motivated by a desire to obey, 3) subs who simply react to a dominant presence.

The distinction between the first two resonate with me.

quote:

If you are dom: do you divide up the universe of submissives similarly or in some other way, for the sake of sorting out what it is that you want?

Yes, for the most part. But, in the end, I do as I am lead and that might be to take on someone who obeys through a need to please.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 2

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 3:26:38 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

quote:

does this resonate for anyone? If you are sub: do you feel you fit into one of these categories? Or some other category?

No it doesn't resonate at all for me.

I belong to the classification of human heterosexual female who just happens to enjoy being in a relationship with a dominant personality human male.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 3

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 5:00:26 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

The three divisions I've seen are:
1) service oriented
2) obedience wired
3) in this for emotional transparency

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to littlewonder)

Post #: 4

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 5:32:34 AM

blackpearl81

Posts: 506
Joined: 8/30/2005
From: Home of the Yankees
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

The three divisions I've seen are:
1) service oriented
2) obedience wired
3) in this for emotional transparency

Emotional transparency? Can you explain what that is please?

_____________________________

~ Karma. Being a motherfucker since 1981 ~

Ms. Pacman was the greatest prostitute that ever lived. For 25 cents, that bitch swallowed balls 'till she died.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 5

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 6:43:31 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

In the end, us humans classify and sort things... it's how brains work. To some extent, I think everyone does this. Some just bring a bit more passion to it than others.

For me in particular, I used to think in pretty elaborate terms about types of subs. In the end, though, what I figured out is that the motivations for submission are just way too varied to ever put into some sort of a/b/c format. So I ended up with just two broad groups... bedroom only / lifestyle. I see those as such wildly different animals that using the same word for both is ridiculous. But beyond that, the why's and wherefors of that choice are just plain complicated. The particular taxonomy presented here makes no sense whatsoever to me. No other taxonomy I could come up with made any sense either when I actually tried to apply it.

Carol is strongly motivated by 1 & 3, along with a hodgepodge of other things such as Des' "emotional transparency" one.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 6

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 7:08:01 AM

rideemwet

Posts: 93
Joined: 6/12/2009
Status: offline

I'd be inclined to agree with Jeff, the variations are pretty hard to fit into simple categories.

The delineation that I tend to focus on is that some subs will come across as generally deferential in most situations, whereas others are only show signs of submissiveness to someone they're secure/comfortable with.

_____________________________

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

Huh?

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 7

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 8:06:35 AM

OrionAndi

Posts: 73
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline

Edit: Oh no!!! I just wrote out my long winding thoughts and its GONE.. *cries* Arrrrrgh. Gutted.

Andi x

< Message edited by OrionAndi -- 9/21/2009 8:08:55 AM >

(in reply to rideemwet)

Post #: 8

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 8:17:01 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

I wonder.... does this resonate for anyone? If you are sub: do you feel you fit into one of these categories? Or some other category? If you are dom: do you divide up the universe of submissives similarly or in some other way, for the sake of sorting out what it is that you want?

none of them do. my submission comes from a different place. it is an avenue i've chosen for self betterment. much akin to my own personal zen. i'm obedient because being so requires great self-control and self-mastery, two things i'm working ardently towards. a presence isn't required for adherence, though it is a motivating factor. i don't require micromanagement and one of the hallmarks of slavery is self-policing. the desire to please comes from the understanding of sacrifice and selflessness, which inspires an ability to see others' needs outside of myself. life isn't always about y.o.u., but in many respects it is about a larger you called us.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 9

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 8:21:44 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
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There are only two categories that actually mean something..... compatible and not compatible. Like #1-3 above, I require her to be drawn to both please and obey Me because she reacts to My presence.... Just because she doesn't react to Grand Lord Dickless the Uberdomly doesn't factor into it..... that chemistry and spark of Dynamic is individual to the people concerned.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to OrionAndi)

Post #: 10

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 8:33:17 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline

I do have a desire to please, also to obey... but not just any order... i am no robot...
just the other day i said to my Husband: "well, if you can't be bothered to order me about... maybe i can't be bothered to do my chores".... obviously i react to a dominant presence... not necessarily in a good way though... it all depends who and how the dominant presence is.

I am primarily in it for the sex and the fun... oh and i like housework...

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 11

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 8:38:47 AM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

In his view there are 1) subs who are motivated by desire to please, 2) subs who are motivated by a desire to obey, 3) subs who simply react to a dominant presence. Obviously, there is considerable overlap, esp. in a full-blown, ongoing relationship.

I'm motivated by a desire to please, to obey, and I react to HIS Dominant presence. I don't react strongly to just any Dominant presence, although I will respect them. It has to be the right One for me strongly react....in a word HIS. So anyway, to try & put it in a nutshell, I would say I'm motivated to please, because included IN that is also a desire to obey and to react to His presence.....all three please Him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

Just because she doesn't react to Grand Lord Dickless the Uberdomly doesn't factor into it.

hahahaha I'm laughing my ass off here. Too funny!! I love that, and that's just what I was saying about "It has to be the right One....."

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 12

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 8:40:45 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: blackpearl81
Emotional transparency? Can you explain what that is please?

Someone who is obedience wired will do what is ordered even if she hates it, without showing the fact that she hates it. Because she gets off more on obedience then on her own emotions being known.

I'm not, I need to be fully known, fully vulnerable to someone who wants to know all of me. Obviously if there's an order that upsets me and I show it/share it, then he's likely to change it. Not because he allows me to tftb but because if there's a great deal of resentment building up from these types of orders I will close off, not share how I feel, not want to be with him all the time. Since he doesn't want me closing myself off from him, he corrects things so that I am always without conflict in my love for him.

Since for him, this is what he wants also, it works for us. We're compatible this way. He gets off on the energy I give, if I'm closed off there's no energy coming from me so he stops enjoying it also.

This is one reason I am not compatible with sadists, because they would enjoy putting me into a conflicted place, they would enjoy me resenting/hating them. But whereas a masochist or obedience wired person can separate what happens in play to afterwards, I can't and it would carry over.

Hope this helps as an explanation, reading it over it appears 'clear as mud'.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to blackpearl81)

Post #: 13

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 8:41:28 AM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

oh and i like housework...

Oh wow! I thought I was some kind of freak. I love housework TOO!

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to ranja)

Post #: 14

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 8:54:48 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

oh and i like housework...

Oh wow! I thought I was some kind of freak. I love housework TOO!

Count My girl in there too... one of her 'complaints' about Me is that I don't create enough mess for her to clean up after Me

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

Post #: 15

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 9:16:29 AM

OrionAndi

Posts: 73
Joined: 9/18/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

oh and i like housework...

Oh wow! I thought I was some kind of freak. I love housework TOO!

You know what, I think once we start living together im getting quite into the idea of being given chores ect. I do love house work but have no motivation to do it, and that is what i crave most being able to up keep a beautiful house for my future husband for myself and my child. I think he may quite like the idea of that too.

Going back to the OP, We are both more into it for the sex fun and games. In our day to day life we are equals in our relationship as a whole. For me its a number of things. When we get into our role as D/s I have a sudden emotional switch that turns on, him going into his more Dominant role gives me a massive rush and its an incredible turn on that sends me into a completley different mind set. I think for me it delves much deeper than wanting to please/obey him. It is sumwhat but more .. i know, a motivational thing to reach new levels. It is for him but I am also doing it for myself in a way.

Its all very exciting for me and I want to be the best I can be.

In real life so to speak im much more head strong, stuborn ect and its a breathe of fresh air when i delve into my more submissive side,that i know has always been there but never come out until now.

Does that make sense? Does it even give answer? I dont know. Im still learning

(in reply to sweetsub1957)

Post #: 16

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 9:28:01 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

...If you are sub: do you feel you fit into one of these categories? Or some other category?...

submissive is this slave's default state in reaction to the world around her.

it isn't earned by another, inspired by a dominant presesence, motivated by a desire to please or obey, or a choice this slave makes.

it simply is just the way this slave is.

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 17

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 9:57:27 AM

Bella1965

Posts: 285
Joined: 12/12/2006
From: NYC
Status: offline

G'afternoon all:

Slight thread hijack here:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
This is one reason I am not compatible with sadists, because they would enjoy putting me into a conflicted place, they would enjoy me resenting/hating them. But whereas a masochist or obedience wired person can separate what happens in play to afterward, I can't and it would carry over.

Not every sadist thinks this way and it's an over generalization for you to assume what goes on in the mind of sadists. This may relate to your personal experiences and if so, your post should reflect that. Some of us evil fuckers just get off on the cruelty, the pain we inflict for it's own sake. It's amusing as hell to me. It's also too broad of a statement to paint all masochists or obedience wired individuals in the same stroke. They may not react in the methods you describe. For whatever you hold holy? Don't attribute your personal experiences to the masses.

Hijack over. Feel free to resume your normally scheduled thread.

Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ others...

Bella

_____________________________

Life shouldn't be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly shouting..."Wow! What a ride!

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 18

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 10:07:36 AM

slaveToKnight

Posts: 100
Joined: 8/2/2009
Status: offline

I would say all 3 now that I have my Master. I know the right one in my life changed it, before I wasn't 1 nor 2.

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 19

RE: someone else's taxonomy of subs - 9/21/2009 10:27:39 AM

oceanwyndsLoves

Posts: 44
Joined: 9/15/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

I wonder.... does this resonate for anyone? If you are sub: do you feel you fit into one of these categories? Or some other category? If you are dom: do you divide up the universe of submissives similarly or in some other way, for the sake of sorting out what it is that you want?

none of them do. my submission comes from a different place. it is an avenue i've chosen for self betterment. much akin to my own personal zen. i'm obedient because being so requires great self-control and self-mastery, two things i'm working ardently towards. a presence isn't required for adherence, though it is a motivating factor. i don't require micromanagement and one of the hallmarks of slavery is self-policing. the desire to please comes from the understanding of sacrifice and selflessness, which inspires an ability to see others' needs outside of myself. life isn't always about y.o.u., but in many respects it is about a larger you called us.

porcelaine

Hi porcelaine
I really like your comment and find it also fitting to who I am.
oceanwynds

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 20

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