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Prosecute the employers, with heavy, million dollar fines and arrest the owner/operators and the illegals will leave on their own.

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Arpig, I think you're being short sighted on the one for one deportation thing.

If you make it a one for one thing then the people trying to legally get in are going to exert pressure to get the illegals caught and deported so they can move forward in line.

Back of the line laws would make it less attractive to be the illegal. It's not going to solve the entire problem but the thing is you can't continue to make it more attractive to come illegally than it is to come legally. I'm not adverse to making the legal immigration system better or even looser and easier to navigate.

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

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Prosecute the employers, with heavy, million dollar fines and arrest the owner/operators and the illegals will leave on their own.

Not bloody likely. There aren't enough law enforcement people to prosecute all those who hire illegals. There's too many of them, its akin to trying to bust all pot smokers...just too fucking many of them. The time for plans such as yours or Archer's was decades ago, now its too late

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

I have always wondered what the opponents of an amnesty propose be done about the problem. You can't just round them up and ship them home, there isn't enough law enforcement types or the infrastructure to do it, I mean there's some 12 million or so of them by some claims. Where are you going to put them all while you wait for seats on planes to send them home?And what do you do about their children who were born in the US...they are citizens are they not? Do they get deported along with their parents? What about their civil rights, among which surely is the right to live in the US? And what about the huge bureaucracy that will have to be established to investigate each case to determine the legal status of each prospective deportee?  And what about the rights of those who will be swept up by accident...legal residents, hispanics whose families have lived in the south west since before it was part of the US...how many of them carry proof of citizenship? Do you really want the INS to have the power to demand that anybody they want having to show their "papers"? If you think the Patriot Act was the underpinning of a police state you ain't seen nothing yet...once they start rounding up illegals, then every single one of you had better make sure you have your proof of citizenship on you at all times, and be ready to produce it on demand to prove you have a right to be in the US.

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ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Yeah... how DARE Obama suggest we create a "path to citizenship" for the 12,000,000 illegal immagrants in this country. To make them legal, and thus have taxable incomes, be a part of our legal system, and to be able to contribute by joining the military, or being able to enter the mainstream economy?

Yup. How DARE he!

(whispers from off screen)
What? It was something Bush proposed and pushed for? Really?
(whispers)
Well crap!

Still, how DARE he! Grrrrrrr.....!

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ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Yeah... how DARE Obama suggest we create a "path to citizenship" for the 12,000,000 illegal immagrants in this country. To make them legal, and thus have taxable incomes (less than 5% of illegals work in jobs wherein which they're paid cash...ergo, their incomes are entirely and fully taxable, with the same amount sent to the IRS every week as every red blooded, flag waving American.  Ironically, these same illegals {because they're all using the exact same social security number as the other 11,999,999 illegals} will never be able to withdraw a single penny of it {including social security benefits}, which by the way, combined, is in the upper end of a half trillion dollars annually....which is exactly why you'll never see our govt. pursue any kind of amnesty....they'd lose a whooooole lot of free money).

.....be a part of our legal system (which they indeed already are.  Nothing in our legal system will ever stop anyone, here or otherwise, with the sole exception of property rights issues, from pursuing a legal claim).

......and to be able to contribute by joining the military (ANY person above and below proscribed ages, can at any time join our military....in fact, it is one of very few authorized ways an illegal can gain US citizenship).

....or being able to enter the mainstream economy? (I hate to be the one to tell you but....they're not only already in the mainstream....take a good look at any retail packaging, signs in most large cities, instructions in any school.  They ARE the mainstream).

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ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

I have always wondered what the opponents of an amnesty propose be done about the problem. You can't just round them up and ship them home, there isn't enough law enforcement types or the infrastructure to do it, I mean there's some 12 million or so of them by some claims. Where are you going to put them all while you wait for seats on planes to send them home?And what do you do about their children who were born in the US...they are citizens are they not? Do they get deported along with their parents? What about their civil rights, among which surely is the right to live in the US? And what about the huge bureaucracy that will have to be established to investigate each case to determine the legal status of each prospective deportee?  And what about the rights of those who will be swept up by accident...legal residents, hispanics whose families have lived in the south west since before it was part of the US...how many of them carry proof of citizenship? Do you really want the INS to have the power to demand that anybody they want having to show their "papers"? If you think the Patriot Act was the underpinning of a police state you ain't seen nothing yet...once they start rounding up illegals, then every single one of you had better make sure you have your proof of citizenship on you at all times, and be ready to produce it on demand to prove you have a right to be in the US.

History shows us that they can be rounded up and shipped home. Google for "operation wetback" to pull up information about one such occurrence of this during the Eisenhower administration.

Uncle Nasty

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Hmmmmmm.....(kinda seems to me, considering we have 12 million of them....it wasn't all that effective).
ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Hmmmmmm.....(kinda seems to me, considering we have 12 million of them....it wasn't all that effective).

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ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

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Hmmmmmm.....(kinda seems to me, considering we have 12 million of them....it wasn't all that effective).
ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Hmmmmmm.....(kinda seems to me, considering we have 12 million of them....it wasn't all that effective).

How about this...we round up all 12,000,000 of the little buggers and give them jobs digging a deep trench along the border. Eventually, they will get deep enough that we can blast north America free from Mexico entirely. Then, every illegal on our side gets a chance at legal immigrant status, everyone on the other sides gets to wave bye-bye. In one fell swoop we've cut our illegal alien population in half and continental drift will make it harder sneak in. Then the only two questions will be a) do we want to take Texas with us or leave it with them? and 2) What do we do about those pesky Canadians?

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

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Prosecute the employers, with heavy, million dollar fines and arrest the owner/operators and the illegals will leave on their own.

Not bloody likely. There aren't enough law enforcement people to prosecute all those who hire illegals. There's too many of them, its akin to trying to bust all pot smokers...just too fucking many of them. The time for plans such as yours or Archer's was decades ago, now its too late

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It hasn't been tried.

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So when they make them all legal, and the workers start demanding at least minimum wage, what are the companies going to do? Pay them more or fire them and hire new illegals for next to nothing?
ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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History shows us that they can be rounded up and shipped home. Google for "operation wetback" to pull up information about one such occurrence of this during the Eisenhower administration.

Uncle Nasty

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Note that general amnesty or "making the illegals legal" has been done before.

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ORIGINAL: Arpig

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Note that general amnesty or "making the illegals legal" has been done before.

When? I tried looking it up but found nothing about previous amnesties.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
Of course, maybe you don't believe that this is technically lying ...

You know ... no illegal immigrants will be given health coverage - because we'll simply do away with the "illegal" part of the classification.

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ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

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So when they make them all legal, and the workers start demanding at least minimum wage, what are the companies going to do? Pay them more or fire them and hire new illegals for next to nothing?
ORIGINAL: thishereboi

The problem is, it's a lot easier to blame, arrest and vilify a bunch of bottom of the economic ladder illegal immigrants than the captains of industry that are making money off their cheap labor. Of course the way to stop illegal immigration is to dry up the jobs. But getting the government to start at the top is a pipedream.

Just remember, if they were to fine the team owners a million dollars every time one of their players tested positive, there would be no steroid use in major league baseball within a month.